He came back again -the Jacobite role in a planned French invasion of Great Britain

Urban fox said:

Would there be any prospect of a thrid Jacobite rasing given that France would have landed troops? And would the Stuarts be able to hold the British throne even if the French were willing to restore them?

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A Jacobite raising was unlikely and the Stuarts being able to hold the throne even less so. The longer that the house failed to retake the throne the less local support there was for them. Moreover, if the French installed them they would be seen as foreign puppets as well as Catholics.

Urban fox said:

Having watched Culloden 1746 starring BRIAN BLESSED! Yesterday, I was wondering about the prospects of the Jacobite cause post 1746, if for example the French could carry out an invasion plan they'd been considering in 1759.

Would there be any prospect of a thrid Jacobite rasing given that France would have landed troops? And would the Stuarts be able to hold the British throne even if the French were willing to restore them?

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Saying this as a Jacobite, no there isn't. After 1746 the movement was pretty much dead in the water. Maybe, MAYBE mind you, if the French launched a successful landing either during the '45 or shortly after, say 1746-48, THEN things could have been different. However, as things ended up, it as impossible. Maybe a 1759 invasion of Ireland, for instance, could work, with the Stuarts being restored to that throne, but other then that I can't think of anything.

Emperor Constantine said:

Maybe a 1759 invasion of Ireland, for instance, could work, with the Stuarts being restored to that throne, but other then that I can't think of anything.

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If the French did so then they would be tied down protecting the Stuarts. If they did not then the Engish would be able to move in and drive the Stuart into the bogs if not completely out of the country. Economically England was stronger than Scotland or Ireland so provided they were prepared to throw the treasure into the job they can conquer the more profitable areas. Native allies (as they had in Ireland, pre Bruce Scotland and at the time of Jacobite Rebellion) will cut the cost.
Against that, if the French back an Irish/Scottish throne then the English resources are split. The catch of course is that Paris has to keep pouring treasure in if they wish to maintain the status quo.

Michael B said:

If the French did so then they would be tied down protecting the Stuarts. If they did not then the Engish would be able to move in and drive the Stuart into the bogs if not completely out of the country. Economically England was stronger than Scotland or Ireland so provided they were prepared to throw the treasure into the job they can conquer the more profitable areas. Native allies (as they had in Ireland, pre Bruce Scotland and at the time of Jacobite Rebellion) will cut the cost.
Against that, if the French back an Irish/Scottish throne then the English resources are split. The catch of course is that Paris has to keep pouring treasure in if they wish to maintain the status quo.

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That's why I said Ireland. If any part of the British isles is likely to support a Catholic monarch its them. So realistically the Stuarts would have the backing of a good size of the population, and the returning Irish Jacobites. Also, the British can't constantly be at war with Ireland, they still have the rest of their empire and continental issues to look after. We'd probably see a British attack on the Irish kingdom in nearly every war, but once a peace treaty exists the British aren't gonna break it so soon. Having an independent Ireland would be a cool TL. Maybe Charles Edward lands in Ireland instead of Scotland...?

Emperor Constantine said:

That's why I said Ireland. If any part of the British isles is likely to support a Catholic monarch its them. So realistically the Stuarts would have the backing of a good size of the population, and the returning Irish Jacobites. Also, the British can't constantly be at war with Ireland, they still have the rest of their empire and continental issues to look after. We'd probably see a British attack on the Irish kingdom in nearly every war, but once a peace treaty exists the British aren't gonna break it so soon. Having an independent Ireland would be a cool TL. Maybe Charles Edward lands in Ireland instead of Scotland...?

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Feelings are kinda mixed in that regard. I know early on a Jacobite restoration in Ireland would be more profitable and successful, than in Great Britain, given the more powerful presence in support of the Hanoverians (being predominantly, if not wholly Protestant helps). But Jacobite Ireland would be a perennial money sink for Ireland in the initial phase, not to mention that the British although they would care about continental issues and the like, probably are not going to thrive as well with an Ireland not under direct British control. (18th century UK is not in the same mindset as the 20th century version.)

Razgriz 2K9 said:

Feelings are kinda mixed in that regard. I know early on a Jacobite restoration in Ireland would be more profitable and successful, than in Great Britain, given the more powerful presence in support of the Hanoverians (being predominantly, if not wholly Protestant helps). But Jacobite Ireland would be a perennial money sink for Ireland in the initial phase, not to mention that the British although they would care about continental issues and the like, probably are not going to thrive as well with an Ireland not under direct British control.

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Jacobite Ireland would be seen as a greater threat than the court they held in Paris on OTL. At very least the Britain could knock off coastal towns starting with Dublin. Whilst cleaning out the hinterland might take a generation, the Stuarts are not going to present a credible kingdom if they are living in peat bogs.

Razgriz 2K9 said:

Maybe Charles Edward lands in Ireland instead of Scotland...?

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Land in Ireland and you still need ships to get to England, that is if your objective is the throne of England. Which what his was.

Emperor Constantine said:

Maybe a 1759 invasion of Ireland, for instance, could work, with the Stuarts being restored to that throne, but other then that I can't think of anything.

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Emperor Constantine said:

That's why I said Ireland. If any part of the British isles is likely to support a Catholic monarch its them. So realistically the Stuarts would have the backing of a good size of the population, and the returning Irish Jacobites. Also, the British can't constantly be at war with Ireland, they still have the rest of their empire and continental issues to look after. We'd probably see a British attack on the Irish kingdom in nearly every war, but once a peace treaty exists the British aren't gonna break it so soon. Having an independent Ireland would be a cool TL. Maybe Charles Edward lands in Ireland instead of Scotland...?

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A Stuart Ireland and a Hanoverian/Protestant Great Britain is basically impossible and certainly can't be sustained for very long. A Stuart Ireland can't stand on its own. As was repeatedly demonstrated in 1650, 1689, 1798 etc. Ireland alone couldn't withstand a semi-united Great Britain. Which means any Stuart Ireland would have to be French aligned, but a French aligned Ireland coupled with France basically means an isolated and besieged Great Britain cut off from the easy access to the Atlantic and forced to go north via Iceland to get to BNA. In other words completely intolerable to Britain. Now a strong French Navy and bad luck on the British side could force that scenario but it would still be deeply unstable because if France is strong enough to control the Irish Channel and prevent a British Invasion of Ireland it is strong enough to deliver land a French invasion force in Britain. And that leads to a French puppet restored Three Kingdoms.