What if there was no civil war in Tawantinsuyu or the Inca Empire and for that reason they were able to repel the Spanish in their lands, would the Inca stay independent and try to continue to defend itself from European invaders or they try to ally with the Portuguese and be a Portuguese protectorate like Congo?
WI: The Inca repel the Spanish
- Thread starter kasumigenx
- Start date
In my opinion, if the Inca can survive the plague and internal strife long enough to stabilize, they don't need protecting. They're the closest thing to a Roman Empire pre-Columbian Americas ever had, and now they have access to guns if they trade slaves-- which they more than likely will.
But won't European disease ultimately weaken the empire irreparably? IIRC, the smallpox plague in the Incan empire preceded Pizarro's arrival
No nation or people has ever benefited from this trade with Europe. If anything this will make they're decline more drawn out instead of sudden.
Change the "Incas get hand cannons from the Chimu" part to "Spanish native auxiliars perform worse in battle" or "lucky slingshot kills some captain", anything to win the Battle of Cajamarca and capture some blacksmiths. Then the rest of the TL... well, it's quite similar to OTL but still great.
Ultimate Paragon
Banned
I think they might make alliances with European countries. I'm sure there are quite a few who'd like to humble the Hapsburgs.
An easy start would be if Cortez and his expedition are defeated by the Aztecs and arrested by the Spanish. That will stop people like Pizarro from being inspired to lead conquering expeditions for a while. OTL Cortez actually was nearly defeated a few times. This gives the Inca some reprieve to deal with their civil war and smallpox while the Spanish are still focusing on the Aztecs. And if Cortez is defeated, the Aztecs will probably crack down on the rebels who joined Cortez, making any future expedition difficult. After all, it was Cortez's native allies that really won him Mexico.
I don't think it's a matter of whether any of the European powers like France, England or Portugal would want to help the Incas. I'm sure they'd love to see their rivals and the most influential power in Europe at the time stumble over itself while trying to conquer a (in their eyes) primitive and underdeveloped kingdom in a far away land. It's more of a question of whether or not they actually can help the Incas.
The Inca Empire is on the Pacific coast, and in order for any assistance in the form of weapons or gold to be provided to them without passing through Spanish or hostile/uncharted native territory, any nation in Europe would have to cross the Atlantic, then circumnavigate South America and arrive at the Incan coast.
As for direct military help, I really don't think any of the European powers would be able to provide it as none of these powers had colonies within that general area to support an expedition. Supplies would run short very quickly, and the whole expedition would be a failure.
But you can ward off civil war. No one factor was responsible for the ultimate Incan defeat, but the fortuitous luck of Pizarro's timing may have been most crucial of all.
As it was, it took the Spanish 40 years to definitively defeat the Inca.
Debatable. As atrocious as it was, the African slave trade benefited the chieftains and kings who sold slaves to the Europeans. Recall that Africa was not colonized truly by Europeans until the 19th century, and many attribute that conquest not to the slave trade (which was almost extinct in Europe by this time), but because of industrialization and industrialized weapons that African tribes did not possess. If, for example, the Zulu peoples had access to the machine guns used by the British in the late 1800s, I doubt their colonization of the area would have been a success at all.
And drawn out is probably all the Inca need to survive. They are still reeling from the small pox epidemic that wiped out huge swathes of their population. If the Inca can buy enough time rebuild their population, which though decimated still greatly outnumbered that of the conquistadors, they stand a chance of lasting and modernizing with the rest of the Americas. The slaves they trade will be of conquered peoples, probably from the south, so the Inca population will eventually rebound enough so that an actual invasion of their territory is logistically impossible. We are talking about the Andes after all, not exactly the best place for European-style invasions.
scholar
Banned
I really do not get this assertion. There were several large African states, like the one ruled by Tippu Tip, which grew to great prominence, used the arms and funds received from Europe to carve out empires and increase their own domestic prominence, and used the slave trade to weaken their neighbors while increasing their own strength by selling excess slaves.
Many of these states even thrived up until the British turned against the trade and survived until European Powers sought to carve up the continent.
There is no question that the African slave trade was an abhorrent chapter in human history by any modern standard, that it resulted in an immeasurable traumatizing impact on the demographics of the country, and that it fundamentally altered the economic network that existed in Africa. However, that is not an excuse to revise history to make it so that no one benefited other than the self righteous Europeans. If African states did not profit from this trade, and profit immensely, then the trade would never have existed. Early attempts to force this trade failed spectacularly and the Europeans themselves were carried off as slaves. The sin of this trade is shared by Europeans and Africans, and so too were the profits. Profits that were only stopped when the trade itself fell out of favor and would later be forcibly abolished by outside powers.
If an equivalent of Francis Drake sailed to Peru some 40 years earlier, and if Pizarro (or equivalent)'s expedition was delayed some, it might be possible for NotDrake to leave some people behind and teach the Inca iron-working. OTL, it's rumoured that Drake left people behind as 'a colony' in New Albion, wherever that was, and given a possibly friendly, organized, state, might well do the same. Anything to singe the Spanish beard.
It would help if the Incas converted to Protestantism (especially Anglicanism) as that would be a big PR help, or at least pretended to be willing to listen...
It would help if the Incas converted to Protestantism (especially Anglicanism) as that would be a big PR help, or at least pretended to be willing to listen...
The Inca had already been hit by Smallpox the last Emperor and heir being kille by it leading to the Civil War...
...BUT since the Civil War was pretty much ended the battles and breakdown of infrastructure which lead to famine and worsening of the life expectancy which smallpox took advantage of to kill more people would not have happened. The Inca would have been much more able to bounce back.
