Challenge: Russonorwegian nation.

[Umbral]

Is there any way a Russonorwegian speaking nation could develop in the north of Scandinavia/Northwest Russia?

Said nation must be terriotrially secure, without holding territory south of Trondheim.

[Wendell]

Originally Posted by Umbral

Is there any way a Russonorwegian speaking nation could develop in the north of Scandinavia/Northwest Russia?

Said nation must be terriotrially secure, without holding territory south of Trondheim.

So, essentially, this nation has to sit entrely on the Kola?

I was about to propose a nation in a timeline that I'm developing (though have yet to post) that features among other things a bigger andbloodier war in 1904 and 1905. It is as a result of this conflict (essentially Germany, Britain and Japan against Russia) that a nation is formed called Biarmia (Bjarmaland) in what is today northern Russia.

[Fabilius]

Massive amount of Russians flee during a civilwar to Sweden, Finland and North Norway. Eventually they outnumber the original inhabitants.
They are treated as second class citizens and eventually they adapt to the scandinavian tongues yet keeping a lot of russian words.

A 100 years later they revolt and gain independence.

Now, before 2007, difficile.

How about placing the civil war in the beginning of 19th century, during the time that Russians have gained Finland.

A lot of refugees end up in Finland, especially north Finland. Some immigrate over to Sweden and north Norway.

Instability and a second civilwar in 1846 sees more refugees coming. Sweden invites some russians to come and work in Sweden which is now industrialising. (Does it work? maybe an earlier one).

...hmmm.

[Umbral]

There were some immigration from Finland to Northern Norway otl...

Originally Posted by Wendell

So, essentially, this nation has to sit entrely on the Kola?

I was about to propose a nation in a timeline that I'm developing (though have yet to post) that features among other things a bigger andbloodier war in 1904 and 1905. It is as a result of this conflict (essentially Germany, Britain and Japan against Russia) that a nation is formed called Biarmia (Bjarmaland) in what is today northern Russia.

Interesting. My sister married an OTL Bjarmlander. So I suppose some of my nices and nephews count. I suppose Arkhangelsk and that area would work too...

[Berra]

I guess that its something that might come out of the World Wars. Geograpicly at least. The Russian part of the suggested are was occupied by the allies during their interwention and they might set up this kind of state. The Norwegian part of the area on the other han was in Russian hands after WWII.

And the area could also be the base for a Lapplandic Empire.

[Mike Stearns]

Originally Posted by Berra

I guess that its something that might come out of the World Wars. Geograpicly at least. The Russian part of the suggested are was occupied by the allies during their interwention and they might set up this kind of state. The Norwegian part of the area on the other han was in Russian hands after WWII.

Yeah, that was my thinking. You could have the Soviets win the Winter War and take Finland. They could then use Finland as a jumping off point for an invasion of Nazi occupied Sweden and Norway, which they win and keep in until the break up of the Soviet Union in 1991.

[Max Sinister]

That would be too late too merge culture (except in Finnish Lappland, maybe). We need a pre-1900 POD.

[Wendell]

Originally Posted by Umbral

There were some immigration from Finland to Northern Norway otl...



Interesting. My sister married an OTL Bjarmlander. So I suppose some of my nices and nephews count. I suppose Arkhangelsk and that area would work too...

I'd expect such a nation to reach that far were it to be actually viable, yes.

[dunklerwald]

Originally Posted by Mike Stearns

Nazi occupied Sweden .

Uhu? are you making ATL out of ATL?

[nunya]

This challenge a little stupid..The Russonorsk identity was never nearly developed enough to serve as a separate nationality.Nobody who could understand Russonorsk(and there were never many,and most were mainly one occupation,fishermen)thought of there primary identity as "Russonorsk"
Further,it wasnt really a developed language one could speak about anything you wanted to,like Norwegian or Russian.It mainly had words like "fish" and stuff.And was only useful as a trading language between the Russians and Norwegians,so they could understand each other.

[Umbral]

Originally Posted by nunya

This challenge a little stupid..The Russonorsk identity was never nearly developed enough to serve as a separate nationality.Nobody who could understand Russonorsk(and there were never many,and most were mainly one occupation,fishermen)thought of there primary identity as "Russonorsk"
Further,it wasnt really a developed language one could speak about anything you wanted to,like Norwegian or Russian.It mainly had words like "fish" and stuff.And was only useful as a trading language between the Russians and Norwegians,so they could understand each other.

That does not make it more stupid, only more difficult.

The fact that the language was not heavily developed could simply mean that it could serve as a liguistic seed crystal to a mixed population.

I had some notions myself on this but nothing developed.

[xou]

Originally Posted by Umbral

Is there any way a Russonorwegian speaking nation could develop in the north of Scandinavia/Northwest Russia?

Said nation must be terriotrially secure, without holding territory south of Trondheim.

It`s not Russonorvegian nation. Its some norse and russian trader contact and lingva franka used in this contact. Or you tell me stories about some "lingva franka" nation on Mediterranean?