AHC: Prevent The Decline Of Canada's Millitary Equipment Post WWII

So was reading some articles on Canada Military and the slow decline in keeping up to date military equipment and vehicles (example is the thirty year program that the government is doing get the Navy some new ships, but most people saying it should have been done 10-20 years ago.)

So your challenge is to change it so that while Canada military would defently decrease to a degree after the war, it's equipment remains up to date and decently numbered so that while the US would still remain a big factor in tangling with the country, Canada's own teeth would have a decent bit of their own-especially if buying time for US/Nato backup (example, some people were thinking that Canada would have a somewhat hard time stalling a county like Russia in artic waters until us backup could arrive in its current state.)

The most likely push would be aggressive Soviet conventional activity in/around Canada shortly after WWII -- naval incursions, air penetrations, harassing Canadian ships, etc. The Soviets might have been hard-pressed to do some of that right after WWII, but they could have done more and focused of it near Canada.

To be effective/threatening, this might imply the Soviets build arctic-capable subs and/or long-range bombers (and aerial refueling) sooner.

IOTL Canada didn't see a strong conventional threat and, instead, focused much of effort on nuclear defense. In fact, the US did likewise -- our conventional forces declining after WWII until Korea taught us that a nuclear deterrent isn't enough unless you can realistically use it against any threat.

Ganon said:

So was reading some articles on Canada Military and the slow decline in keeping up to date military equipment and vehicles (example is the thirty year program that the government is doing get the Navy some new ships, but most people saying it should have been done 10-20 years ago.)

So your challenge is to change it so that while Canada military would defently decrease to a degree after the war, it's equipment remains up to date and decently numbered so that while the US would still remain a big factor in tangling with the country, Canada's own teeth would have a decent bit of their own-especially if buying time for US/Nato backup (example, some people were thinking that Canada would have a somewhat hard time stalling a county like Russia in artic waters until us backup could arrive in its current state.)

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With threats of Russian incursions into Canadian territory, Canadian factories could continue to build on expertise developed during WW2.

The Canadian Navy could build a few more corvettes and frigates, but far more stable and capable than WW2 corvettes. Maybe catamaran corvettes?
Forget about hydrofoils (HMCS Brador) because the materials technology was not mature enough until well after the 1960s.

As soon as turbine-powered helicopters came on line, the RCN would be wise to abandon the escort carrier role.

deHavilland could develop a Super Mosquito to provide short-term interceptor capabilities. In the long run, the RCAF would need long-range interceptors like the CF-100 Marks 5 and Mark 6.
The RCAF would be wise to wait until the early 1960s before developing the CF-105 Arrow, until 5,000 psi hydraulic technology had matured.

The Canadian Army could start by bringing home all their deep-dish helmets and Sherman Firefly tanks. Adopt the Centurion as son as it became available with diesel engines. Build on their APC expertese by converting a bunch of 105 SP guns (Sherman hull) to APCs with rear ramps. Standardize on American 105 mm howitzers immediately after WW2. Next issue Garand rifles immediately after WW2. Adopt the Sterling SMG much sooner. Adopt the FN MAG during the 1970s.

Have some of the early Norad stuff go a bit off, with US servicemen 'joking' about Canadas claim to the Arctic. Maybe have a US president issue a 'US personnel only' rule at DEW line stations. Anyway, something that gets the Canadian government and people far less complacent - realizing that if the US is responisible for all the defence up there, that Canada can get shoved out.

So Canada starts investing in High Arctic military bases, builds some major ice breakers, and buys three AIP (probably nuke) attack subs to patrol under the ice and in the North Atlantic and North Pacific.

This is not a post-1900 POD, but what if Russia does not sell Alaska in 1867? This could either end in Britain taking Alaska by force, or Russia keeping it and thus allowing a large border for the Canadians to guard.

They could get more funding

Drewbdu said:

This is not a post-1900 POD, but what if Russia does not sell Alaska in 1867? This could either end in Britain taking Alaska by force, or Russia keeping it and thus allowing a large border for the Canadians to guard.

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With the Yukon border as the front-line against communism, it would give the Canadian Army the focus they lacked during OTL Cold War. The Canadian Army would develop decent artic clothing, snowshoes, toboggans, free-fall cylinders, snow-mobiles, etc. decades earlier than OTL. Canadian soldiers stationed in the Yukon could be re-supplied in-expensively by rail. The US Army Corps of Engineers might be willing to send a few thousand black engineers to help build a highway to the Yukon. Airfields would sprout in the Yukon, Northern British Columbia and Northern Alberta. The RCAF would return to its "bush pilot" origins, while also stationing radar and interceptors in the Yukon. The Royal Canadian Navy would de-comission fewer ships at the end of WW2. Kittimat and Bella Colla would become major naval ports.

I feel like Alaska would be seized by either Canada or the United States at the Russian Revolution. All the more reason for the Soviets to be even more hostile and drive up the arms race, really.

Dathi THorfinnsson said:

Have some of the early Norad stuff go a bit off, with US servicemen 'joking' about Canadas claim to the Arctic. Maybe have a US president issue a 'US personnel only' rule at DEW line stations. Anyway, something that gets the Canadian government and people far less complacent - realizing that if the US is responisible for all the defence up there, that Canada can get shoved out.

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The Canadian government required the United States to sign several protocols concerning its activities in the Arctic as part of the agreement for the funding, construction, maintenance, and operation of the DEW Line. There may be the issues between Canada and the United States concerning Arctic waters, but doing the same thing on land would be disastrous. Canada was concerned about symbolically loosing sovereignty as it was, and such actions would make Canada fear losing legal sovereignty as well.

Depends on the POD. After the war, you could make politics demand it, but as the post-war era saw Canada more concerned with restoring its prosperity than maintaining its armed forces capability, that gets tricky. The Russian Revolution would almost certainly see Canada or the United States (probably Canada) annex Alaska with the fear of the Red Scare, so I don't know how well that angle works. What might work is having the United States return to isolationism after WWII, thus forcing Europe (and Britain's colonial sons, including Canada) to assume the defense against the USSR. No sure how plausible that would be, though.

Have Canadian Pacific Shops make frontline tanks thru WWII, and afterwards.

Say besides the Valentines and the few Rams, they make the T22 Medium tank.

Chrysler made these prototypes in June 1943, from a September 1942 request from Armored Force, while GM made the similar T20

This was pretty much a M4 in a low profile hull, Ford V8 and Cletrac differential, and an early form of HVSS suspension, and a 76mm gun



Now OTL Chrysler did not continue with it, as it didn't give much more than a standard Sherman, and the US drifted off to trying autoloaders, torsionbars, electric and hydromatic drive, looking for the 'perfect' medium tank for 1945(Pershing), rather than making one that is 'good enough' in 1943

But the T22 would be much better than a Ram, and could use many of the same components, like transmission, final drive, roadwheels,tracks all all pretty much unchanged from the Ram

So the Canadians make a frontline tank, in effect an better Sherman, and only to improve on that during 1944 by gaining the 17 pdr and wider tracks

They end the war with a good rep, having an effective cannon, great reliability, and no 'Ronson' rep, as had better ammo storage and electric, rather than the hydraulic that was a cause of many M4s brewing up quickly.

They continue to make this model postwar, as is cheap, effective, and attractive to those in the Sterling area.

In the Korean Conflict, upgraded with the 20 pdr, proved as effective as the heavier Centurion and Pershing Tanks, which helped export sales around the world, where nations would rather buy these rather than the rebuilt 76mm M4s the USA was offering, or the more expensive Centurion or M47 Patton

But the design was getting long in the tooth, and a more modern tank was introduced with the L7 105mm gun in 1956. This had a Diesel engine and other improvements, but still rugged and reliable, and later proved a worthy adversary vs Soviet T54 and T62 tanks.

The crowning moment was when the US Marine Corps chose the lighter Canadian tank to replace their M47 Patton tanks

Delta Force said:

The Canadian government required the United States to sign several protocols concerning its activities in the Arctic as part of the agreement for the funding, construction, maintenance, and operation of the DEW Line. There may be the issues between Canada and the United States concerning Arctic waters, but doing the same thing on land would be disastrous. Canada was concerned about symbolically loosing sovereignty as it was, and such actions would make Canada fear losing legal sovereignty as well.

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Ya. And how often does that stop the US from going ahead and doing what it wants anyway? (Actually, much of the time, but not all the time.)

Get a Jingoist President in power (MacArthur instead of Eisenhower, say) and all bets are off.


Actually, my scenario didn't involve the Canadian military militarily aimed at the US, but rather politically. I.e., the Canadians FEAR the US MIGHT take direct action, and build up a military presence in the North so the US has no excuse so to do.

As for US excluding non-US citizens from e.g. DEW line posts, that's a bit far fetched, I'll admit. Let's change that to 'the General in charge demands that change', and the Canadians fear the US gov't might cave.


Canada SHOULD have been more paranoid, IMO, iOTL. So far we've gotten away with it. Sort of. So far.

This is a bit outside of the OP but still post 1900. Avoid the World Wars and the depression that destroyed so much of the world economy. There will still be wars and economic downturns but smaller in scale. Larger economy means larger carbon emissions. The idea is to get the northwest passage to open up early then OTL. Canada then joins the race to industrialize the artic.

Okay...so started typing and here's what I got....

I'm working on the assumption that a large army is out....but one the problems with an army is what do you do with it.

Post WW2 the RCAF was basically given a mission...map Canada. And for the next several years that's what they did...map and document Canada which provides the first photo mosaic of the country.

The Navy was large but also could be argued had the wrong the mix of ships...too many corvettes and not enough escorts for shipping security. Anti-submarine protection would be their mandate with improved destroyer capabilities...start with the Tribal's and build your fleet up from there splitting resources between both coasts evenly.

For the army I would base the initial post-war period on engineering and securing strategic resources...build the road to Yellowknife into a true all weather (for the uranium supplies) and ensure road access is available to all key strategic bases to avoid the Alaska Highway situation.

Korea is so close to WW2 that basically you can't butterfly it away fast enough unless you really damage the economy by not de-mobilizing most troops.

Post Korea...

Soviet airspace incursions (or poor map reading) leads to long range bomber crashing in poor weather near Tutuyuktuk killing several people from the crash. This is initially reported as a bomb going off due to a fuel explosion and NORAD forces are placed upon alert and Canadian forces mobilized for northern movement.

Although reports come in standing down the Armed Forces from the RCMP the failure to mobilize and deploy fast leads to RCAF squadrons being posted to Yellowknife, Churchill, and Goose Bay with interceptors in order to turn back future flights. Ranger units are expanded to ensure reporting occurs correctly and the Army is tasked with conducting regimental sized winter manouvers annually across the north (Op Nanook).

With increased air interception capacity more stories of Russian bomber incursions make the news increasing awareness of the space and lack of military presence in the north. The recent construction of the MacKenzie Valley pipeline has highlighted the infrastructure issues of the north and additional seasonal roads are pushed north under a national campaign to connect all communities within the country by a minimum of winter road. This is funded in a large part with oil and gas revenue from the Artic and from Crown ownership of new resource development plays in Saskatchewan (Potash), Alberta (Oil) and BC (Aluminum).

A report from a Ranger seal hunting near Baffin Island mid-60's sparks a new Red Menace as his report of shooting a submarine "it goes ping ping...a seal goes thud thud when you shoot it" sparks new concern that although aircraft are still a threat the new ballistic missile technologies are the new threat. RCN units are crash deployed and despite several unknown echo reports ice conditions force the units back. Concerns over the report, combined with US pressure to mind the back door, leads a crash ice breaker construction program to be initiated along with increased patrols on both coasts. Sonar locations are still vague due to ice pack and whale movements but increased helicopter patrols from RCN ships, RCAF overflights, and civilian reports pays off when an oil slick is found off Ellsemere island.

K-129, A Golf class diesel electric boat is found crushed on the sea bottom. Crew logs recovered showed that the hull was damaged by an iceberg while trying to avoid aerial patrols and the hull was crushed by ice. No survivors are found on board.

New bases are immediately constructed in Tutukutuk, Churchill and Baffin Island for both RCN and RCAF units emphasising anti-submarine units and patrols. Supply depots are ordered for the Army and Artic gear stored in pre-positioned caches. Logitical transport and mobility become the trademarks of the Armed Forces as helicopters, heavy lift transports, ice breakers and helicopter equipped ships are the norm. Nicknamed the pack mules of NATO Canadian troops take engineering and pioneer work to new extremes specializing in winter warfare and crash deployments.

The 1968 Russian Invasion of Czechoslovakia sparked a huge outcry in Canada. Faced with imagines of Russian troops overrunning the country Canada, via Switzerland, brokered a deal with Russia allowing for those refugees who desired to be flown back to Canada in exchange Russia covering transportation costs. Viewed as a moral victory for NATO in the public eye as RCAF aircraft (assisted by hastily Canadian painted USAF and RAF planes) proceed to move over 70,000 refugees immediately and re-settle close to 150,000 refugees over the next few years. What was not disclosed was the offer was done in exchange for the wreck and remains of the K-129 submarine which had, by this time, been picked over by NATO intelligence agencies. Settled where able many refugees were initially housed on Army bases and University dorms while the experience gained by the annual exercises was put to work and overnight tent towns were established. Calls were made to communities across the country and where possible, large groups with translators were moved especially in the west where new farm lands and logging berths were still being formed. Although Spartan conditions existed it still provided employment in exchange for accommodation and a chance to "Canadianize" and is best reflected in the large number of new breweries established in years following.


The mid-70's oil crisis put the limelight on what resources existed and how to diversify. A large population of former refugees became the backbone of the oil patch as new fields developed and increased demand for both muscle and smarts occurred. Many a rivalry between the local workers and mobile drilling crews occurred as mobile camps, some of which became towns, sprung up across BC, Alberta, Saskatchewan and the NWT. Increased oil production also lead to an industrial boom as 2 trans-national pipelines were built to ensure Canada would not be held hostage to world production issues in future. In conjunction with increased transportation new refineries were built at Kitamat, Edmonton, Winnipeg and Montreal as the eastern manufacturing base was flooded with orders for pipe, parts, and speciality work such as valves.