WI: No Modern Christmas?

For a book I'm currently in the process of planning out, I have been researching the origins of our modern celebration of Christmas, to give some backstory to the tale. One of the interesting things I found out was how a lot of our modern perception of Christmas is a combination of stuff completely made up by Washington Irving and Charles Dickens, a result of the Second Great Awakening in the US and the Oxford Movement in Britain and her colonies, and, in the United States, another side effect of the Civil War mixing southern and northern attitudes.

What seemed even more interesting to me was how in the United States there was actually a large movement in the North to do away with celebrating Christmas entirely and instead focusing on the celebration of Thanksgiving as a more American holiday. It's really to the point where even a minor POD like Dickens and Irving writing about something else could potentially do away with Christmas celebrations in most of the US entirely, as even in the Civil War the North getting exposed to Christmas wouldn't be as receptive toward it and not do much about the holiday.

So what do you think would be the long-term effects on culture and capitalism without the wintry celebration in the United States, and also, possibly, in Britain/Canada/Australia/New Zealand?

Are you seriously going to write an AH scenario about killing Christmas?

Why? What did Christmas do to you?

No Christmas? But...but...stockings! Presents! No Christmas?!

I think we need a Grinch Award.

Bear in mind, he's also killed Krampus.

Emperor Norton I said:

Bear in mind, he's also killed Krampus.

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HE KILLED KRAMPUS?! THIS AGGRESSION WILL NOT STAND, SIR!!!

Ultimate Paragon said:

I think we need a Grinch Award.

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This would be sung at the award ceremony:
You're a mean one, PlatoonSgt.
Here's an award for you.
You've gone and killed off Christmas time,
You've made it not exist,
PlatoonSgt.
You've gone and written, the end of Christmas.


(It does seem like an interesting idea, I would read it if you wrote it.)

*wails* NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!! You killed Christmas!

One way to kill Christmas in the UK at least is have a Puritan regime survive for much longer after Oliver Cromwell dies. But to really kill it you need somewhere for the fun to move to. Scotland did that for a long time and so did the USSR, by moving on the fun and excitement to the New Year. So that way the need to celebrate is still legally allowed, and over time the vast majority of people will just celebrate at the New Year. Instead of Father Christmas/Santa giving the presents it's the Old or New Year giving them.

What has Christmas ever done to you?

How about a big new year event + either in spring or autumn a religious Christ birth holiday?

I dont know why you want to make little kids suffer but i think this is a learning moment, i did a little research and when the Puritans won the English Civil War, the banned Christmas, but the people ROSE UP, and took control of Canterbury in protest. REBEL FOR CHRISTMAS

but in reality just keep the puritan faith of New England in charge, I know Boston banned it for a long time, have the Puritans be more widespread, I dont think Christmas was that popular till around the 1850's

Derek Jackson said:

How about a big new year event + either in spring or autumn a religious Christ birth holiday?

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The date for Christmas was assigned in Roman times, so there is little chance a different date could be used.

Biblical descriptions suggest Christ may have been born in the spring. Some years back, amateurs wound back an astronomy program on a computer and concluded that a confluence of planets that might represent the Star of Bethlehem happened on September 11, 3 BC.

Until the nineteenth century, Christmas was a secondary holiday in America, and probably through the Anglosphere via Puritan influence. But what about the rest of Catholic Europe? Weren't the spirit of St. Nicholas (for giving) and the image of Pere Noel or Santa Claus common throughout Europe?

Mark E. said:

Weren't the spirit of St. Nicholas (for giving) and the image of Pere Noel or Santa Claus common throughout Europe?

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Don't forget that the correct day to celebrate St Nicholas birthday is december 6th, not around christmas.

Anyway, without the OTL importance of Christmas I assume that Eastern will be the most important holyday of Christianity.

I think people in northern latitudes will still need a party to keep their spirits up in the dead of winter. New Years might become a bigger and more family-oriented thing in that case.

PlatoonSgt said:

So what do you think would be the long-term effects on culture and capitalism without the wintry celebration in the United States, and also, possibly, in Britain/Canada/Australia/New Zealand?

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My gods, a million and three butterflies and I literally can't imagine where to start. Plays, films, stories all centered around the holiday. No Miracle on 34th Street. No "Yes, Virginia, there is a Santa Claus." Jimmy Stewart ends up being better remembered for "Mr. Smith Goes to Washington" than for "It's a Wonderful Life". Bill Murray never does "Scrooged." "You'll put an eye out with that" never achieves its iconic phrase. Sherlock Holmes's "Adventure of the Blue Carbuncle" gets written differently,

Capitalism, particularly American capitalism, has never found a holiday it cannot monetize, so Christmas may fade to an Arbor Day level of monetization rather than the current madness, and instead Thanksgiving may grow worse (given the more recent deaths during Black Friday I can't be sure how). Perhaps Easter gets ramped up too. Is Boxing Day still a thing? (Its traditions run back farther, but still).

Mark E. said:

Until the nineteenth century, Christmas was a secondary holiday in America, and probably through the Anglosphere via Puritan influence. But what about the rest of Catholic Europe? Weren't the spirit of St. Nicholas (for giving) and the image of Pere Noel or Santa Claus common throughout Europe?

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In some parts of Europe the gift-giving was associated with the Three Wise Men, and therefore usually took place on the Feast of the Epiphany (which is the 12th day of Christmas, reckoning Christmas Day itself as the 1st...) instead.