On June 26th 1940, The Soviet Union issued a ultimatum to the Romanian Ambassador to Moscow demanding the regions of Bessarabia and Northern Bukovina. King Carol II wanted to fight however historically he back down under after metting with the German and Italian Ambassdor's to Romania who urged Carol to accept the demands for peace and refused to pressure Hungary and Bulgaria not to intervene to regain the land they lost after the First World War. Still the first vote of the Romanian Crown Council according to Carol II's journal was 11-10 to reject the demands ( several members not voting) and it was only after the 2nd vote that was 20-6 to accept the demands. What if Romania refused the demands? One intersting note is that Turkey agreed to support Romania, would they have dared act if the Soviets really attacked? What would the German, Italian , Turkish, Balken states and British reactions be?http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_occupation_of_Bessarabia_and_Northern_Bukovina
Romania Fights
- Thread starter Zombie Player
- Start date
First tow links on this board dealing with the same scenario.
WI Romania fights in 1940?
https://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=145643&highlight=romania
1940. Romania decides to defend Bessarabia and resist the Soviets.
https://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=248576&highlight=romania
Now for the
A -
Beside war with the soviets,Turkey punts pressure on Bulgaria (So even if no war with the Soviets Turkey could still help)
Greece dose the same so Bulgaria is out.
Yugoslavia could do the same for Hungary and Bulgaria,so he have one more reason for Bulgaria to be out,and one for Hungary do be out.
Now for the big guns 1 - Germany,2 - Italy. 3 - British
3 - The can not do much beside some nice words they are at war with Germany,
1 2 the good option they put pressure on Bulgaria and Hungary not to get in the war,the very good they give weapons to Romania.
B -
Turkey,Greece,Yugoslavia turn a blind eye,Hungary and Bulgaria get involved and they together with the soviets split Romania among them self.
Now for the consequences:
For B : Romania oil production is destroyed,the Axis are unable to restore production,so no Operation Barbarossa,now he have bad option no 1 the soviets attack eventually a larger chunk of Europe ends under there Soviets after the war.
bad option no 2 the soviets don't get in and the allies are confuted with (a) accept the axis domination on the continent, (b) the allies are confronted with the prospect of a blood bath in Europe again they have tow options they accept and it or they decide to use weapons of mass destruction.(and keep in mind the the soviets might still change there mind at some point so add that to)
For A :
The war goes bad for the soviets Stalin as a paranoia crisis and Georgy Zhukov is shoot.
The consequences for the future war between Germany and Soviets could be disastrous for the soviets,on the plus side,a larger part of the could end up on the allies camp. on the negative side the war might take longer.
Now we have the soviets tanks,KV how entered service in 1939,T-34 in 1940 (September and prototype T-34s in January 1940),and the lights T-26 and the BT-series.
Now some of those tanks could see action and be captured by the Romanians which means that chance are they will be analysed by the Germans,how will learn form them.
(of course there is the option in which the Germans learn nothing,since Romania did quite well against the soviets so what is the point in learning from the soviets,this means the nothing much changes for the future war between the Soviets and Germans),but if the Germans learn this could mean the soviets do more bad in the war,the war last longer,(bigger chances of an a bomb been drop on Europe),or it is the same in duration but the soviets don't hold as much at the end of the war.This means the Allied occupied Germany is bigger,the Czech Republic is in the allied camp,so at least half of Czechoslovakia.
And then there a very good version in which Romania holds back the soviets how are unable to occupy Bassarabia and Bukovina.Romania doesn't get involved in Barbarossa,
the Germans learn enough.the soviets do bad enough so that S.C.E. Europe
is Neutral (Finlandizated) and allied after a while.
S.C.E - Hungary,Bulgaria,Czechoslovakia,Yugoslavia,Albania to list only the one how when to communism.are this time democracies.
also maybe Hungary and Bulgaria are also more neutral if not neutral. (edit:some might remain for a period Fascist)
O and Romania fighting could mean that Antonescu doesn't rise to power.(Especially if Romania dose well enough)
Edit real life probably a combination
WI Romania fights in 1940?
https://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=145643&highlight=romania
1940. Romania decides to defend Bessarabia and resist the Soviets.
https://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=248576&highlight=romania
Now for the
A -
Beside war with the soviets,Turkey punts pressure on Bulgaria (So even if no war with the Soviets Turkey could still help)
Greece dose the same so Bulgaria is out.
Yugoslavia could do the same for Hungary and Bulgaria,so he have one more reason for Bulgaria to be out,and one for Hungary do be out.
Now for the big guns 1 - Germany,2 - Italy. 3 - British
3 - The can not do much beside some nice words they are at war with Germany,
1 2 the good option they put pressure on Bulgaria and Hungary not to get in the war,the very good they give weapons to Romania.
B -
Turkey,Greece,Yugoslavia turn a blind eye,Hungary and Bulgaria get involved and they together with the soviets split Romania among them self.
Now for the consequences:
For B : Romania oil production is destroyed,the Axis are unable to restore production,so no Operation Barbarossa,now he have bad option no 1 the soviets attack eventually a larger chunk of Europe ends under there Soviets after the war.
bad option no 2 the soviets don't get in and the allies are confuted with (a) accept the axis domination on the continent, (b) the allies are confronted with the prospect of a blood bath in Europe again they have tow options they accept and it or they decide to use weapons of mass destruction.(and keep in mind the the soviets might still change there mind at some point so add that to)
For A :
The war goes bad for the soviets Stalin as a paranoia crisis and Georgy Zhukov is shoot.
The consequences for the future war between Germany and Soviets could be disastrous for the soviets,on the plus side,a larger part of the could end up on the allies camp. on the negative side the war might take longer.
Now we have the soviets tanks,KV how entered service in 1939,T-34 in 1940 (September and prototype T-34s in January 1940),and the lights T-26 and the BT-series.
Now some of those tanks could see action and be captured by the Romanians which means that chance are they will be analysed by the Germans,how will learn form them.
(of course there is the option in which the Germans learn nothing,since Romania did quite well against the soviets so what is the point in learning from the soviets,this means the nothing much changes for the future war between the Soviets and Germans),but if the Germans learn this could mean the soviets do more bad in the war,the war last longer,(bigger chances of an a bomb been drop on Europe),or it is the same in duration but the soviets don't hold as much at the end of the war.This means the Allied occupied Germany is bigger,the Czech Republic is in the allied camp,so at least half of Czechoslovakia.
And then there a very good version in which Romania holds back the soviets how are unable to occupy Bassarabia and Bukovina.Romania doesn't get involved in Barbarossa,
the Germans learn enough.the soviets do bad enough so that S.C.E. Europe
is Neutral (Finlandizated) and allied after a while.
S.C.E - Hungary,Bulgaria,Czechoslovakia,Yugoslavia,Albania to list only the one how when to communism.are this time democracies.
also maybe Hungary and Bulgaria are also more neutral if not neutral. (edit:some might remain for a period Fascist)
O and Romania fighting could mean that Antonescu doesn't rise to power.(Especially if Romania dose well enough)
Edit real life probably a combination
Last edited:
User Thanks for the links 
I wasn't aware that the Romanians had such a large Army ( and so much Artillery) and Air Force prior to Barbarossa, reading the other threads it seems likely that Romania alone VS Soviet Union would have been Winter War 2.0 - a bloody embarssing conflict that the Soviets won but wasn't worth the lives lost.
To me personally Turkey is the biggest wild card that could expand the crisis, I think if the Turks directly intervene that it may force a British DOW on the Soviet Union. Which leds to alot of interseting butterflies If Turkey doesn't declare war on the Soviets I doubt Britain will intervene in defense of only Romania.
The Germans, I think will mostly stay out as long as there imports of Romanian Oil and Turkish Chromite Ore aren't threatened by the Soviets, Of Course Hitler being Hilter Germany could always do something....unexpected to
I wasn't aware that the Romanians had such a large Army ( and so much Artillery) and Air Force prior to Barbarossa, reading the other threads it seems likely that Romania alone VS Soviet Union would have been Winter War 2.0 - a bloody embarssing conflict that the Soviets won but wasn't worth the lives lost.
To me personally Turkey is the biggest wild card that could expand the crisis, I think if the Turks directly intervene that it may force a British DOW on the Soviet Union. Which leds to alot of interseting butterflies
If Turkey doesn't declare war on the Soviets I doubt Britain will intervene in defense of only Romania.The Germans, I think will mostly stay out as long as there imports of Romanian Oil and Turkish Chromite Ore aren't threatened by the Soviets, Of Course Hitler being Hilter Germany could always do something....unexpected to
I don't see why Britain would attack the USSR during or after the fall of France for any reason. It would be too distracted by the obvious.
Romania could probably have made a decent fight of it, but this isn't Winter War v2. The terrain and weather is less harsh, and the Romanian Army is far worse than the Finnish Army in quality (compare both of their performances during Barbarossa and after.)
That doesn't mean that the Red Army would steamroll Romania. I'd expect something more like a 1-1 casualty ratio meatgrinder initially, followed by a Romanian army collapse. If they don't sue for peace beforehand.
That doesn't mean that the Red Army would steamroll Romania. I'd expect something more like a 1-1 casualty ratio meatgrinder initially, followed by a Romanian army collapse. If they don't sue for peace beforehand.
User Thanks for the links
I wasn't aware that the Romanians had such a large Army ( and so much Artillery) and Air Force prior to Barbarossa, reading the other threads it seems likely that Romania alone VS Soviet Union would have been Winter War 2.0 - a bloody embarssing conflict that the Soviets won but wasn't worth the lives lost.
To me personally Turkey is the biggest wild card that could expand the crisis, I think if the Turks directly intervene that it may force a British DOW on the Soviet Union. Which leds to alot of interseting butterflies
The Germans, I think will mostly stay out as long as there imports of Romanian Oil and Turkish Chromite Ore aren't threatened by the Soviets, Of Course Hitler being Hilter Germany could always do something....unexpected to
The wild card is the level of intervention by Germany,Italy,and Yugoslavia,and to a lesser extent Turkey.Now Germany will be put in to chose do they let Romania fall together with her oil.This i believe is an non option for Germany so Germany is face with what degree of intervention should be there,direct (aka with troops) very unlikely,just make sure that Hungary and Bulgaria don't get involved against Romania,(likely),they support Romania with weapons (there is a chance) or do they believe that Romania is capable enough/trust the soviets to respect the deal they have with them.
Then there are Yugoslavia and Italy they on top of Germany can put troops on the ground,since they don't have a border with USSR if they put troops on the ground,the Greece invasion is out,the Yugoslavia invasion is also out.
Romania vs USSR one on one the Romanians will put up a decent fight.
Romania (with help form out side,beginning with weapons and ending troops) vs USSR
now the Soviets could find them self in an world of hurt.(they might possible even fail to accomplish there goals in time,i believe from the soviet ultimatum to Romania to the start of Barbarossa there is one year,so there time is under an year)