Delta Force
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The F-4 Phantom served in a dozen national air forces, but the F-15 family has only served with six nations. How could it have served in a dozen or more national air forces?
AHC: Dozen or More F-15 Operators
- Thread starter Delta Force
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I'd say unlikely. You'd need country that has the need for it, can afford it and is on good enough terms with US to sell it. Few of those around. Add to that the fact that F-15 wasn't multirole at the time that means that whoever uses it will need other planes (read likely F-16) for ground attack, adding further cost.
I agree that the Shah would be your best bet. In order to get this very specialized plane exported (remember: "Not a pound for Air-To-Ground"), you would need a country with a large military budget which is friendly to the United States in this timeframe. Japan, Israel and Saudi Arabia fit this ticket, and they all bought the thing. What else? Egypt is probably not US friendly enough (and seemed to be more interested in quantity over quality). And given that Germany never used the Tornado in an air defense role, and kept the F-4 in service for decades (they were among the last users to get rid of them), I doubt they would be interested. UK and France like to buy domestic if possible. Australia COULD be a customer if the Asia-Pacific situation heats up somewhat (more aggressive Indonesia, perhaps?).
They bought the F-14 because they had a very specific tactical requirement for it, namely to stop overflights by Soviet MiG-25 reconnaissance planes. The Phoenix armed Tomcat was ideal for countering that, had the dynasty survived I've no doubt they would have eventually bought the F-15, maybe the F-15E to give them a deep strike capability.
That don't work, because the Tornado is multifunctional combat aircraft (Bomber/Fighter), while back in 1970s, the F-15 was pure high performance fighter.
The F-15E Strike Eagle was 10 year away in future.
Tornado came in 2 distinct versions, ADS/Air to Air (F2/F3) and IDS/Air to Ground(GR1, GR4, etc). The same aircraft was not a multi role a/c like the F-4 or F-16 were at the time.
(Later adding a 3rd ECR version)
They bought the F-14 because the folks at Grumman pulled a fast one at the demonstration fly off. Both companies agreed that they would not turn the fly-off into a aerobatics display. The Eagle went first, followed the agreement, demonstrated the aircraft's abilities but didn't put together a air show routine. The Tomcat crew, following the F-15 demo, went full on Blue Angel, knocked the socks off of the Iranian observers, and got the order. It wasn't a spur of the moment decision either, it was planned well in advance and practiced.
Rather clever, if underhanded as all hell.
If they find the North Sea oil reserves earlier, Norway could be a customer, they have a long coastline and often operate way out over the ocean up there on air patrols, I could see the twin engines and long range of the F-15 being useful to them. And keep in mind the F-15C could carry both unguided iron/cluster bombs and the GBU series from the factory, it's just that no major operators except for Israel use this, so maybe integrating the Penguin as well for anti-shipping duties like they did on their F-16s.
Turkey could be a buyer for either version, F-15Es in the 1990s to replace the Phantoms or F-15Cs at some earlier point to complete their high-low mix with their F-16s. This is a matter of money but Turkey has been pretty wealthy they could've afforded them probably.
Spain could have bought them instead of the F-18, they chose it because it had twin engines for long over water patrols, so the F-15 would slot into this role quite well. Avionics upgrades and more A2G weapons integrated like Israel has, they would still be around and could cause Spain to reduce their Eurofighter order. This is again a question of money and I doubt Spain could afford them unless they were subsidized.
Make Canada a little richer and they could have bought Eagles instead of the Hornet for the NFA program, but for their situation, I think the Tomcat would've been preferable.
Turkey could be a buyer for either version, F-15Es in the 1990s to replace the Phantoms or F-15Cs at some earlier point to complete their high-low mix with their F-16s. This is a matter of money but Turkey has been pretty wealthy they could've afforded them probably.
Spain could have bought them instead of the F-18, they chose it because it had twin engines for long over water patrols, so the F-15 would slot into this role quite well. Avionics upgrades and more A2G weapons integrated like Israel has, they would still be around and could cause Spain to reduce their Eurofighter order. This is again a question of money and I doubt Spain could afford them unless they were subsidized.
Make Canada a little richer and they could have bought Eagles instead of the Hornet for the NFA program, but for their situation, I think the Tomcat would've been preferable.
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The F-15A could carry and use air to ground weapons form day 1. It was in some of the documentations (including the '-1' TO) but generally suppressed because it didn't fit into the Air Forces budgetary plans (And no real fighter pilot wants to spend time having to practice Air to ground delivery when they can spend all their time practicing air to air 
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It would entirely depend on whether the F-15 was able to carry air-to-surface munitions and if not how many nations need an air-superiority jet. CalBear knocked on the obvious ones, and the lack of air-to-surface capability and the price probably also stopped Canada and Australia from much in the way of consideration for it. South Korea might be an option to replace their F-4s, but could they afford it at the time is a good question.
Norway's an interesting idea, as Have Blue's points are true but I'll add one more to it - in an Atlantic Ocean war, the Soviets' bombers have to go around Norway. Having them have long-legged F-15s makes that job harder, and forcing the Russians to use resources suppressing them doesn't help their cause if the Cold War went hot. Canada would probably go with the Tomcat over the Eagle. Iran is an option if the Shah stays, but one should probably remember that the Shah would have to reform his country if he wants any chance in hell of staying in power (or having his wife and son do so after cancer claims him), and that may not make multi-billion-dollar arms buys too easy to justify.
One other option I might propose is India. That would require America being on side with India from the start to get sufficient goodwill, but being that America tended to not be too keen on colonialism I can see that being possible, though Britain won't like it much. What might work best is to have America and India get to know each other well in the immediate aftermath of their independence, and perhaps slim down the License Raj some to give them greater economic strength. (This also has the real possibility of seeing Pakistan allied with the USSR, which could be a double-edged sword.) After the 1971 war with Pakistan, India wants to make sure they can bust Pakistan down for good if they try again, and so India gets the F-15, and a bunch of them are built by HAL from both American components and Indian pieces in the late 1970s and early 1980s.
Norway's an interesting idea, as Have Blue's points are true but I'll add one more to it - in an Atlantic Ocean war, the Soviets' bombers have to go around Norway. Having them have long-legged F-15s makes that job harder, and forcing the Russians to use resources suppressing them doesn't help their cause if the Cold War went hot. Canada would probably go with the Tomcat over the Eagle. Iran is an option if the Shah stays, but one should probably remember that the Shah would have to reform his country if he wants any chance in hell of staying in power (or having his wife and son do so after cancer claims him), and that may not make multi-billion-dollar arms buys too easy to justify.
One other option I might propose is India. That would require America being on side with India from the start to get sufficient goodwill, but being that America tended to not be too keen on colonialism I can see that being possible, though Britain won't like it much. What might work best is to have America and India get to know each other well in the immediate aftermath of their independence, and perhaps slim down the License Raj some to give them greater economic strength. (This also has the real possibility of seeing Pakistan allied with the USSR, which could be a double-edged sword.) After the 1971 war with Pakistan, India wants to make sure they can bust Pakistan down for good if they try again, and so India gets the F-15, and a bunch of them are built by HAL from both American components and Indian pieces in the late 1970s and early 1980s.
Australia and by extension New Zealand always struck me as 2 nations that were screaming out for an F15E
Both nations have a massive area of responsibility to cover
Rather than plug for the F18 or in the case of NZ - Nothing! - IMO they should have gone for the F15E
Range, Performance, Pedigree - just everything
I know they are more expensive per unit and there was a fear of its presence would 'destabilising the region' which seems crazy to me - surely the point of having a decent Airforce is to ensure that no one is crazy enough to attack you?
Seems 'un-Australian' to me
Both nations have a massive area of responsibility to cover
Rather than plug for the F18 or in the case of NZ - Nothing! - IMO they should have gone for the F15E
Range, Performance, Pedigree - just everything
I know they are more expensive per unit and there was a fear of its presence would 'destabilising the region' which seems crazy to me - surely the point of having a decent Airforce is to ensure that no one is crazy enough to attack you?
Seems 'un-Australian' to me
The F-15E would have provided a lot more capability as a replacement for the F-111 than the F-18E/F. More range, heavier weapons load, and the fact is that the USAF uses the Strike Eagle in the role that had been filled by the F-111.
The RAAF already was operating the F/A-18A/B and had a lot of familiarly with the type, although the Superbug is almost a different aircraft then the original Hornet, and the cost difference was considerable (about 750M USD).
F-15's for the RNZAF? Apologies for being blunt, but forget it, that's fantasy football stuff on cost grounds alone. Even if the RNZAF could argue the case, treasury would likely squash it, as they did for the RNZAF F-4 (the preferred option at the time the A-4 was purchased).
There is also the point that at the time of the F-15E's introduction selling a handful (and that's all it would be) to NZ would be politically tricksy, especially in NZ where anti-nuclear (and by extension anti-US) sentiment was a defining feature of the landscape from the mid-80's to the mid 90's. A related sentiment at the turn of the century saw the scrapping of "the deal of the century" to replace the A-4 with F-16's, and the disbandment of the combat wing in general.
F-15E's or any other F-15 for NZ might make practical sense, (or not, what exactly is it's maritime attack ability, which was a key RNZAF role?), but never likely to happen in reality.
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Yes - I'm aware of the sorry state of affairs regarding the RNZAF.
Still their loss was the RAFs gain as a number of those pilots are now flying Typhoon AIUI
Regardless of the views of the looney liberal types (among whose ranks I count myself on some days....) New Zealand's defence along with Australia's is largely reliant on the US
As to the aircraft Maritime Strike Pedigree - the F15E can carry Harpoon (2) or Maverick (6) in addition to LGBs and Air to Air weapons - The A4K could carry 2 Maverick and had Half the range.
Historically NZ has always tried to match Australia's overseas commitments on a 1:4 ratio where possible (i.e. 1 NZ infantry company to support an Aus Infantry battalion) etc.
But I do get your point - F15E's are expensive and who is actually in a position to attack them apart from the US or OZ - who aren't!
And no one could accuse NZ of not standing up to its international duties.
Totally agree (obviously) - and it would have given them 1 airframe type rather than 2 (F111 and F18) during the late 80s and 90s.
The increase in cost of operating F15 could be recovered by having to operate fewer Airframes overall to carry out the same job.
Nick P
Donor
Let's try this:
The RAAF agree to take on 24 F-4E Phantoms in 1970 for the ground attack role while they wait for the F-111Cs to be made suitable for service. The RAAF have already waited 10 years since ordering them.
By 1972 it is obvious that the F-111 is going to take too long and cost too much. The Australian Government force a deal on the US to drop the F-111 and stick with the F-4s. They obtain an extra 4 RF-4E for recon flights, 4 F-4G Wild Weasels for strike support, and over the next 10 years an extra 12 F-4Es for loss replacement and spare parts, mostly from ex-USAF stocks.
By the late 1970s the RAAF are looking to replace the Mirage III in the fighter role. They need at least 50 fighter aircraft. The US makes a lowcost but practical offer of rebuilt Phantoms, mostly from Davis-Monthan and some almost direct from USN squadrons.
60 F-4Js are delivered by 1984 and some of these replace the oldest of the original F-4E fleet. Having already flown the F-4 the RAAF finds it easy to retrain their personnel and simplify their stores.
Ten years later noises are made about the age of Australia's fleet of Phantoms. It is getting harder to maintain them and it is blindingly obvious the F-4 is outmatched by potential enemies.
The RAAF holds an international competition to choose the F-4 successor, looking at the F-18 Hornet, the F-15 Eagle, Tornado, Rafale prototype and the Mirage 2000.
Seeing the chance for a major sale overseas to a confirmed US ally, McDonnell-Douglas demonstrate their F-15E Strike Eagle. The Australian Government agree with the RAAF report and order 70 to replace the entire F-4 fleet by 2000.
(Another storyline is for Australia to struggle on with the F-4E and Mirage mix until the late 1980s, get some F-15C with a promise of the F-15E later in the decade)
The RAAF agree to take on 24 F-4E Phantoms in 1970 for the ground attack role while they wait for the F-111Cs to be made suitable for service. The RAAF have already waited 10 years since ordering them.
By 1972 it is obvious that the F-111 is going to take too long and cost too much. The Australian Government force a deal on the US to drop the F-111 and stick with the F-4s. They obtain an extra 4 RF-4E for recon flights, 4 F-4G Wild Weasels for strike support, and over the next 10 years an extra 12 F-4Es for loss replacement and spare parts, mostly from ex-USAF stocks.
By the late 1970s the RAAF are looking to replace the Mirage III in the fighter role. They need at least 50 fighter aircraft. The US makes a lowcost but practical offer of rebuilt Phantoms, mostly from Davis-Monthan and some almost direct from USN squadrons.
60 F-4Js are delivered by 1984 and some of these replace the oldest of the original F-4E fleet. Having already flown the F-4 the RAAF finds it easy to retrain their personnel and simplify their stores.
Ten years later noises are made about the age of Australia's fleet of Phantoms. It is getting harder to maintain them and it is blindingly obvious the F-4 is outmatched by potential enemies.
The RAAF holds an international competition to choose the F-4 successor, looking at the F-18 Hornet, the F-15 Eagle, Tornado, Rafale prototype and the Mirage 2000.
Seeing the chance for a major sale overseas to a confirmed US ally, McDonnell-Douglas demonstrate their F-15E Strike Eagle. The Australian Government agree with the RAAF report and order 70 to replace the entire F-4 fleet by 2000.
(Another storyline is for Australia to struggle on with the F-4E and Mirage mix until the late 1980s, get some F-15C with a promise of the F-15E later in the decade)