Basically, what if Louis-Auguste de Bourbon, XVI of France had died in 1785, shortly after the birth of Louis-Charles, Duc de Normandy. Would this help put off the revolution or would the revolution change to be about removing the evil advisors of Louis-Joseph Xavier François, XVII of France. And would France benefit from an extended regency rather than a period of misrule and slow change, with the regency first under Louis-Joseph then Louis-Charles. Who takes the regency, the Duc de Orleans or perhaps the Count of Artois? Where do they marry off Marie-Therese in these circumstances, and does she have children with a different husband? And what happens to their mother, Marie Antoinette?
WI: Louis XVI dies early?
- Thread starter Kynan
- Start date
Basic Idea:
Upon the death of Louis-Auguste, XVI of France, the crown fell to his 4 year old son, the sickly but bright Louis-Joseph. Immediately his widow, the unpopular Maria Antonia (Marie Antoinette) of Austria put forward copies of his will throughout the court and to all those of importance, thus allowing the Comte de Provence to initially take the position of Regent of France as the King's uncle. Marie Antoinette was then able to begin her widowhood, taking her daughter and youngest son to live more privately in the Petit Trianon, an estate her husband had gifted her many years prior. The Queen Dowager would visit her son regularly at the Palace of Versailles but chose to seperate herself from the unpopular, excessive court.
However, in March of 1789, the Duc d'Orleans led a group of 200 men into the palace with a document he claimed held 100,000 signatures from across France, demanding the end of the regency of the Comte de Provence and his own installation as the Regent of France. Initially the Comte d'Artois supported his brother against their cousin, but after the death of the King in June of that same year due to tuberculosis, the Comte d'Artois removed his support and all looked to the Petit Trianon, where the new King of France resided with his mother and sister. The first to the small estate was the Duc d'Orleans, who broke the news to the distraught mother and took possession of her son, thus gaining the upper hand. And on the 18th of August, 1789, the Comte de Provence left the court for an exile declared by the new Regent, who for the time attempted minor reforms.
Marie Antoinette, in 1792, attempted to marry her daughter to Louis of Parma, Prince of Piacenza, her nephew. However, this move was not one supported by the regency and on the 4th of November, 1993, Marie Therese Charlotte was married to the eldest son of the Duc d'Orleans, Louis Philippe. This match horrified the Queen Dowager and later in the year she attempted a coup, supported by the Comte d'Artois and funded by the Comte de Provence. However, the move failed and in 1796 she was given 2 choices: either stay at the Petit Trianon in a house arrest, or remove herself to her native Austria. She chose the house arrest but railed against the injustice of it all. Her daughter, meanwhile, seemed to be quite taken with her husband, who treated the French Princess well and in on the 11th of February, 1799 they welcomed the first of their 2 children, Louise Bathilde Antoinette d'Orleans. Their daughter would be followed on the 29th of December, 1805 with a brother, named Louis-François Xavier d'Orleans.
On the 13th of July, 1799, aged 14, the King of France married his cousin, the 17 year old Maria Amalia of Naples and Sicily. A match initially meant for his brother, the Regency had agreed to continue the union with his brother. And although Louis-Charles was now technically old enough for the end of the Regency, it would last until 1802, when he finally stepped forward and took control of his country. However, this be the same year as the Grand Revolution began in truth and in 1805 he signed the agreement to move France from an absolutist to a constitutional monarchy, an easy move for a young man who had spent his rule under the advise of many, many men. And thus, the first standing Council of France was formed, made up of 7 nobles (including his brother in law the Duc d'Orleans) and 7 men of 'lower standing', including a tavern owner, a farmer and an author.
Louis XVI of France (b.1754: d.1785) m. Maria Antonia of Austria (b.1755) (a)
Upon the death of Louis-Auguste, XVI of France, the crown fell to his 4 year old son, the sickly but bright Louis-Joseph. Immediately his widow, the unpopular Maria Antonia (Marie Antoinette) of Austria put forward copies of his will throughout the court and to all those of importance, thus allowing the Comte de Provence to initially take the position of Regent of France as the King's uncle. Marie Antoinette was then able to begin her widowhood, taking her daughter and youngest son to live more privately in the Petit Trianon, an estate her husband had gifted her many years prior. The Queen Dowager would visit her son regularly at the Palace of Versailles but chose to seperate herself from the unpopular, excessive court.
However, in March of 1789, the Duc d'Orleans led a group of 200 men into the palace with a document he claimed held 100,000 signatures from across France, demanding the end of the regency of the Comte de Provence and his own installation as the Regent of France. Initially the Comte d'Artois supported his brother against their cousin, but after the death of the King in June of that same year due to tuberculosis, the Comte d'Artois removed his support and all looked to the Petit Trianon, where the new King of France resided with his mother and sister. The first to the small estate was the Duc d'Orleans, who broke the news to the distraught mother and took possession of her son, thus gaining the upper hand. And on the 18th of August, 1789, the Comte de Provence left the court for an exile declared by the new Regent, who for the time attempted minor reforms.
Marie Antoinette, in 1792, attempted to marry her daughter to Louis of Parma, Prince of Piacenza, her nephew. However, this move was not one supported by the regency and on the 4th of November, 1993, Marie Therese Charlotte was married to the eldest son of the Duc d'Orleans, Louis Philippe. This match horrified the Queen Dowager and later in the year she attempted a coup, supported by the Comte d'Artois and funded by the Comte de Provence. However, the move failed and in 1796 she was given 2 choices: either stay at the Petit Trianon in a house arrest, or remove herself to her native Austria. She chose the house arrest but railed against the injustice of it all. Her daughter, meanwhile, seemed to be quite taken with her husband, who treated the French Princess well and in on the 11th of February, 1799 they welcomed the first of their 2 children, Louise Bathilde Antoinette d'Orleans. Their daughter would be followed on the 29th of December, 1805 with a brother, named Louis-François Xavier d'Orleans.
On the 13th of July, 1799, aged 14, the King of France married his cousin, the 17 year old Maria Amalia of Naples and Sicily. A match initially meant for his brother, the Regency had agreed to continue the union with his brother. And although Louis-Charles was now technically old enough for the end of the Regency, it would last until 1802, when he finally stepped forward and took control of his country. However, this be the same year as the Grand Revolution began in truth and in 1805 he signed the agreement to move France from an absolutist to a constitutional monarchy, an easy move for a young man who had spent his rule under the advise of many, many men. And thus, the first standing Council of France was formed, made up of 7 nobles (including his brother in law the Duc d'Orleans) and 7 men of 'lower standing', including a tavern owner, a farmer and an author.
Louis XVI of France (b.1754: d.1785) m. Maria Antonia of Austria (b.1755) (a)
1a) Marie-Thérèse Charlotte de Bourbon, Madame Royale (b.1778) m. Louis Philippe d'Orleans (b.1773) (a)
2a) Louis-Joseph, XVII of France (b.1781: d.1789)
3a) Louis-Charles, XVIII of France (b.1785) m. Maria Amalia of Naples and Sicily (b.1782) (a)
1a) Louise Bathilde Antoinette d'Orleans (b.1799)
2a) Louis-François Xavier d'Orleans (b.1805)
2a) Louis-François Xavier d'Orleans (b.1805)
2a) Louis-Joseph, XVII of France (b.1781: d.1789)
3a) Louis-Charles, XVIII of France (b.1785) m. Maria Amalia of Naples and Sicily (b.1782) (a)
1a) Louis-Xavier de Bourbon, Dauphin of France (b.1801)
2a) Charles-Joseph de Bourbon, Duc de Normandy (b.1803)
3a) François-Auguste de Bourbon (b.1805: d.1805)
4a) Marie-Sophie Françoise de Bourbon, Madame Royale (b.1807)
5a) Philippe-François de Bourbon, Duc de Nemours (b.1810)
6a) Louise-Clémentine de Bourbon, Fille de France (b.1812: d.1813)
7a) Henri-Antoine de Bourbon, Duc de Penthièvre (b.1816)
8a) Anne-Charlotte de Bourbon, Fille de France (b.1820)
2a) Charles-Joseph de Bourbon, Duc de Normandy (b.1803)
3a) François-Auguste de Bourbon (b.1805: d.1805)
4a) Marie-Sophie Françoise de Bourbon, Madame Royale (b.1807)
5a) Philippe-François de Bourbon, Duc de Nemours (b.1810)
6a) Louise-Clémentine de Bourbon, Fille de France (b.1812: d.1813)
7a) Henri-Antoine de Bourbon, Duc de Penthièvre (b.1816)
8a) Anne-Charlotte de Bourbon, Fille de France (b.1820)
Why's Antoinette attempting a Parmese match for her daughter? Parma never proposed OTL.
MT's suitors were (according to Susan Nagel's biography)
Francesco, Hereditary Prince of Naples (future Francis I)
Louis Philippe, duc de Valois/Chartres/Orléans
Gustaf IV, King of Sweden (most likely not seriously, although Gustaf III did mention it several times, and the queen was close with Fersen)
Charles, archduke of Austria, duke of Teschen
After her father and brothers died, there was an attempt to marry her to Fernando VII, as a way of him claiming Navarre through her. The duke of Teschen had been proposed with the intention of getting Lorraine by the same method.
Parma, on the other hand, was originally proposed for Maria Amelia of Spain, however, he found her too shy, too clumsy and too withdrawn and preferred her sister, Maria Luisa. That said, her parents hastily arranged a match between Amelia and her uncle, Infante Antonio, although the original deal had been Parma to marry Amelia, whilst Antonio was to marry one of Parma's sisters.
MT's suitors were (according to Susan Nagel's biography)
Francesco, Hereditary Prince of Naples (future Francis I)
Louis Philippe, duc de Valois/Chartres/Orléans
Gustaf IV, King of Sweden (most likely not seriously, although Gustaf III did mention it several times, and the queen was close with Fersen)
Charles, archduke of Austria, duke of Teschen
After her father and brothers died, there was an attempt to marry her to Fernando VII, as a way of him claiming Navarre through her. The duke of Teschen had been proposed with the intention of getting Lorraine by the same method.
Parma, on the other hand, was originally proposed for Maria Amelia of Spain, however, he found her too shy, too clumsy and too withdrawn and preferred her sister, Maria Luisa. That said, her parents hastily arranged a match between Amelia and her uncle, Infante Antonio, although the original deal had been Parma to marry Amelia, whilst Antonio was to marry one of Parma's sisters.
Would Louis Joseph, still die in 1789? In 1786, the fevers, that had been affecting the young king for years had returned but his household regarded them as being of no importance. These fevers however were the first signs of tuberculosis
Would the Royal household be quick to disregard the fever's when the Kings life is in their hands?
Although I would agree with Kellan Sullivan that Marie-Thérèse would be better suited to marry a foreign royal who could influence the country and lend support if needed.
Louis Philippe as husband for Madame Royale is a match really unlikely. He is too much down on the line for her.
The most logical matches for Marie Therese Charlotte are either a foreign heir (likely the crown prince of Naples) or a internal match with her OTL husband... The Duke of Angouleme is the only acceptable French match for Madame Royale and the only foreign acceptable is a ruler or a heir. She need to marry someone of higher rank than Archduke Charles and Louis Philippe d'Orleans.
The most logical matches for Marie Therese Charlotte are either a foreign heir (likely the crown prince of Naples) or a internal match with her OTL husband... The Duke of Angouleme is the only acceptable French match for Madame Royale and the only foreign acceptable is a ruler or a heir. She need to marry someone of higher rank than Archduke Charles and Louis Philippe d'Orleans.
Well, Teschen was proposed OTL only once while she was still at Versailles, and that was with the understanding that he would be given the Austrian Netherlands to rule when AD Maria Christine died. The next time Charles was proposed, was when MT was in exile in Vienna and Austria wanted Lorraine back.