XXth C: Discussion Thread

Glen

Moderator
The XXth Century: 100 years of Change

The XX is a shared worlds project that you are all invited to join. The POD is 12:00 AM on January 1, 1901. The timeline will officially end at 11:59 PM on December 31, 2000. The premise for our ATL is based essentially on Quantum Mechanics and Chaos Theory; that if you ran the same events over again those events might not have the same results. Therefore, altered events early on should only require very small changes in events, though even those small changes can have big outcomes. For example, two from 1901 will be the wounding but not death of President William McKinley, and the fatal shooting of Kaiser Wilhelm II (he was shot at in 1901, but the assassin missed, ITTL, a shot hits the mark). Obviously, as time goes on and we have many small changes (though perhaps with large results), there will also be changes from OTL that directly and indirectly stem from those changes.

There will be several threads labeled XXth C. that relate to this project. One will be a discussion thread in the Alternate History Discussion: After 1900 Forum. Two will be in the Shared Worlds Forum, a submission draft thread and the official timeline thread. Eventually, we will post our completed XXth Century timeline in the Timelines and Scenarios Forum. If you would like to contribute an event to the timeline, you place it in the draft thread. Discussion about that event should quote the event in question every time for reference, or link to the post if it is long. Suggested posts will be open for comment for two days after posting, and then will be either included into the official timeline, or not. The draft thread is also where you may submit maps for the timeline as well, which will be subjected to the same process as the posts.

Guidelines for your posts:

Nothing should be a change from before the POD.

The date of your event may be before or after the last event in the official timeline, but must not contradict anything in the official timeline.

Events must be plausible within the context of the already existing timeline, and the more probable ones will be more accepted.

Also, though a single event type may in itself be plausible, there will, at the discretion of the moderator, be limits on the numbers of similar events that occur at any given time. For example, even though any one assassination of a world leader in any year might be plausible, if everyone tried to have someone assassinated that year it would become somewhat improbable.

People conceived before the POD will be born as the same people genetically (unless someone wants to write in a miscarriage or death of a pregnant woman after the POD).

People born within the first month of the POD will be mostly the same, as they will have at least all the same genes from their maternal line, and may have a substantial number of the same ones from their father as well. Feel free to use these people as is or with differences from the OTL figures.

People born after this point who have the same or nearly the same genetic heritage will become rapidly less common, and probably will not happen after the first year. However, within the first fourteen years after the POD, there will be many people who are genetically siblings of the OTL figures who would be likely to be born, and who may have the same name as well as the same parents as the OTL originals. By 1915 or so, the fact that we likely will not have the same WWI as OTL will mean that many marriages will not happen as they did in OTL, given the death and displacements it caused in OTL. This may be stretched to 1921 for regions that were not affected by WWI and had locally stable conditions in both OTL and ITTL.

People born after 14-20 years will all be different by this point, and it will be becoming unlikely that we even see the same people marrying, except for certain extraordinary cases. What this means is that almost no OTL figure born after 1920 will be born into TTL. We may still see some related people from OTL families which have a strong tendency towards certain things, for example though you wouldn’t see any of OTL Kennedys born after 1920 (or even before), related Kennedys born after that time might very well still go into politics.

Feel free to change weather conditions, these are rather chaotic. However, they should still conform roughly to normal climates and trends; having a hurricane in late March or an ice storm in New England in July is pretty much out, for examples.

Science and discoveries can happen at a roughly different pace, and in different places if the work is done to explain those differences, but should either be simple things or should have preceding events that build up to them described. Where not specifically mention, assume a progression roughly similar to our own timeline, though I hope that instead, people will give us both faster and slower progressions. For example, penicillin really could have been discovered at any point in the early 20th century or the Atomic bomb might have been delayed without OTL WWII.

Welcome to the XXth Century…

Glen Finney, Proprietor

XXth C: Timeline

XXth C: Draft Thread
 
Last edited:
Wait a sec, so we can just post any event anywhere in the 20th century, or do we have to submit it first?
 

Glen

Moderator
reformer said:
Wait a sec, so we can just post any event anywhere in the 20th century, or do we have to submit it first?

You submit it in the draft thread first, then it is open for comment for 48 hours, then I make the final determination whether it is included, either in its original form or with amendment.

I recommend you start with events early on first, as they will effect what happens later. In fact, I'd like to ask that we first get some rough history for the first 15 years before heading further into the twentieth century.
 
Last edited:
September 14, 1901: An assasin tries to kill President McKinely. The bullet shatteres the Presidents shoulder, but there is no long term damage. The assasin in shot down by nearby guards.
 

Glen

Moderator
reformer said:
September 14, 1901: An assasin tries to kill President McKinely. The bullet shatteres the Presidents shoulder, but there is no long term damage. The assasin in shot down by nearby guards.

Exactly. I already intended this one to go through, so we'll fast track it.
 

Glen

Moderator
reformer said:
Wait a sec, so we can just post any event anywhere in the 20th century, or do we have to submit it first?

You submit it in the Draft Thread first, then it is open for comment for 48 hours, then I make the final determination of if it is included, either in its original form or with amendment.

I recommend you start with events early on first, as they will effect what happens later. In fact, I'd like to ask that we first get some rough history for the first 15 years before heading further into the twentieth century.
 

Glen

Moderator
So far, in 1901 we have McKinley surviving his assassination attempt, but Kaiser Wilhelm II dying.

So, anyone want to venture some results of these changes to the timeline?
 
September 5-1902
The tension crackled down the picket line. The strikers clumped in front of the entrance to a Pennsylvania coal mine. The men were marching in front of an ornate manor house, the home of a mine operator. Between the yelling crowd and the mine stood a thin line of Pinkertons, in gray overcoats.
The protesters grew more and more violent, rubbish flew through the air toward the Pinkertons. Then one brick smashed into a Pinkerton. The man crumpled like a rag doll.
Before he hit the ground, the Pinkerton commander gave a hoarse shout.
The security officer's rifles came to their shoulders.
Then the shooting started. Pundits and historians devated who opened fire first, but one fact is clear. At the end of the day thirty strikers where dead, and several hundred wounded, Five pinkertosn were killed, and two dozen more wounded.
 

Glen

Moderator
SkyEmperor said:
September 5-1902
The tension crackled down the picket line. The strikers clumped in front of the entrance to a Pennsylvania coal mine. The men were marching in front of an ornate manor house, the home of a mine operator. Between the yelling crowd and the mine stood a thin line of Pinkertons, in gray overcoats.
The protesters grew more and more violent, rubbish flew through the air toward the Pinkertons. Then one brick smashed into a Pinkerton. The man crumpled like a rag doll.
Before he hit the ground, the Pinkerton commander gave a hoarse shout.
The security officer's rifles came to their shoulders.
Then the shooting started. Pundits and historians devated who opened fire first, but one fact is clear. At the end of the day thirty strikers where dead, and several hundred wounded, Five pinkertosn were killed, and two dozen more wounded.

So, I am not particularly familiar with this strike. What happened in the original timeline?
 

Glen

Moderator
March 3, 1901 General Frederick Funston dies of a bout of Malaria.

What if we add this event? Then in the Philippines Aguinaldo probably won't be captured later that month. We also might see bloodier fighting in Cuba in 1906. And we could see more damage from the San Francisco Earthquake (he dynamited buildings to make firebreaks).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frederick_Funston
 
January 1st 1903

Clyde J. Coleman becomes the first automotive fatality of the new year when a Electric Taxi acceidenty runs him over while he is celibrating the new Year.
 
Some possibilities:

-March 6, 1901: While in Bremen, Wilhelm II is assassinated.
-March, 1903: Colombia agrees to the Hay-Herran Treaty and the US gets the Panama Canal, w/o Panamanian independence.

During the era when varying automobile technologies competed (electric, steam, gas), have a different outcome. Frex, electric, or gasoline-electric.
 

Glen

Moderator
DuQuense said:
January 1st 1903

Clyde J. Coleman becomes the first automotive fatality of the new year when a Electric Taxi acceidenty runs him over while he is celibrating the new Year.

Were there Electric Taxis at this time, and who was Clyde J Coleman?
 

Glen

Moderator
DominusNovus said:
Some possibilities:

-March 6, 1901: While in Bremen, Wilhelm II is assassinated.

Done!

-March, 1903: Colombia agrees to the Hay-Herran Treaty and the US gets the Panama Canal, w/o Panamanian independence.

I was thinking of this one as well, however, they probably still wouldn't have accepted the first draft, so I think we would probably see this event later in the year.

Anyone else have a comment on this?

During the era when varying automobile technologies competed (electric, steam, gas), have a different outcome. Frex, electric, or gasoline-electric.

A good idea, but we need something more specific as to WHY that happens.
 
Were there Electric Taxis at this time, and who was Clyde J Coleman?

Yes there were, in fact most non horse taxis in 1900~12 were electric.

Mr Colman invented the Electric Starter in 1903.
 

Glen

Moderator
DuQuense said:
Yes there were, in fact most non horse taxis in 1900~12 were electric.

Mr Colman invented the Electric Starter in 1903.

Ah, so is this supposed to be irony? Having an electric car kill off one of the guys who would invent something instrumental to their replacement?
 
Glen Finney said:
Didn't notice that was already in there. :eek:

Oh well, you know what they say about two great minds...

Same goes for two minds that like to browse the year articles on wikipedia, huh? :D

Glen Finney said:
A good idea, but we need something more specific as to WHY that happens.
Alright. Ferdinand Porche built one in 1899. Showed it off at the worlds fair in 1900, at Paris. Later got hired by Austro-Daimler. Meanwhile, Henry Ford was doing all sorts of different things around this time. Founded a couple different companies, developed all sorts of different cars, etc. Lets just have them meet (perhaps at the worlds fair?) and hit it off. Ford hires Porche when he starts Ford Motor Company. Now, we could take it all sorts of different ways. Here's one possibility:

In Ford's earlier companies, he had a reputation for focusing too much on improving and designing new models, rather than the actual business of the company. Quite different from his later philosophy of selling just one model for 2 decades. So, early on, Ford and Porche play around with gasoline-electric cars. Eventually, Ford settles on an analogue to the Model T (probably still called the Model T, but maybe with a few more features). Now, either Porche convinces him to offer a hybrid version for city use (where hybrids are most effecient) or Ford, being the stubborn ass he is, refuses, and Porche eventually goes off and founds his own company, maybe with someone else, maybe not, and produces a hybrid car which gains popularity.

Able to compete with both gasoline and electric vehicles, the hybrids might hasten the death of the steam car (though a steam-electric car would be interesting...) and the electric car as it takes over the electric's role in the city. Pure gasoline cars remain popular with people who can't afford a hybrid car, but prices will likely soon become competitive that they'll dominate urban markets (rural markets will likely remain pure gasoline for longer, since hybrids aren't as effecient outside the city).
 

Glen

Moderator
DominusNovus said:
Didn't notice that was already in there. :eek:

Oh well, you know what they say about two great minds...

Same goes for two minds that like to browse the year articles on wikipedia, huh? :D

Most definitely.


Alright. Ferdinand Porche built one in 1899. Showed it off at the worlds fair in 1900, at Paris. Later got hired by Austro-Daimler. Meanwhile, Henry Ford was doing all sorts of different things around this time. Founded a couple different companies, developed all sorts of different cars, etc. Lets just have them meet (perhaps at the worlds fair?) and hit it off. Ford hires Porche when he starts Ford Motor Company. Now, we could take it all sorts of different ways.

We'd have to make it after December 31, 1900. Would that still work? Sounds like it might.

Here's one possibility:

In Ford's earlier companies, he had a reputation for focusing too much on improving and designing new models, rather than the actual business of the company. Quite different from his later philosophy of selling just one model for 2 decades. So, early on, Ford and Porche play around with gasoline-electric cars. Eventually, Ford settles on an analogue to the Model T (probably still called the Model T, but maybe with a few more features). Now, either Porche convinces him to offer a hybrid version for city use (where hybrids are most effecient) or Ford, being the stubborn ass he is, refuses, and Porche eventually goes off and founds his own company, maybe with someone else, maybe not, and produces a hybrid car which gains popularity.

Would a hybrid be feasible at this time?

Able to compete with both gasoline and electric vehicles, the hybrids might hasten the death of the steam car (though a steam-electric car would be interesting...) and the electric car as it takes over the electric's role in the city. Pure gasoline cars remain popular with people who can't afford a hybrid car, but prices will likely soon become competitive that they'll dominate urban markets (rural markets will likely remain pure gasoline for longer, since hybrids aren't as effecient outside the city).

Sounds like a beginning. I'd recommend writing up a series of events regarding this (they need not be precise days, but at least months or seasons or year at minimum).
 
Glen Finney said:
We'd have to make it after December 31, 1900. Would that still work? Sounds like it might.
Thought that it had to be after January 1, 1900?

Glen Finney said:
Would a hybrid be feasible at this time?
Well, they existed. I'm no engineer, but electric cars were competitive, gasoline cars were competitive, and diesel electric locomotives were the standard by the 30's (introduced in 1918). Steam cars were being sold till 1927, so I figure if primitive hybrids can hold out that long against gasoline, they should have matured enough, technologically, to be competitive in certain markets. After that point, they should be able to expand outside of the urban niche.

Glen Finney said:
Sounds like a beginning. I'd recommend writing up a series of events regarding this (they need not be precise days, but at least months or seasons or year at minimum).
I'll look into it.
 
Top