What if Henry VIII's son Edward VI doesn't die in 1547?

BigDave1967

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What do you think would have happened if Edward VI lived past 1547? I remember the movie Lady Jane about Jane Grey where Jane and Edward were friends. I think there might have been the possibility that He would have married Jane Grey. Which would have given the Grey family a chance to try to manipulate the King. I think Edward would have freed his half sisters from pretty much house arrest. Mary and Elizabeth each could have very well tried to come up with plans to remove him as to put either one of them on the throne.
 
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Mary, being Catholic, certainly would plot against Edward's rule and try to overthrow the Anglican Church. I wonder if she would marry to Philip II of Spain in this scenario, since she wouldn't be the heir to the throne and as so wouldn't be as interesting. There wouldn't be an "easy path" for the Habsburgs to impose their rule over the British Isles.

Elizabeth, not being queen, could bear the suo jure title of Marquess of Pembroke just as Anne Boleyn. She'd have her way free to marry Dudley.

If Edward and Jane Grey marry, this probably would postpone the personal unification of crowns. Unless if Edward and Jane had an only daughter, for instance, who could marry James VI of Scotland instead of Anne of Denmark.
Butterflies: James, if born a girl and married to the heir of Edward, could've united the crowns under the Tudor house, and not Stuart.

I can figure the Anglican Church, under Edward's rule, gaining as much strength as IOTL under Elizabeth. Feared and hated by half of Europe, his legacy probably would be as lasting as hers.
 
The Anglican church, if Edward had survived to produce heirs, would be alot more Protestant, mabye even Puritan by modern day....unlike his sister, Elizabeth, he had much more fervor (and prompting) to make England a Protestant nation.....him and Mary tbh were kinda alot similar, just different religious views
 
I doubt Jane Grey would be Edward's bride; she doesn't really bring much to the table matrimonially.

Wiki suggests that Edward was betrothed to Elisabeth of Valois (a French princess who in OTL eventually married Philip II of Spain). She was OTL fertile enough to give Philip two daughters before she died.

I expect Edward would get involved in the French Wars of Religion and the Dutch Revolt more than Elizabeth did, and that the Church of England would have more Protestant influences. Cranmer would remain archbishop until he died of natural causes, so he would remain the driving force.
 
Wiki suggests that Edward was betrothed to Elisabeth of Valois (a French princess who in OTL eventually married Philip II of Spain). She was OTL fertile enough to give Philip two daughters before she died.

Uber-catholic french allowing a marriage to the uber-protestant Edward? I don't think so. Anyway, the only foreign wives of Henry VIII IOTL were Catherine of Aragon and Anne of Cleves. All his other wives were nobles from local nobility, just as Edward's mother, so I don't think that it'd be a problem for Edward to do it too.
 
The Anglican church, if Edward had survived to produce heirs, would be alot more Protestant, mabye even Puritan by modern day....unlike his sister, Elizabeth, he had much more fervor (and prompting) to make England a Protestant nation.....him and Mary tbh were kinda alot similar, just different religious views

yes under him the Church of England was very calvinist, though, unlike latter Calvinism in England it was also very pro-Royal, the King's coat of arms replaced the crucifix in Church for example, only under Mary did English Puritans start to rework their thinking on Monarchy, in Edward's CofE God placed the King as head of Church, if Edward lives and has heirs no reason for Puritans to rework their ideas of Monarchy and the Church
 
Mary, being Catholic, certainly would plot against Edward's rule and try to overthrow the Anglican Church.

She never did it while he was alive, and there is no indication that she ever considered the idea. No matter his religion, Edward was her legitimate brother and her King, and she was obbedient to him. The only order of him she never accepted was to not hold Mass in her house. I doubt she would ever start a rebellion to depose Edward - in fact, probably she would rather prefer to be a Catholic marthyr and die for her faith than try overthrow her brother.
Regarding marriage, I doubt that Edward would ever allow her to marry a foreigner, unless he is a reliable Protestant.
 
She never did it while he was alive, and there is no indication that she ever considered the idea. No matter his religion, Edward was her legitimate brother and her King, and she was obbedient to him. The only order of him she never accepted was to not hold Mass in her house. I doubt she would ever start a rebellion to depose Edward - in fact, probably she would rather prefer to be a Catholic marthyr and die for her faith than try overthrow her brother.
Regarding marriage, I doubt that Edward would ever allow her to marry a foreigner, unless he is a reliable Protestant.

Hmm Yes I guess you're right, my fault. Maybe I'm much too imaginative/conspiratory these days... However if he stayed longer in throne than IOTL, strenghting the Protestant policy started by his father, probably a stir led by radical Catholics would erupt. The anticipation of the Gunpower Plot: 'blow up the parliament and replace the heretic king with with the catholic girl'.

About Elizabeth, how many high protestants we had in England at the time that could've married her, being at the same time politically useful, close in age and handsome by the standards of the day?
 
A marriage with a Seymour wouldn't be off the cards, I don't know if Edward would demand a high-born Plantagenet scion for Elizabeth.
 
Aside from all this political marriage issue, what would be (if predictable) the other consequences of a likely adhesion by Edward to more radical/zealot/Puritan Anglican beliefs?
 
Aside from all this political marriage issue, what would be (if predictable) the other consequences of a likely adhesion by Edward to more radical/zealot/Puritan Anglican beliefs?

More drama in Ireland but a potential door to annexing/subjugating Scotland though.
 
Aside from all this political marriage issue, what would be (if predictable) the other consequences of a likely adhesion by Edward to more radical/zealot/Puritan Anglican beliefs?

The Churches of England and Scotland may have been united or at least very close in their articles of faith. The English Civil War perhaps could have been butterflied away entirely, since there was a significant religious component to it (broadly speaking, Royalists tended to be Anglican (or crypto-Catholic) while Parliamentarians tended to be Puritans). We would probably also see much less Puritan immigration to the New World, since there would be no religious motive. Non-Puritan Englishmen (whether Catholic or just more moderately Protestant) might look to emigrate, but it would be unclear whether a Puritan monarchy would tolerate them in its colonies.
 
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Uber-catholic french allowing a marriage to the uber-protestant Edward? I don't think so. Anyway, the only foreign wives of Henry VIII IOTL were Catherine of Aragon and Anne of Cleves. All his other wives were nobles from local nobility, just as Edward's mother, so I don't think that it'd be a problem for Edward to do it too.
France was hardly uber-Catholic in their foreign policy in the 16th century. They were perfectly willing to persecute domestic Protestants (although note that Henry III's daughter married the then-Protestant Henry of Bourbon), but foreign policy was actually generally pro-Protestant, anti-Hapsburg. At least one French prince was seriously considered as a match for Elizabeth I, for instance.

A French marriage to seal the peace with England (which had been allied with the Habsburgs in most of the recent Franco-Habsburg wars, even after Henry divorced his Habsburg wife and went Protestant) and detach them from their traditional Habsburg alliance makes perfect sense to me. Indeed, wiki associates the betrothal with a peace treaty ending the Anglo-French War of 1549-50.

The only way I see him marrying an English noble is if one of his guardians encourage him to marry one of their relatives in order to maintain power (which will be highly controversial and weaken Edward's position) or if he ends up like Edward IV, seducing ladies right and left until one can prove he offered her marriage.

But as for his domestic policy, it will probably depend on how ambitious he gets. He'll still have to deal with Catholic holdouts (of which there will still be a lot). He does have the advantage of being recognized as legitimate king by both Protestants and Catholics (since Catherine of Aragon died before Henry VIII married Jane Seymour), which will simplify his rule significantly (the Pope will be less likely to declare him illegitimate).
 
A French marriage to seal the peace with England (which had been allied with the Habsburgs in most of the recent Franco-Habsburg wars, even after Henry divorced his Habsburg wife and went Protestant) and detach them from their traditional Habsburg alliance makes perfect sense to me. Indeed, wiki associates the betrothal with a peace treaty ending the Anglo-French War of 1549-50.

In this case who'd be an option? The closest in age to Edward was Elisabeth of Valois, IOTL later married to Philip II of Spain, but she would be too young for him, being 8 years younger. Who else, then?

And a minor nitpick: Catherine of Aragon was not a Habsburg, she was a Trastámara. Emperor Charles V Habsburg was her nephew, being a son to Philip of Austria and Burgundy (a Habsburg) and Catherine's elder sister Joanna I of Castile and Aragon, 'The Mad'.
 
Well if Edward VI can live another five years then when he dies the crown will pass directly to Elizabeth I as Mary would've died from natural causes.
 
Again I'll recycle one of my old soc.history.what-if posts:

***

There is a discussion of what would have happened if Edward VI had lived
longer in Richard Rex, *The Tudors,* pp. 129-130. (Rex, Director of
Studies in History at Queens' College, Oxford, offers several interesting
counterfactuals in this book.)

"Had Edward VI survived, the history of England and of Europe would have
been vastly different. Although Mary Tudor, like many others as Catholic
as she, persuaded herself that the Protestant Reformation was little more
than a self-seeking conspiracy by a Court cabal, and that Edward would
repudiate it upon attaining his majority, she was quite wrong. That is
not to deny that the Protestant Reformation in England was a self-seeking
conspiracy by a Court cabal--even dedicated Protestants like Hugh Latimer
and Thomas Lever said as much, in sermons preached to the Court!--but it
was much, much more. For a start, it was an evangelical religious
movement offering a new heaven and a new earth, capable of inspiring its
followers to virtuous lives and heroic deaths. As Mary was to find, the
removal of the cabal and the withdrawal of royal support did not mean that
Protestantism would simply melt away like a morning frost. Even more
important, Protestantism was in a real sense Edward's religion. There was
no way that he would have repudiated it had he grown up. And once the
young zealot had taken personal control of his government, there is every
reason to believe that the Protestant politics of Somerset and
Northumberland would have been the keynote of his reign. He had been
groomed by Cranmer, Somerset, and Northumberland to be the champion of
European Protestantism, a sort of evangelical crusader. Even allowing him
the modest life expectancy of his father and grandfather, around fifty
years, he might have ruled England until the 1580s.

"A solidly Protestant England, united under a vigorous Tudor king, would
have been well placed to take advantage of the religious and political
chaos which spread through France and the Netherlands in the later
sixteenth century. Of course, not even under a vigorous and mature king
could England have threatened the hegemony of Spain under Philip II. But
it would certainly have shifted the balance of power, it would probably
have driven Spanish power back to the Pyrenees, and it might possibly have
established the total dominance of Protestantism in Northern Europe. With
England's political leadership and full royal support for the
international vision of Thomas Cranmer, who under these circumstances
would have become the veritable patriarch of European Protestantism, the
history of Protestantism itself might have been very different, a solid
ecclesiastical block in the north ranged against the Catholicism of the
south and the Orthodoxy of the east. As for England itself, thirty years
under a king as zealous as Edward would have resulted in a Protestantism
as dour and grey as anything ever seen in Scotland or Switzerland. 'Merry
England' would have come to an even more complete and sudden end. There
would have been no more cakes and ale, no Shakespeare, no Anglican choral
tradition... The future of England, to use some words at this time still
to be coined, would have been not 'Anglican' but 'Puritan". Yet it was
not to be. For Mary Tudor would in fact inherit the throne, and would thus
save not only English Catholicism, but even much that would later be part
of Anglicanism, much that we find it difficult to conceive the history of
England without..."

For a slightly skeptical view of some of Rex's counterfactuals, see the
review in *Times Higher Education*
http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/story.asp?storyCode=173512

"Rex poses some plausible counter-factuals: had Henry VIII died six months
earlier, England would have remained a Catholic country; had Edward VI
lived, England would not only have become thoroughly Protestant ('as dour
and grey as anything ever seen in Scotland or Switzerland'), but it might
have led a Protestant northern Europe against the Catholic south.

"This sense of contingency, depending on the particular views and
experiences of monarchs and on the kaleidoscopic shifts of faction, is
certainly the emergent orthodoxy of England's long 'Reformations'. But the
argument may undermine itself. Would a Catholic Privy Council really have
managed to sideline Edward VI's Protestantism, inculcated by evangelical
education? Equally, if Catholicism was so popular at ground level (an
essential building block in the now-orthodox revisionist argument), then
surely implementing a thorough Protestantisation would not have been so
easy even for a long-lived Edward VI?

"Indeed, Rex does not push his luck where Mary is concerned, given that
she was unlikely to bear children and so would have eventually been
succeeded by Elizabeth anyway. He resists the temptation to offer a vision
of a Catholic England to match his peroration on Edward, contenting
himself instead with the conclusion that, while 'she did not save England
for Roman Catholicism', she 'saved Roman Catholicism in England' because
she 'stopped the rot'.

"Perhaps, indeed, some sort of compromise such as the Anglicanism that
emerged under Elizabeth was the only possible solution. Elizabeth
recognised what neither her father nor her siblings could accept - that
securing uniform inner conversion to a single religious outlook was
impossible and was a recipe for endless division. Insisting only on
outward conformity offered the sole hope of some stability after three
decades of traumas. Perhaps Rex implicitly acknowledges this necessity, in
that his account of the Elizabethan settlement takes on a greater air of
inevitability than some historians would accept..."
 
In this case who'd be an option? The closest in age to Edward was Elisabeth of Valois, IOTL later married to Philip II of Spain, but she would be too young for him, being 8 years younger. Who else, then?

And a minor nitpick: Catherine of Aragon was not a Habsburg, she was a Trastámara. Emperor Charles V Habsburg was her nephew, being a son to Philip of Austria and Burgundy (a Habsburg) and Catherine's elder sister Joanna I of Castile and Aragon, 'The Mad'.
8 years isn't that big an age difference. He was originally betrothed to Mary, Queen of Scots, who was still 5 years younger. It's not great, but it's certainly an option; as said, Wiki supports it as having been agreed to in 1551 (and actually has 2 citations for the claim, although I can't check them). She married OTL in 1559 at the age of 14, so that's not too much longer to wait.

Now just because there's a betrothal, doesn't mean that it won't be broken. His first betrothal was, after all. 6 years (after his OTL death) is a long time, and any number of things could change. He could end up with a Habsburg (Ferdinand had several then-unmarried daughters of age) to shore up that alliance, or he could marry a foreign Protestant (no idea which one) to promote a greater Protestant alliance.

And yes, Catherine of Aragon wasn't a Habsburg, but for the purposes of 16th century geopolitics she represented a marital connection to the Habsburg bloc.
 
More drama in Ireland but a potential door to annexing/subjugating Scotland though.

Ireland would be a gigantic problem whoever was on the English throne but strangely it might have worked out better (for the English) under Edward VI than Elizabeth. The key problem under Elizabeth was that she pursued a policy that alienated the Irish while also being self destructively short sighted when it came to money.

If Edward was less miserly with the purse strings he might have been able to pursue a concillitary approach or (more likely given his faith) conduct a war much earlier against weaker opposition.
 
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