AHC: Stalin in The Axis, Mussolini in The Allies
- Thread starter woweed
- Start date
The easiest solution is for the Allies to declare war on the Soviet Union over its invasion of Poland or Finland or launch the [stupid] Operation Pike that brings the Soviet Union into the Axis and Mussolini decides to join the Allies out of his anti communism. Or WW2 over different factors such as Communism et. might do the trick.
OK, so now what happens? Stalin was a big part of why The Allies won, but they now have Mussolini...
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Well, taking in consideration that Hitler will surely don't want Red Army unit in German soil we can forget direct help in the invasion of French; this in conjunction with the Italian enter at the Allied side mean a Germany occupied in a two front war, a situation that for now she is not equipped.
Basically the need to guard the south will divert enough land and air asset to get a big wrench in the Werchmatch plan.
On the Allied side or better the reformed Stresa Front, Italy for all his military limit mean that the Mediterrean is now an allied lake and there is no African front; the italian air force is more aggressive than the French one and will not really shy from launch bomber mission...sure it will not very effective still the Luftwaffe will need to defend and counterattack and the italian penisula is a good point for launching raid for the RAF.
In land a defensive war in mountain is what the italian army is trained and equipped and at this we need to add the terrain that greatly favor the defender (and make the use of tank very difficult) and the fortification that Benny build there just to be sure...basically the German will face a maginot line that can't be bypassed.
On the Russian side, well the problem is that in 39 the Red Army, thanks to the purge of uncle Joe, a mess with obsolete equipment (the main battle tank is the T-26 that even the anti-tank version of the tankette L3/33 can succesfully engage) and in general need to vast reform (OTL were not completed even at the time of Barbarossa)...add the attack on Baku that even if incapable of destroy or severerly damage the place will surely cause enough damage to slow the place hampering the Red Army operations.
Principals directive of attack for the Russian will be Persia and Balkan with maybe an operation through Afghanist towards India (but is more probable a diversion attack); Finland can be easily convinced by the Allied to aid against Russia a la continuation war.
How long until Germany stabs the Soviets in the back as per OTL? Because to be frank, Nazi Germany is never going to maintain the USSR as a major ally for long, a good chunk of their ideology revolved around subjegating or eradicating the sub-human slavs, annexing the Eastern territories to create a self-sufficient Germany and destroying Bolshevism. I cannot imagine that Germany would stomach Soviet soldiers in their territory, and vice versa so I doubt you'd see much direct military co-operation, it's have to be an economic relationship, a strained one at best... I don't see it lasting at all, it'd be an "enemy of my enemy" sort of deal. Mussolini in the Allies. I guess you'd have to curb his ambitions for Abyssinia (somehow), because he was no fan of Hitler, but you're going to need a few changes to get Italy in the Allied camp but may not be completely undoable.
thaddeus
Donor
have a Molotov-Ribbentrop-Tojo Pact to end Soviet-Japanese border war and open commercial trade between the three (and spell out division of Poland and China?)
then maybe the Allies declare war on Soviets over Poland because they see less chance to bring them to Allied side?
Germany moves to control Balkans, including my scenario of a division of Romania https://www.alternatehistory.com/discussion/showthread.php?t=330916 (that includes the Soviets taking more than IOTL)
not sure that moves Italy from remaining neutral though?
IMO the Soviet war effort would be to occupy Iran and supply oil and other resources to Germany and Japan, though Afghanistan is a possible.
Italy still being an ally of the UK and France might have actually prevented the war as Adolf would have felt "fenced in" as even though he is ahem allied to the USSR it's only temporary and Stalin is no fool. As for Italy as a war ally, it's a bit of a paper tiger under fascism. Improve the kit, reform the army, have different generals and for heavens sake sort out your logistics which could be abysmal at times!
I can't see a scenario where the Soviets and the Germans are working in each other interests. It'd be an alliance of convenience at best, I don't think the USSR would be making a huge effort just to help supply Germany's war effort. Stalin would most likely be providing minimal assistance to Germany keeping the WAllies at a distance, and hope Germany bleeds itself white fighting France and Britain. Same goes for the Nazi's, back-stabbing the USSR is going to happen, Nazi Germany's long-term goals necessitated the destruction of the USSR they'd be looking for any signs of over-extension or distraction. They'd both fight the Allies, while preparing to do each other in which I think would itself limit co-operation dramatically. The Japanese were also vehemently anti-communist and would not be at all happy with the USSR messing with their "clay" in China. This Alliance would collapse very quickly.
I wonder what might happen to Spain..?
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thaddeus
Donor
part of the negotiations for USSR in the Axis dealt with selling oil to Japan IIRC.
and they did maintain a cold peace the duration of the war in Europe.
would allow for flights between Berlin and Tokyo, MAYBE closer cooperation.
wouldn't think of USSR as ALLY, more like three crime families that do business together on occasion?
Italy remains in the Stresa Front. Stalin and Hitler hate each other so much that I could never see them ever allying. Hitler believed that communists were as bad as the Jews and Stalin is raving lunatic who starved millions of Ukrainians, purged anyone who posed a threat and sent thousands to the gulags.
MalcontentRex
Banned
The first one was OTL, until Hitler stabbed him in the back. The latter came somewhat close to happening in summer 1943.