WI: Ireland intervenes in The Troubles?

[Ismailov]

From what I understand Ireland basically took a "this is all unfortunate but violence isn't the answer" attitude towards The Troubles. What if it... didn't? What if it started giving vocal and/or financial backing to the paramilitary groups in Northern Ireland/Ulster or even threatened military action?

[erich von changstein]

Ireland gets blasted back to the stone age

[Baconheimer]

I know why you want to know this..

[Hades]

Because the Irish military could only hold Newry for an afternoon before Britain crushes them, with NATO's full backing.

[Pangur]

Jack Lynch did order a plan drawn up to intervene however sense pervailed and it was not acted on

[deathscompanion1]

For the thousandth time.

The plan was a paper designed as a not so subtle hint to the Politician's that intervention was a terrible idea.

The Republic was never going to really intervene and if they did it would not be with a conventional invasion.

[Pangur]

Originally Posted by deathscompanion1

For the thousandth time.

The plan was a paper designed as a not so subtle hint to the Politian's that intervention was a terrible idea.

The Republic was never going to really intervene and if they did it would not be with a conventional invasion.

Following on from that, check this link out

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exercise_Armageddon

[The Red]

The Irish probably got away with as much vocal/material support of the enemy of their largest trading partner as they could.

Short of Ireland joining the Warsaw Pact the threat of invasion would never be taken seriously by the British.

[Armored Diplomacy]

They named the plan "Operation Armageddon" for a reason. The Irish General Staff knew full well what the end result would be.

British military and paramilitary forces in Northern Ireland working together with local police would have been capable of dealing with any Irish invasion alone without any reinforcements.

The only thing the Irish would have hoped for would be to put up a good fight and inflict some significant casualties to keep Irish national pride intact.

Irish forces would be utterly smashed, but I don't think that the UK would retaliate inside the Republic, aside from maybe taking out Casement Aerodrome to neutralize the Irish Air Corps if it's flying sorties against the British.

[Ismailov]

Originally Posted by Baconheimer

I know why you want to know this..

Indeed.

Still interesting as a question though.

[deathscompanion1]

However the planners also accepted that only 2,136 troops out of 12,000 in the army were at actual combat readiness.[citation needed] The operation would leave the Republic of Ireland exposed to "retaliatory punitive military action by United Kingdom forces". The plan included a warning that: "The Defence Forces have no capability of embarking on unilateral military operation [sic] of any kind ... therefore any operations undertaken against Northern Ireland would be militarily unsound."[5]

I'll let the army explain.

[Kelsey Macailbert]

It would end badly. Not only were the Brits more powerful than the Irish by many magnitudes, Northern Ireland itself did not want to be part of the Republic of Ireland, so even if Ireland somehow took the territory, it wouldn't be easy to hold.

What I would like to see is a scenario where Ireland hardcore cracks down on the IRA for starting so much crap.

[sparky42]

Originally Posted by Kelsey Macailbert

What I would like to see is a scenario where Ireland hardcore cracks down on the IRA for starting so much crap.

That's not as easy as you think. Given the public view on things (ie burning down the British embassy after Bloody Sunday) there may not have been the political capability to aggressively suppress the IRA at that time.

Since it was well before my time all I can say as another example would be an rte show that showed clips of border crossings in 69 I think during the attacks on Catholics, it was like something you'd see at the Syrian border today. Lines of cars, minivans, buses loaded with people that had been forced from their homes. It would have been a huge issue for any Irish government to deal with

[sparky42]

Originally Posted by Ismailov

From what I understand Ireland basically took a "this is all unfortunate but violence isn't the answer" attitude towards The Troubles. What if it... didn't? What if it started giving vocal and/or financial backing to the paramilitary groups in Northern Ireland/Ulster or even threatened military action?

The chances are that in the early stages of the Troubles the nationalist paramilitaries did receive covert support from Dublin. Ie the Arms Crisis in 1970, but no the state would never have gone overt about this or tried to openly attack UK forces, there just wasn't the means to do so.

If in the late 1960's early 70's there was no political will to fund the needed support of the Irish defence forces how/why would they pick a fight with the UK.

[Enigmajones]

Ireland would have literally nothing to gain from intervening in an already murky conflict.

[Bureaucromancer]

On this note, has anyone seen the documentary on Operation Armageddon that was produced a few years back? I've seen a lot of references, but not so much as a reference as to where to get it short of the original run on Irish TV.

[sparky42]

Originally Posted by Bureaucromancer

On this note, has anyone seen the documentary on Operation Armageddon that was produced a few years back? I've seen a lot of references, but not so much as a reference as to where to get it short of the original run on Irish TV.

I watched when it was on but I'm not sure if rte put it up anywhere. The program was called If Lynch had invaded.

[The Oncoming Storm]

As others have said Lynch was bluffing to try and appease hardline elements in Fianna Fáil and show his "not standing idly by" comments weren't just rhetoric. He certainly wouldn't have followed through, at the most an Irish Army Field Hospital would have tried to cross the Border to give assistance to Catholics displaced by the rioting resulting in a polite stand off with the RUC and Customs Officers at the Killeen Border Crossing.

A more hardline Republican Taoiseach such as , God help us all, Neil Blaney may have given the orders for an invasion, but I suspect the Irish Army would have staged its own version of The Curragh Mutiny and refused to march on Ulster.

[sparky42]

Originally Posted by The Oncoming Storm

As others have said Lynch was bluffing to try and appease hardline elements in Fianna Fáil and show his "not standing idly by" comments weren't just rhetoric. He certainly wouldn't have followed through, at the most an Irish Army Field Hospital would have tried to cross the Border to give assistance to Catholics displaced by the rioting resulting in a polite stand off with the RUC and Customs Officers at the Killeen Border Crossing.

A more hardline Republican Taoiseach such as , God help us all, Neil Blaney may have given the orders for an invasion, but I suspect the Irish Army would have staged its own version of The Curragh Mutiny and refused to march on Ulster.

I'm guessing that if a Taoiseach ordered something like this the order would very quickly end up in the national news while the defence forces declared that of course they were going to comply. Just as soon as they got their WW2 surplus (or earlier) equipment operational. Which would take a while.

[Will Ritson]

Originally Posted by Bureaucromancer

On this note, has anyone seen the documentary on Operation Armageddon that was produced a few years back? I've seen a lot of references, but not so much as a reference as to where to get it short of the original run on Irish TV.

It used to be online somewhere as I watched it two years ago, but I assume RTE have taken it down.