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  #81  
Old August 26th, 2013, 02:13 AM
herricks herricks is offline
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Originally Posted by FleetMac View Post
That's understandable; I live in San Antone,
hey i'm heading down there tomorrow. whats a good Texas/Reddirt station there? You knpw where they play Casey Donahew, Whiskey Myers, Josh abbot, & Kevin Fowler type music all the time not just on occasion
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  #82  
Old August 26th, 2013, 02:14 AM
PlatoonSgt PlatoonSgt is offline
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That's understandable; I live in San Antone, and while both country music and ranchero are rather popular here, I'd never before heard the two styles mixed quite so much until I moved to the city. And one thing to keep in mind if/when the Yankee capital shifts; there may be greater German influence on music as well, given that there were large numbers of immigrants from Germany and Scandinavia that settled in the Upper Midwest in the 1820s-40s, which I can see creating a distinctive musical melange if the center of national culture sees a shift further westward (not that NYC would let themselves end up second fiddle, of course ).

And hey, as long as there's no NoVA-equivalent (which I don't see happening, given the lack of carpetbaggers and whatnot), I'm fine with that. Hopefully Hampton Roads doesn't end up with the reputation it does IOTL, nor that the Chesapeake becomes one massive silt pit.
Very cool, I love going to San Antonio when I can. I live in Dallas, so our culture is a bit...washed out. But yes, I was actually thinking of significant German influence, especially as the United States attracts a lot of Catholic Germans and Poles after the formation of the Empire of Germany. Lots of crazy influences going on, which shows why butterflies are awesome. Chicago becomes a big mixing pot, though New York still stays top dog, as usual.

Also with butterfiles, Virginia (and Chesapeake in general) remains quite a bit better ITTL than OTL with a lot more national focus on the state and region. Richmond in particular gets a big boost and even a Greco-Roman revolution in architecture, which is always fun. I imagine Virginia's population is much larger ITTL as well, with its new status.
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  #83  
Old August 26th, 2013, 02:29 AM
FleetMac FleetMac is offline
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hey i'm heading down there tomorrow. whats a good Texas/Reddirt station there? You knpw where they play Casey Donahew, Whiskey Myers, Josh abbot, & Kevin Fowler type music all the time not just on occasion
I haven't found a station that only plays Texas country, just that the subgenre tends to be more prominent. 92.9 or 93.3 seem to be the closest to what you're looking for, in that they tend to play either "oldie" country or more Red-dirt compared to, say, 100.3.

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Very cool, I love going to San Antonio when I can. I live in Dallas, so our culture is a bit...washed out. But yes, I was actually thinking of significant German influence, especially as the United States attracts a lot of Catholic Germans and Poles after the formation of the Empire of Germany. Lots of crazy influences going on, which shows why butterflies are awesome. Chicago becomes a big mixing pot, though New York still stays top dog, as usual.

Also with butterfiles, Virginia (and Chesapeake in general) remains quite a bit better ITTL than OTL with a lot more national focus on the state and region. Richmond in particular gets a big boost and even a Greco-Roman revolution in architecture, which is always fun. I imagine Virginia's population is much larger ITTL as well, with its new status.
Personally I've gotten kinda sick of SA, but I can understand the appeal and would recommend it to visit (I guess living here for the better part of a decade can get under some peoples' skin). Personally, I'm a fan of East Texas since it reminds me the most of the Southeast in a lot of ways (weather and food, if nothing else). I figure that the USA may attract more Catholics than the CSA would, although there is a precedent of Southron Catholics both IOTL and here (Louisiana, Florida, etc.), as well as the more "exotic" faiths. And while Chicago and Ol' Gotham duke it out for financial/cultural Top Dog, I can see places like Boston really stumping for naval/merchant influence after losing ports like Jacksonville, Charleston, Newport News, etc.

The Neo-Classical thing has always been a distinctive staple of the state, so I can see it being pushed as Virginia's own "thing" the same way Louisiana has the Creole identity, Mississippi as one giant cotton field, Georgia as the "national norm" model, Texas Cowhands, etc. To me, I see Richmond adopting a "government town" label much as how D.C. has, for better or worse.
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  #84  
Old August 26th, 2013, 02:37 AM
PlatoonSgt PlatoonSgt is offline
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Personally I've gotten kinda sick of SA, but I can understand the appeal and would recommend it to visit (I guess living here for the better part of a decade can get under some peoples' skin). Personally, I'm a fan of East Texas since it reminds me the most of the Southeast in a lot of ways (weather and food, if nothing else). I figure that the USA may attract more Catholics than the CSA would, although there is a precedent of Southron Catholics both IOTL and here (Louisiana, Florida, etc.), as well as the more "exotic" faiths. And while Chicago and Ol' Gotham duke it out for financial/cultural Top Dog, I can see places like Boston really stumping for naval/merchant influence after losing ports like Jacksonville, Charleston, Newport News, etc.

The Neo-Classical thing has always been a distinctive staple of the state, so I can see it being pushed as Virginia's own "thing" the same way Louisiana has the Creole identity, Mississippi as one giant cotton field, Georgia as the "national norm" model, Texas Cowhands, etc. To me, I see Richmond adopting a "government town" label much as how D.C. has, for better or worse.
Yeah, the USA gets plenty of Catholics ITTL, and might even have a little bit of friction between Protestants and Catholics, especially in areas like Chicago where new German Catholics interact with old German Protestants. The CSA, meanwhile, would probably have less a complete national religion and rather a lot of sects with Protestantism in its many flavors being the largest. Also, funny that you compare Chicago and New York as Gotham, since The Dark Knight and (I think) Batman Begins had lots of filming in Chicago. You're also right in that Boston dukes it out for top port, along with Baltimore and Philadelphia (indirect accesses to the sea), and most especially Newark, which in some ways manages to get out of New York's shadow as a shipping port.

Yes, Neo-Classical being Virginia's "thing" seems about right. I can imagine them going monument-crazy, and even building a National Cathedral and all that in the city. It's definitely a happening place down the line, especially with a greater cultural influence and a swollen population compared to OTL.
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  #85  
Old August 26th, 2013, 02:38 AM
herricks herricks is offline
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I haven't found a station that only plays Texas country, just that the subgenre tends to be more prominent. 92.9 or 93.3 seem to be the closest to what you're looking for, in that they tend to play either "oldie" country or more Red-dirt compared to, say, 100.3.



I figure that the USA may attract more Catholics than the CSA would, although there is a precedent of Southron Catholics both IOTL and here (Louisiana, Florida, etc.),
thanks

& theres quite a few Catholics in Texas as well.
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  #86  
Old August 26th, 2013, 02:43 AM
PlatoonSgt PlatoonSgt is offline
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& theres quite a few Catholics in Texas as well.
As I'm aware, though I believe it's in the southern/western parts of the state, right? Though there's quite a few here in Dallas. I think Texas (maybe out of bias, but like half the readers here are Texan anyway) would end up being pretty influential in the CSA, mostly when oil is discovered and Houston becomes a major port for the petroleum trade, among other goods.
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  #87  
Old August 26th, 2013, 02:50 AM
herricks herricks is offline
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As I'm aware, though I believe it's in the southern/western parts of the state, right?

I think Texas (maybe out of bias, but like half the readers here are Texan anyway)
theres a bunch of Germans in the Hill Country aint there

now whats wrong with that
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  #88  
Old August 26th, 2013, 02:54 AM
PlatoonSgt PlatoonSgt is offline
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theres a bunch of Germans in the Hill Country aint there

now whats wrong with that
Yeah, that's true. I think we even have a Fredericksburg and the like. I had a professor from down there.

And the more Texas wanks the better, I say.
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  #89  
Old August 26th, 2013, 02:57 AM
FleetMac FleetMac is offline
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Not a dang thing's wrong with that . And yes, there's still some small amount of German spoken in places like Bulverde, Fredericksburg, Boerne, etc. (but it's almost an extinct dialect set). Still some of the best Sauerbraten I've ever had, not to mention the beer.

And since I consider Texas my adopted* home now, I can understand it taking a larger role in Dixie's well-being (not just as an oil bucket, either). Natural resources aside, it's a great destination to establish an electronics field in the same way that California has for the USA both IOTL and TTL (*Dallas actually seems a logical center to develop a computing/digital industry given what we know of the "Silicon Plain"). Incidentally, would Corpus Christi end up as an important naval installation, or not so much?

*Virginia's nice to visit and all, but it's changed too much for my liking to stay there outside of seeing relatives...note my crack against NoVA upthread . Besides, I think the place overall has grown on me, if not my current address per se.
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  #90  
Old August 26th, 2013, 03:00 AM
herricks herricks is offline
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Originally Posted by PlatoonSgt View Post
Yeah, that's true. I think we even have a Fredericksburg and the like. I had a professor from down there.

And the more Texas wanks the better, I say.
yeah there is a Fredericksburg Texas & its defiantly worth visiting. Its where Chester Nimitz was from

i had made a independent Texas TL though it died 6-9 months ago. now i got my own Confederate one
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  #91  
Old August 26th, 2013, 03:03 AM
herricks herricks is offline
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Not a dang thing's wrong with that . And yes, there's still some small amount of German spoken in places like Bulverde, Fredericksburg, Boerne, etc. (but it's almost an extinct dialect set). Still some of the best Sauerbraten I've ever had, not to mention the beer.

And since I consider Texas my adopted* home now, I can understand it taking a larger role in Dixie's well-being (not just as an oil bucket, either). Natural resources aside, it's a great destination to establish an electronics field in the same way that California has for the USA both IOTL and TTL (*Dallas actually seems a logical center to develop a computing/digital industry given what we know of the "Silicon Plain").

Incidentally, would Corpus Christi end up as an important naval installation, or not so much?
Shiner

eventually natural gas & wind too

prolly but i figure Galveston moreso
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  #92  
Old August 26th, 2013, 03:12 AM
PlatoonSgt PlatoonSgt is offline
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yeah there is a Fredericksburg Texas & its defiantly worth visiting. Its where Chester Nimitz was from

i had made a independent Texas TL though it died 6-9 months ago. now i got my own Confederate one
I've seen your Confederate one, and have it marked to read. I really have been meaning to get out and see more of the interesting little communities this state has to offer. It really is crazy.

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Originally Posted by FleetMac View Post
Not a dang thing's wrong with that . And yes, there's still some small amount of German spoken in places like Bulverde, Fredericksburg, Boerne, etc. (but it's almost an extinct dialect set). Still some of the best Sauerbraten I've ever had, not to mention the beer.

And since I consider Texas my adopted* home now, I can understand it taking a larger role in Dixie's well-being (not just as an oil bucket, either). Natural resources aside, it's a great destination to establish an electronics field in the same way that California has for the USA both IOTL and TTL (*Dallas actually seems a logical center to develop a computing/digital industry given what we know of the "Silicon Plain"). Incidentally, would Corpus Christi end up as an important naval installation, or not so much?

*Virginia's nice to visit and all, but it's changed too much for my liking to stay there outside of seeing relatives...note my crack against NoVA upthread . Besides, I think the place overall has grown on me, if not my current address per se.
Glad to know you feel at home here. And yes, even if it's not Dallas in-name, the Trinity River and smaller rivers that all meet around here will attract settlers at some point, and something will get big here. I believe Corpus Christi and Galveston will be major naval bases for Confederate operations in the Caribbean, especially as the ports will probably serve better than New Orleans for the same reasons they do OTL once ships get bigger. Though the east coast is big on Hampton Roads and Savannah, Georgia, which gets much bigger ITTL. It'll be fun once I get closer to modern-day to see all the shifts in the CSA.

EDIT: Turns out Dallas was founded in 1841 and incorporated as a city in February, 1856, 4 months before the POD, so I guess Dallas can play its role ITTL.

Last edited by PlatoonSgt; August 26th, 2013 at 01:47 PM..
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  #93  
Old August 26th, 2013, 07:31 PM
FleetMac FleetMac is offline
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Glad to know you feel at home here. And yes, even if it's not Dallas in-name, the Trinity River and smaller rivers that all meet around here will attract settlers at some point, and something will get big here. I believe Corpus Christi and Galveston will be major naval bases for Confederate operations in the Caribbean, especially as the ports will probably serve better than New Orleans for the same reasons they do OTL once ships get bigger. Though the east coast is big on Hampton Roads and Savannah, Georgia, which gets much bigger ITTL. It'll be fun once I get closer to modern-day to see all the shifts in the CSA.

EDIT: Turns out Dallas was founded in 1841 and incorporated as a city in February, 1856, 4 months before the POD, so I guess Dallas can play its role ITTL.
Good to hear about Dallas, although my interest was piqued regarding what else you'd call it. And regarding port size, I can see Nawlins being eclipsed by other towns on the coast in terms of shipping size, leaving it a music, business and cultural center more than anything else (and besides, there's all that merchant traffic on the Mississippi to fleece ).

Getting back to immigration patterns, am I to understand (based on your comment regarding musical influences) that most arrivals from places like Jamaica, Barbados, Trinidad, etc. will end up tending to settle in Dixie, or am I way off? And I noticed in that old map that Miami will still be founded; I'm not sure it'd necessarily be so important as a city, as most of its development was caused by transplanted Yankees (notably, Cincinatti's Julia Tuttle) during the late 19th.-early 20th. Centuries. That is, unless another source of development takes its place from within the South (not impossible, although I'd imagine the spelling might slightly different, given its NAMESAKE).

Last edited by FleetMac; August 26th, 2013 at 07:51 PM..
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  #94  
Old August 26th, 2013, 09:01 PM
PlatoonSgt PlatoonSgt is offline
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Good to hear about Dallas, although my interest was piqued regarding what else you'd call it. And regarding port size, I can see Nawlins being eclipsed by other towns on the coast in terms of shipping size, leaving it a music, business and cultural center more than anything else (and besides, there's all that merchant traffic on the Mississippi to fleece ).

Getting back to immigration patterns, am I to understand (based on your comment regarding musical influences) that most arrivals from places like Jamaica, Barbados, Trinidad, etc. will end up tending to settle in Dixie, or am I way off? And I noticed in that old map that Miami will still be founded; I'm not sure it'd necessarily be so important as a city, as most of its development was caused by transplanted Yankees (notably, Cincinatti's Julia Tuttle) during the late 19th.-early 20th. Centuries. That is, unless another source of development takes its place from within the South (not impossible, although I'd imagine the spelling might slightly different, given its NAMESAKE).
I think New Orleans, just by virtue of this TL, will remain one of the biggest southern cities well into the 20th and 21st centuries, though may be passed by Houston or St. Louis in size at some point, yes.

I had it in mind that Miami becomes a sort of haven for liberal whites who are more "Yankee" while Tampa is settled heavily by freed slaves. Miami then gets big from Caribbean trade and people. Though if it needs another name, I imagine just calling the whole place Dade is more "Americanized" than Miami.
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  #95  
Old August 26th, 2013, 09:49 PM
FleetMac FleetMac is offline
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Indeed, I can see a sort of "culture war" emerging between St. Louis, Atlanta, New Orleans and Houston once they've been established as competing centers of media, the arts, fashion, etc.

And as long as places like *Orlando, Pensacola, Jacksonville and the rest of Florida's panhandle aren't left short-handed, that sounds decent enough to me. I assume by "Yankee" in this context you just mean "left-leaning liberal Southrons who were way ahead of their time"?

I eagerly await the next update!
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  #96  
Old August 27th, 2013, 04:24 AM
PlatoonSgt PlatoonSgt is offline
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Indeed, I can see a sort of "culture war" emerging between St. Louis, Atlanta, New Orleans and Houston once they've been established as competing centers of media, the arts, fashion, etc.

And as long as places like *Orlando, Pensacola, Jacksonville and the rest of Florida's panhandle aren't left short-handed, that sounds decent enough to me. I assume by "Yankee" in this context you just mean "left-leaning liberal Southrons who were way ahead of their time"?

I eagerly await the next update!
I'll be sure to have several updates covering culture in Dixie, and the Southron who inhabit the land. Especially the big cities and some of the smaller, like Memphis, Birmingham, Richmond, and more.

I imagine northern Florida with Pensacola and Jacksonville being the big conservative white areas, with southern Florida around Miami and Tampa being the liberal areas. Which will create a very interesting state.

Also, just wanted to comment that the next update might take a little longer than the others, as I plan to go heavily into detail with just about every sport in North America: Baseball, association football, rugby union, basketball, hockey, boxing, and probably even horse racing. Just up until 1900, since I'll need a couple more updates (man this thing is going to be long) to cover everything. So expect an update in maybe five days to a week. I apologize for the slowness.

Last edited by PlatoonSgt; August 27th, 2013 at 04:49 AM..
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  #97  
Old August 27th, 2013, 01:11 PM
FleetMac FleetMac is offline
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Indeed, I'm glad to see that even the "small" cities are being given some coverage.

Regarding sports, which would you say are gonna be the top 3 or so in the USA? I figure baseball will reign supreme, but what of the rest? I'd ask regarding Confederate sports, but something tells me that I'll have to wait for that update
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  #98  
Old August 27th, 2013, 01:18 PM
PlatoonSgt PlatoonSgt is offline
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Indeed, I'm glad to see that even the "small" cities are being given some coverage.

Regarding sports, which would you say are gonna be the top 3 or so in the USA? I figure baseball will reign supreme, but what of the rest? I'd ask regarding Confederate sports, but something tells me that I'll have to wait for that update
I think baseball will be the biggest in the USA, followed by basketball, and then probably hockey in the cold, northern east and rugby union in the west. You're right about the CSA, but let's just say both of them have quite different sports from OTL.
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  #99  
Old August 28th, 2013, 03:48 AM
Texas Jack Texas Jack is offline
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Originally Posted by herricks View Post
yeah there is a Fredericksburg Texas & its defiantly worth visiting. Its where Chester Nimitz was from

i had made a independent Texas TL though it died 6-9 months ago. now i got my own Confederate one
You shouldn't have given up on it. It was great.
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  #100  
Old August 29th, 2013, 01:58 AM
herricks herricks is offline
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You shouldn't have given up on it. It was great.
wel thanks but my post WW2 plans for that TL turned out to not be very possible & I didn't wanna continue if i couldn't do it the way i wanted
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