Israel in Europe

[Herzen's love-child]

Originally Posted by B_Munro

Just a few thoughts:


6. I just question the essentialism that claims that a Jewish state elsewhere could never have worked because the Jews have some sort of mystical emotional tie to Israel blah blah blah. Jews have always been adaptable people: if Stalin pressured the Jews of Eastern Europe to move to an ethnically cleansed Prussia, I have no doubt they would have made a working country out of it, and within a couple generations become quite fond of it.

Bruce

Stalin's OTL Autonomous Jewish province in Siberia wasn't particularly successful:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_Autonomous_Oblast
Also, Stalin was quite capricious....

[RGB]

Originally Posted by Herzen's love-child

Stalin's OTL Autonomous Jewish province in Siberia wasn't particularly successful:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_Autonomous_Oblast
Also, Stalin was quite capricious....

Well, far and cold (unlike Prussia), but even so it was picking up steam before Stalin axed it.

So Jewish Prussia with full Soviet support, maybe. Without it, no way at all. And even then no guarantee of longevity.

[Herzen's love-child]

Originally Posted by RGB

Well, far and cold (unlike Prussia)

Have you been on the Baltic coast in Winter?

Originally Posted by RGB

So Jewish Prussia with full Soviet support, maybe. Without it, no way at all. And even then no guarantee of longevity.

Stalin gaveth and he was in the process of taketh-ing it away....

[RGB]

Originally Posted by Herzen's love-child

Have you been on the Baltic coast in Winter?

I've been to Jurmala and Klaipeda, both in Autumn. It's not as harsh as Tyumen is (but a lot wetter, of course). Birobidzhan makes Tyumen look pretty good.

[Iori]

Originally Posted by Zaius

Why did Koenigsberg retain its old name?

It was the largest city with the largest amount of Germans and their was a small anti-Nazi resistance movement lead by the native germans that would end-up being exaggerated later to prevent the mass forced expulsion of all the non-Jewish Germans, plus ALOT of the Jews that ended-up going their spoke German; Hebrew, while an official language never became more than a minority language ITTL version of Israel.

[Cook]

Originally Posted by Herzen's love-child

Stalin's OTL Autonomous Jewish province in Siberia wasn't particularly successful...

It wasn’t meant to be successful, it was meant to be a dumping ground for a people deemed politically unreliable and no longer required. The Jewish Soviet Socialist Republic, in the time when there was support for such a thing, was to be located in the Crimea. (Post #6, this thread.)

[Herzen's love-child]

Originally Posted by Cook

It wasn’t meant to be successful, it was meant to be a dumping ground for a people deemed politically unreliable and no longer required. The Jewish Soviet Socialist Republic, in the time when there was support for such a thing, was to be located in the Crimea. (Post #6, this thread.)

I guess my sarcasm wasn't transparent enough in my post...

[Cook]

Originally Posted by Herzen's love-child

I guess my sarcasm wasn't transparent enough in my post...

Apparently not. As a sarcastic reply to Munro’s statement it seems to fail since the J.A.O. was never more than a large gulag. A Jewish East Prussia or Crimea would have been at least as viable as any other Soviet state.

[Wendell]

Is there a source regarding Soviet designs for a Jewish SSR in the Crimea?

[Cook]

Originally Posted by Wendell

Is there a source regarding Soviet designs for a Jewish SSR in the Crimea?

There’s a number of reference sources for it online. Google ‘Jewish Antifascist Committee –Crimea’ or ‘Jewish Soviet Republic’ or the life and career of Vyacheslav Molotov. I’m trying to remember which of my books it is that covers it in detail.

Edit: Still can't remember which it is and haven't found it through brousing the indexes. Really begining to piss me off.

[Wolfpaw]

Sebag-Montefiore mentions Molotov's suggestion/apparent sympathy for a Jewish Crimean state in Court of the Red Tsar.

And I highly doubt that Hebrew is going to be the language of this state: the Soviets (and Leftist and tradition-minded Zionists) considered the use of Hebrew to be either reactionary or profane. Yiddish is far more likely to be the official language and will definitely be the language pushed by whatever Communist Bund the Soviets prop up.