DBWI: What if the Franks invaded and conquered al-Andalus?

What if the Franks somehow managed to conquer al-Andalus?

The Franks were (as they still are) a fanatical, warlike, underdeveloped people with their strange backwards interpretation of Christianity, living at the edges of the civilized world in uninviting climates. Would al-Andalus ever recover from the Frankish conquest? Or would Frankish al-Analus be an impoverished third-world country like modern Frankish countries?
 

Cueg

Banned
Yeah, most likely. Christianity in Europe is a backwards set of dogmatic beliefs that does nothing but perpetuate human misery on this Earth. Sure, I know some here will get offended by my generalization, but you don't see those of the Islamic faith bombing civilians and making up a massive portion of the total number of terror attacks. Let us not forget the way they treat women, many of whom are de facto slaves.
The religion, and the people that practice it, were backwards then and are backwards now. Had the Franks conquered al-Andalus, the birthplace of Calculus and instrumental in the Second Islamic Golden Age, we would undoubtedly live in a more backwards world. To be completely honest, al-Andalus would suffer horrendously under a Frankish occupation. If you want that to change, you have to address the intolerance and utter hatred that is the Christian faith of Europe.
 
Yeah, most likely. Christianity in Europe is a backwards set of dogmatic beliefs that does nothing but perpetuate human misery on this Earth. Sure, I know some here will get offended by my generalization, but you don't see those of the Islamic faith bombing civilians and making up a massive portion of the total number of terror attacks. Let us not forget the way they treat women, many of whom are de facto slaves.
The religion, and the people that practice it, were backwards then and are backwards now. Had the Franks conquered al-Andalus, the birthplace of Calculus and instrumental in the Second Islamic Golden Age, we would undoubtedly live in a more backwards world. To be completely honest, al-Andalus would suffer horrendously under a Frankish occupation. If you want that to change, you have to address the intolerance and utter hatred that is the Christian faith of Europe.

Wow, that's very christianophobic of you. There are millions of christians fleeing poverty and warfare to find a better life in the Ummah and you racist middle easterners keep spurting these nonsense. (OOC: This could be a likely reply, lol)
 
Wow, that's very christianophobic of you. There are millions of christians fleeing poverty and warfare to find a better life in the Ummah and you racist middle easterners keep spurting these nonsense. (OOC: This could be a likely reply, lol)

If we keeping letting them in, the United Caliphate, Al-Andalus and Persia will end up just like the hell holes they came from, I dread to think of a society in which the Franks actually managed to cross the pyrenees successfully, probably end up some kind've clergy dominated theocracy. In fact I doubt they'd even bother to discover the New World, too busy burning witches or whatever.
 
Wow, that's very christianophobic of you. There are millions of christians fleeing poverty and warfare to find a better life in the Ummah and you racist middle easterners keep spurting these nonsense. (OOC: This could be a likely reply, lol)

Even the Muslim europeans want biblical law ,can't you liberals just accept that
 
Will you please stop calling everybody north of the Pyrenees and Alps Franks!
We in the Brythannic Union and our cousins in Scandinavia were never conquered by the Franks (West or East) nor ever part of one of their countries!

We have stable government and get on well with everybody.
 
Will you please stop calling everybody north of the Pyrenees and Alps Franks!
We in the Brythannic Union and our cousins in Scandinavia were never conquered by the Franks (West or East) nor ever part of one of their countries!

We have stable government and get on well with everybody.


But by muslim standard, the only decent Chirstian country is Byzantium. Your goverment maybe stable. But look at its human right violation history! The only thing that keeps you stable is your much needed iron and oil.
 
Cough, Copts, cough!
Our treatment of the Saecson Terrorists is positively lenient to the way they are being treated!
Nb Lost Freeway is right!
 
The discovery of the New World would likely have been quite different. True, the Mexica and the Inca were brought low by the New World Jihad, but their subject peoples who converted to Islam thrived. I'm not denying slavery took place, but as more converted, slavery lessened and lessened. Let's be honest here, in the Caliphate of New Al-Andalus, the native peoples are equal citizens with the descendants of the settlers, and have ministers in government. If Christians had settled the New World...well, unlike Muslims, Christians have never had any problems with enslaving even their co-religionists.

OOC: New Al-Andalus encompasses OTL Mexico, Texas, Central America, Venezuela, and Colombia, one of the major world powers. Also, take the statement about things being a bed of roses for the native peoples with a grain of salt ;) Not a mountain of salt, mind, but a definite grain.
 
What if the Franks somehow managed to conquer al-Andalus?

The Franks were (as they still are) a fanatical, warlike, underdeveloped people with their strange backwards interpretation of Christianity, living at the edges of the civilized world in uninviting climates. Would al-Andalus ever recover from the Frankish conquest? Or would Frankish al-Analus be an impoverished third-world country like modern Frankish countries?

You people are too biased against the Christians. They had a fascinating culture and a deep theology. Their monks were very skilled, and their art and music are otherworldly, almost inspired by the Compassionate. And remember, Old Rum was a Christian land, and it prospers still, though now under the guiding hand of the Caliph in Mecca and the Sultan in Naboliyya.

And consider what the Franks have gone through, from the Naiman Hordes in the 5th century and the Bubonic Plague in the 6th century to the fall of Rum in 857. Of course their lands are now broken.

---

And let's not treat the way Al-Andalus treated Jews lightly. The Golden Age of Islam also had its crimes.
 

Asami

Banned
Well, as long as states like Salian Germania exist, I have great doubt that the Christian world will get any better and liberal. The European Spring has changed some of that, but we have countries like Saxony embroiled in a never-ending civil war, there's the problems in Frisia where there's like, six different governments, and don't get me started on the problems it's causing for poor Magyaristan with the overwhelming numbers of Christians. At least they're large enough to offset it. I wouldn't put it past Janos to start rounding them up any day now -- look what he did to the Christian Tatars in Crimea and Zaporozhye. Their camps in Szibéria aren't just myths, people.

At least the Byzantines are civilized; but even they're increasingly authoritarian -- did you see the election last week? How did the ruling party win that much? Obviously rigged.

The crimes of the Dar al-Islam are serious, but the crimes of these Christians are even worse; I mean, how can they show such flagrant disregard for human rights and civil liberties? Disgusting. The Prophet (peace be upon him) wouldn't have tolerated such things, and he would've spread Islam to them by the sword and made them civilized. But those ages are gone now, and we must share our world with backwards snow barbarians.

There's a good reason why Islam managed to stick in Rome, and why the Byzantines share the Anatolian region with the Kipchaks, one of the more historically impressive Islamic civilizations, considering their heritage as a bunch of nomads. Kipchakia and Magyaristan are impressive, and they have the Islamic faith to thank for their status as world powers, quite frankly. If the Buddhist Hordes hadn't pushed the Magyars, Kipchaks and Cumans west, they would've languished in hell forever.
 
Last edited:
Well, as long as states like Salian Germania exist, I have great doubt that the Christian world will get any better and liberal. The European Spring has changed some of that, but we have countries like Saxony embroiled in a never-ending civil war, there's the problems in Frisia where there's like, six different governments, and don't get me started on the problems it's causing for poor Magyaristan with the overwhelming numbers of Christians.

At least the Byzantines are civilized; but even they're increasingly authoritarian -- did you see the election last week? How did the ruling party win that much? Obviously rigged.

The crimes of the Dar al-Islam are serious, but the crimes of these Christians are even worse; I mean, how can they show such flagrant disregard for human rights and civil liberties? Disgusting. The Prophet (peace be upon him) wouldn't have tolerated such things, and he would've spread Islam to them by the sword and made them civilized. But those ages are gone now, and we must share our world with backwards snow barbarians.

There's a good reason why Islam stuck in Rome, and why the Byzantines share the Anatolian region with the Kipchaks, one of the more historically impressive Islamic civilizations.

If only Naboliyya and Ifriqiya didn't get rid of the Holy Roman Emperor in their colonization schemes in the last century and caused this Kaysarate restoration madness. The House of Ludolf did what it could to keep the Empire whole. They were weak, but at least they were acknowledged legitimate Kaysars.
 

Asami

Banned
If only Naboliyya and Ifriqiya didn't get rid of the Holy Roman Emperor in their colonization schemes in the last century and caused this Kaysarate restoration madness.

The Hakim-Amjad[1] plan was regrettable indeed. The dismantling of the Ludolfing Empire[2] and the rise of the various "colonies" caused significant problems that continue today -- such as the rise of the Christian State; a bunch of murderous thugs, I'll tell you what. The Salians[3] in Germania took advantage of it and beat the other two tribes and created the blood-thirsty monarchy that funds Christian fundamentalism across the European plains to this day. They need to be stopped, but of course our governments would never do that.

(([1] Supposed to be the Sykes-Picot plan.
[2] The Ludolfing Empire = Ottoman Empire
[3] Saudi expy.))
 
Don't be so Christianophobic guys, Europe is a terrible place to live in and I don't doubt that their religion has to do with their current status, but on the other hand look at the Assyrians, they are doing very well despite being Christians.
 
The crimes of the Dar al-Islam are serious, but the crimes of these Christians are even worse; I mean, how can they show such flagrant disregard for human rights and civil liberties? Disgusting. The Prophet (peace be upon him) wouldn't have tolerated such things, and he would've spread Islam to them by the sword and made them civilized. But those ages are gone now, and we must share our world with backwards snow barbarians.

We Britannians highly resent being called "backwards snow barbarians". We have a strong and dynamic economy, an excellent human rights record, and our church is renowned for being very liberal. We are nothing like our continental cousins.

Also, it's rather ironic when you talk about "civilizing" us by force. You sound exactly like the Christian fundies.
 

Asami

Banned
We Britannians highly resent being called "backwards snow barbarians". We have a strong and dynamic economy, an excellent human rights record, and our church is renowned for being very liberal. We are nothing like our continental cousins.

Also, it's rather ironic when you talk about "civilizing" us by force. You sound exactly like the Christian fundies.

Wasn't calling you Britannians as "snow barbarians"; I was referring to the Faransi and Alamani, your uncivilized brethren.
 
Top