The Big Red New York?
- Thread starter phx1138
- Start date
TFSmith121
Banned
This is fairly involved, so bear with me:
The current range of unit designations in the US military (particularly the Army, but also the USAF and USMC) date, conceptually, to the 1917-18 mobilization for WW I.
Essentially, the decision was made to integrate all elements of the mobilization force (i.e., the Regular Army, National Guard, and the mobilization/draft/etc units and formations) into single series of designations, depending (primarily) on the branch. As example:
The 1st Infantry Division consisted of the 1st and 2nd Infantry Brigades, and the 1st Field Artillery Brigade. The regiments that made up the brigades and, by extension, the division, were all regular units, and were assigned essentially on the basis of geographic and operational readiness in 1917, when the division was formed as such. These included the 16th, 18th, 26th, and 28th infantry regiments, and the 5th, 6th, and 7th field artillery regiments.
The divisions that mobilized or were expected to mobilize for WW I were given numbers as follows:
1st - 25th were to be regular army; 25x4 equals 100 infantry regiments, which were to begin with those already in existence (including some that traced their organization to the Eighteenth Century);
26th - 50th were to be National Guard, which were the federally-recognized (since 1903) successors to the organized/service state militias; the state militia regiments had the "state" designators familiar from the Spanish-American, Civil War, and before (*) but - almost entirely - they were redesignated in the "national" series, from 101st onward. The reaon why, of course, is that having 51 "1st Infantry Regiments" is likely to get confusing; also, integrating them all into a single series means replacements could be assigned without regard of where they were from where they enlisted, or anything else.
In addition, the divisions (and by extension, the brigades, regiments, etc.) were designated in a geographic progression from the Northeast to the Pacific Coast (the 26th Division was organized from NG units in New England, the 27th from New York, the 28th from Pennsylvania, etc.)
51st and up were to be the mobilization divisions, what was referred to as the "National Army" during WW I and which were redesignated as elements of the Army Reserve after the war. This is where formations like (for example) the 82nd Airborne Division traces their ancestry from, although of course, in 1918, it was simply the 82nd Division. The brigades, regiments, etc also followed. This was also done on a geographic basis; the 76th Division, for example, was raised in New England; the 77th in New York; etc.
Now, with the WW II mobilization, a lot of this had changed; brigades had been dropped, some regiments had been deactivated, reactivated, swapped, etc.) and "new" divisions and regiments activated to accomodate population growth, but the original system is still discernable.
* Worth noting is that while the National Guard regiments could (generally) trace their ancestry to state militia units, there were identically numbered units in both the state militia AND federal service, during, for example, the Civil War. The 69th New York State Militia, for example, was just that until 1861; it was activated as such for the initial 90-day mobilization, and served as such; a 69th New York Volunteers was raised for the 1861 3-year-mobilization, and with significant cadre and insititutional overlap with the 69th NYSM. Later in the war, while the 69th NY (Volunteers) was in federal service, and as such, administratively an element of the United States Volunteers (as opposed to the Regular Army), the 69th NYSM was mobilized at various times for periods of from 30 to 90 days, depending on need. After the war, the records of the 69th NY Volunteers and the 69th NYSM were regarded as linked, because of that connection.
Just as a matter of historical note, while the vast majority of National Guard units got the "100 series" redesignation in WW I, and have kept them today, the 69th Infantry remains special; although recognized as a Guard unit, it, in fact, occupies the "RA" spot, even today.
So, bottom line, the point of departure was 1917, not 1861; so if the US does not mobilize a "national army" for WW I, the previous state structure will presumably remain until WW II.
Note that there were exceptions to every rule above, for reasons that made perfect sense at the time; having said that, the basic system remains in place today.
Best,
The current range of unit designations in the US military (particularly the Army, but also the USAF and USMC) date, conceptually, to the 1917-18 mobilization for WW I.
Essentially, the decision was made to integrate all elements of the mobilization force (i.e., the Regular Army, National Guard, and the mobilization/draft/etc units and formations) into single series of designations, depending (primarily) on the branch. As example:
The 1st Infantry Division consisted of the 1st and 2nd Infantry Brigades, and the 1st Field Artillery Brigade. The regiments that made up the brigades and, by extension, the division, were all regular units, and were assigned essentially on the basis of geographic and operational readiness in 1917, when the division was formed as such. These included the 16th, 18th, 26th, and 28th infantry regiments, and the 5th, 6th, and 7th field artillery regiments.
The divisions that mobilized or were expected to mobilize for WW I were given numbers as follows:
1st - 25th were to be regular army; 25x4 equals 100 infantry regiments, which were to begin with those already in existence (including some that traced their organization to the Eighteenth Century);
26th - 50th were to be National Guard, which were the federally-recognized (since 1903) successors to the organized/service state militias; the state militia regiments had the "state" designators familiar from the Spanish-American, Civil War, and before (*) but - almost entirely - they were redesignated in the "national" series, from 101st onward. The reaon why, of course, is that having 51 "1st Infantry Regiments" is likely to get confusing; also, integrating them all into a single series means replacements could be assigned without regard of where they were from where they enlisted, or anything else.
In addition, the divisions (and by extension, the brigades, regiments, etc.) were designated in a geographic progression from the Northeast to the Pacific Coast (the 26th Division was organized from NG units in New England, the 27th from New York, the 28th from Pennsylvania, etc.)
51st and up were to be the mobilization divisions, what was referred to as the "National Army" during WW I and which were redesignated as elements of the Army Reserve after the war. This is where formations like (for example) the 82nd Airborne Division traces their ancestry from, although of course, in 1918, it was simply the 82nd Division. The brigades, regiments, etc also followed. This was also done on a geographic basis; the 76th Division, for example, was raised in New England; the 77th in New York; etc.
Now, with the WW II mobilization, a lot of this had changed; brigades had been dropped, some regiments had been deactivated, reactivated, swapped, etc.) and "new" divisions and regiments activated to accomodate population growth, but the original system is still discernable.
* Worth noting is that while the National Guard regiments could (generally) trace their ancestry to state militia units, there were identically numbered units in both the state militia AND federal service, during, for example, the Civil War. The 69th New York State Militia, for example, was just that until 1861; it was activated as such for the initial 90-day mobilization, and served as such; a 69th New York Volunteers was raised for the 1861 3-year-mobilization, and with significant cadre and insititutional overlap with the 69th NYSM. Later in the war, while the 69th NY (Volunteers) was in federal service, and as such, administratively an element of the United States Volunteers (as opposed to the Regular Army), the 69th NYSM was mobilized at various times for periods of from 30 to 90 days, depending on need. After the war, the records of the 69th NY Volunteers and the 69th NYSM were regarded as linked, because of that connection.
Just as a matter of historical note, while the vast majority of National Guard units got the "100 series" redesignation in WW I, and have kept them today, the 69th Infantry remains special; although recognized as a Guard unit, it, in fact, occupies the "RA" spot, even today.
So, bottom line, the point of departure was 1917, not 1861; so if the US does not mobilize a "national army" for WW I, the previous state structure will presumably remain until WW II.
Note that there were exceptions to every rule above, for reasons that made perfect sense at the time; having said that, the basic system remains in place today.
Best,
Last edited:
TFSmith121
Banned
Naw; I have the weekend mostly free for BROS:
Naw; I have the weekend mostly free for BROS: Labor Day in the US.
YAQW.
Best,
Thx so much, but aren't you really too busy to answer this?
Naw; I have the weekend mostly free for BROS: Labor Day in the US.
YAQW.
Best,