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Old January 3rd, 2013, 12:54 AM
Ismailov Ismailov is offline
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WI: Ireland intervenes in The Troubles?

From what I understand Ireland basically took a "this is all unfortunate but violence isn't the answer" attitude towards The Troubles. What if it... didn't? What if it started giving vocal and/or financial backing to the paramilitary groups in Northern Ireland/Ulster or even threatened military action?
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Old January 3rd, 2013, 12:56 AM
EVC EVC is offline
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Ireland gets blasted back to the stone age
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Old January 3rd, 2013, 12:56 AM
Baconheimer Baconheimer is offline
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Old January 3rd, 2013, 12:57 AM
Hades Hades is offline
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Because the Irish military could only hold Newry for an afternoon before Britain crushes them, with NATO's full backing.
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Old January 3rd, 2013, 12:59 AM
Pangur Pangur is online now
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Jack Lynch did order a plan drawn up to intervene however sense pervailed and it was not acted on
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Old January 3rd, 2013, 01:00 AM
deathscompanion1 deathscompanion1 is offline
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For the thousandth time.

The plan was a paper designed as a not so subtle hint to the Politician's that intervention was a terrible idea.

The Republic was never going to really intervene and if they did it would not be with a conventional invasion.
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Old January 3rd, 2013, 01:13 AM
Pangur Pangur is online now
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For the thousandth time.

The plan was a paper designed as a not so subtle hint to the Politian's that intervention was a terrible idea.

The Republic was never going to really intervene and if they did it would not be with a conventional invasion.
Following on from that, check this link out

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exercise_Armageddon
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Old January 3rd, 2013, 01:14 AM
The Red The Red is offline
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The Irish probably got away with as much vocal/material support of the enemy of their largest trading partner as they could.

Short of Ireland joining the Warsaw Pact the threat of invasion would never be taken seriously by the British.
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Old January 3rd, 2013, 01:29 AM
Armored Diplomacy Armored Diplomacy is offline
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They named the plan "Operation Armageddon" for a reason. The Irish General Staff knew full well what the end result would be.

British military and paramilitary forces in Northern Ireland working together with local police would have been capable of dealing with any Irish invasion alone without any reinforcements.

The only thing the Irish would have hoped for would be to put up a good fight and inflict some significant casualties to keep Irish national pride intact.

Irish forces would be utterly smashed, but I don't think that the UK would retaliate inside the Republic, aside from maybe taking out Casement Aerodrome to neutralize the Irish Air Corps if it's flying sorties against the British.
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Old January 3rd, 2013, 02:01 AM
Ismailov Ismailov is offline
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Indeed.

Still interesting as a question though.
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Old January 3rd, 2013, 02:36 AM
deathscompanion1 deathscompanion1 is offline
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However the planners also accepted that only 2,136 troops out of 12,000 in the army were at actual combat readiness.[citation needed] The operation would leave the Republic of Ireland exposed to "retaliatory punitive military action by United Kingdom forces". The plan included a warning that: "The Defence Forces have no capability of embarking on unilateral military operation [sic] of any kind ... therefore any operations undertaken against Northern Ireland would be militarily unsound."[5]
I'll let the army explain.
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Old January 3rd, 2013, 05:17 AM
Abominable Princess Abominable Princess is online now
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It would end badly. Not only were the Brits more powerful than the Irish by many magnitudes, Northern Ireland itself did not want to be part of the Republic of Ireland, so even if Ireland somehow took the territory, it wouldn't be easy to hold.

What I would like to see is a scenario where Ireland hardcore cracks down on the IRA for starting so much crap.
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Old January 3rd, 2013, 06:08 AM
sparky42 sparky42 is offline
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What I would like to see is a scenario where Ireland hardcore cracks down on the IRA for starting so much crap.
That's not as easy as you think. Given the public view on things (ie burning down the British embassy after Bloody Sunday) there may not have been the political capability to aggressively suppress the IRA at that time.

Since it was well before my time all I can say as another example would be an rte show that showed clips of border crossings in 69 I think during the attacks on Catholics, it was like something you'd see at the Syrian border today. Lines of cars, minivans, buses loaded with people that had been forced from their homes. It would have been a huge issue for any Irish government to deal with
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Old January 3rd, 2013, 06:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Ismailov View Post
From what I understand Ireland basically took a "this is all unfortunate but violence isn't the answer" attitude towards The Troubles. What if it... didn't? What if it started giving vocal and/or financial backing to the paramilitary groups in Northern Ireland/Ulster or even threatened military action?
The chances are that in the early stages of the Troubles the nationalist paramilitaries did receive covert support from Dublin. Ie the Arms Crisis in 1970, but no the state would never have gone overt about this or tried to openly attack UK forces, there just wasn't the means to do so.

If in the late 1960's early 70's there was no political will to fund the needed support of the Irish defence forces how/why would they pick a fight with the UK.
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Old January 3rd, 2013, 07:07 AM
Enigmajones Enigmajones is offline
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Ireland would have literally nothing to gain from intervening in an already murky conflict.
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Old January 3rd, 2013, 07:19 AM
Bureaucromancer Bureaucromancer is offline
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On this note, has anyone seen the documentary on Operation Armageddon that was produced a few years back? I've seen a lot of references, but not so much as a reference as to where to get it short of the original run on Irish TV.
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Old January 3rd, 2013, 07:31 AM
sparky42 sparky42 is offline
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Originally Posted by Bureaucromancer View Post
On this note, has anyone seen the documentary on Operation Armageddon that was produced a few years back? I've seen a lot of references, but not so much as a reference as to where to get it short of the original run on Irish TV.
I watched when it was on but I'm not sure if rte put it up anywhere. The program was called If Lynch had invaded.
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Old January 3rd, 2013, 08:01 AM
The Oncoming Storm The Oncoming Storm is offline
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As others have said Lynch was bluffing to try and appease hardline elements in Fianna Fáil and show his "not standing idly by" comments weren't just rhetoric. He certainly wouldn't have followed through, at the most an Irish Army Field Hospital would have tried to cross the Border to give assistance to Catholics displaced by the rioting resulting in a polite stand off with the RUC and Customs Officers at the Killeen Border Crossing.

A more hardline Republican Taoiseach such as , God help us all, Neil Blaney may have given the orders for an invasion, but I suspect the Irish Army would have staged its own version of The Curragh Mutiny and refused to march on Ulster.
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Old January 3rd, 2013, 09:58 AM
sparky42 sparky42 is offline
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As others have said Lynch was bluffing to try and appease hardline elements in Fianna Fáil and show his "not standing idly by" comments weren't just rhetoric. He certainly wouldn't have followed through, at the most an Irish Army Field Hospital would have tried to cross the Border to give assistance to Catholics displaced by the rioting resulting in a polite stand off with the RUC and Customs Officers at the Killeen Border Crossing.

A more hardline Republican Taoiseach such as , God help us all, Neil Blaney may have given the orders for an invasion, but I suspect the Irish Army would have staged its own version of The Curragh Mutiny and refused to march on Ulster.
I'm guessing that if a Taoiseach ordered something like this the order would very quickly end up in the national news while the defence forces declared that of course they were going to comply. Just as soon as they got their WW2 surplus (or earlier) equipment operational. Which would take a while.
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Old January 3rd, 2013, 10:10 AM
Will Ritson Will Ritson is offline
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Originally Posted by Bureaucromancer View Post
On this note, has anyone seen the documentary on Operation Armageddon that was produced a few years back? I've seen a lot of references, but not so much as a reference as to where to get it short of the original run on Irish TV.
It used to be online somewhere as I watched it two years ago, but I assume RTE have taken it down.
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