WI: Meade dies at Gettysburg on the 3rd day. What happens next?

So after posting the question before and having it turn into more or less a debate on how Meade dies i'll post it again. So during the opening bombardment before Pickett's Charge the house Meade is in get's hit and kills him. Things proceed like the OTL until after the charge when Meade's death finally makes the rounds and is reported to Washington. Whoever is next if line takes over the AotP in the interim until Lincoln chooses the next general. My question is who does he end up choosing and what effect does Meade's death have on the war?
 

jahenders

Banned
Presumably Slocum (senior amongst the Corps commanders and briefly in overall charge until Meade arrived) would take command on the battlefield. He had been criticized for being slow to get his troops to the battle, so it's unlcear how aggressive he would have been in pursuing Lee. On the one hand, he had a history of slow caution, but on the other hand, stung by recent criticism, he might have pursued aggressively.

Lincoln would probably have keep Slocum as acting and then had Grant choose a permanent head for the Army of the Potomac as soon as he was in place. Not sure it would have made a significant difference as later in the war Grant was always "looking over their shoulder"
 
I dont think the AOP could attack Lee since they also were badly beaten up

You know I've always wondered how that factored into Meade's decision to not pursue Lee all that aggressively. Both sides took the bloodiest mauling of the entire war and were most likely exhausted from the 3 days of intense fighting.
 

jahenders

Banned
I love the "Active History" Gettysburg series (below) by Newt Gingrich and Forstchen. They are historically sound and posit a single altered decision (in the case of Gettysburg, it's Longstreet convincing Lee not to attack at Gettysburg but, instead, shift to a defensive position and force the Union to attack.

Their D-Day series (positing a 3rd wave at Pearl Harbor is also good).

http://www.amazon.com/Gettysburg-No...413829491&sr=1-1&keywords=gettysburg+gingrich


I think Peter Tsouras Gettysburg ...

http://www.amazon.com/Gettysburg-Al...qid=1413819783&sr=1-23&keywords=tsouras+peter

... covers this. And its one of the better Gettysburg what ifs, and a good read as well. Although personally prefer his earlier Disaster at D-Day and it is noticeably superior than some of his later work!
 

jahenders

Banned
I think most historians feel the AOP COULD have pursued and caught Lee's army before, or as, it crossed the river, causing severe damage. The AOP had suffered, but not nearly as bad as Lee's and it had momentum, supply, etc. IIRC, Lincoln chided Meade for not doing so.

You know I've always wondered how that factored into Meade's decision to not pursue Lee all that aggressively. Both sides took the bloodiest mauling of the entire war and were most likely exhausted from the 3 days of intense fighting.
 
Hancock

There could be a good case for Hancock to take command if Meade is killed. It also might bring Gen. Couch and some of his troops back in the fold (he didn't want to serve under Hooker while he was commander of the AoP and was transferred to serve as the militia commander of Pennsylvania). So some of the casualties could have been replaced fairly quickly (with some training, of course).
 
There could be a good case for Hancock to take command if Meade is killed. It also might bring Gen. Couch and some of his troops back in the fold (he didn't want to serve under Hooker while he was commander of the AoP and was transferred to serve as the militia commander of Pennsylvania). So some of the casualties could have been replaced fairly quickly (with some training, of course).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1xoFsQJjNBQ 4:28 in you get the reason why not
 
Assuming the same command casualties their is not a single Commander with a aggressive bone in their body in able to led. The army of the Potomac remaining leaders where not in my opinion capable of leading a army with 4 of it"s corps under new or inexperienced leaders and with the remaining leaders not known for offensive leadership. Another issue is that Meade ordered most of the Army supplies back aboult a day away including food so at least a day would be needed to resupply before anything could be done.
 
From a quick look on Wikipedia, both Slocum and Sedgwick appear to have the same date of elevation to rank of Major General. I am not sure if Slocum had some kind of tiebreaker over Sedgwick. I am not sure that either one of them is likely to do better than Meade, and if you assume that Grant still rises to position of The Big Guy, it may make little difference as to whom (Meade in OTL, or Slocum / Sedgwick in TTL) is named commander AoP.

jahenders - I suppose I agree the ANV could have taken some more hurt during the retreat, so I need to either get back to work or update my sig.
 

jahenders

Banned
Actually as I review the dates of rank, Sedgwick does have an earlier date of rank to Maj Gen (4 Jul 62) vs Slocum (25 Jul 62, so he would be senior. My thinking was based on the fact that Slocum was senior on the battlefield before Mead (and Sedgwick) arrived.

From what I've read Sedgwick was considered very capable, but not very aggressive. When he died at Spotsylvania Courthouse in 1864, Grant said he was a tremenous loss, and Lee expressed sadness at the loss of an old friend. Interestingly, he died leading pretty bravely (or foolishly), walking around in the open, chiding his men for running about to dodge bullets.

Anyway, I guess the point remains the same, it's unclear whether any (temporary) Union commander after Meade's fall would be any more aggressive at pursuing Lee. I guess one could concoct a supposition where Sedgwick does pursue aggressively, but you'd really have to get into his mindset to argue persuasively that's likely.

From a quick look on Wikipedia, both Slocum and Sedgwick appear to have the same date of elevation to rank of Major General. I am not sure if Slocum had some kind of tiebreaker over Sedgwick. I am not sure that either one of them is likely to do better than Meade, and if you assume that Grant still rises to position of The Big Guy, it may make little difference as to whom (Meade in OTL, or Slocum / Sedgwick in TTL) is named commander AoP.

jahenders - I suppose I agree the ANV could have taken some more hurt during the retreat, so I need to either get back to work or update my sig.
 
My assumption would be if Meade is killed, Hancock would not be riding around on the front lines; he would be coordinating with other division and corps commanders on preparing a response once the charge is repulsed.

Well I did state that thing proceed along the OTL until after the charge.
 

Anaxagoras

Banned
The battle is still a Union defensive victory and I don't see Slocum being any more aggressive in pursuit than Meade was.
 
The battle is still a Union defensive victory and I don't see Slocum being any more aggressive in pursuit than Meade was.

The third day was going to end in a victory outside some ASB influence. I also agree that however took charge in the interim would at best pursue Lee as hard as Meade did in the OTL. What i'm really interested though with this question is who Lincoln ends up choosing to lead the AotP when the news reaches him.
 

jahenders

Banned
I think there are 4 main choices from what I can see. He could:
1) Appoint Sedgwick, already on the field, experienced with the Army, and probably in acting command.

2) Appoint Grant and orders him to move to meet the AotP, as soon as he gets news of Gettysburg and Vicksburg

3) Appoint Slocum, or one of the other Corps commanders, over Sedgwick if he, or Winfield Scott, thinks they'll do better than Sedgwick.

4) He recalls one of the other generals he's already fired.

#1 seems most likely.

The third day was going to end in a victory outside some ASB influence. I also agree that however took charge in the interim would at best pursue Lee as hard as Meade did in the OTL. What i'm really interested though with this question is who Lincoln ends up choosing to lead the AotP when the news reaches him.
 
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