Map Thread X

[metastasis_d]

Originally Posted by Atom

New Project. Expect more. Likely to make dedicated thread.

Awesome scenario and awesome map.

[metastasis_d]

Originally Posted by Iori

To break-up my only posting text, here's a snippet from the ASB thread I started earlier, showing Centramica (working name) and its major rivers.

Very strange. Do former beaches stay as extremely low points in the landmass, or are they raised as far as high tide, or what?

[Iori]

Originally Posted by metastasis_d

Very strange. Do former beaches stay as extremely low points in the landmass, or are they raised as far as high tide, or what?

They stay at the level they were at, so you have some points where the beaches are at the foot of gently rising hills and other places where they're at the bottom of hundred foot cliff faces and a small few that actually stay beaches as a result of smaller (as in not large enough to see on the Basemap) lakes.

[metastasis_d]

Originally Posted by Farkas

Like I said, unofficial. They could have been, and were founded by Americans. Unofficial, in this case, meaning not recognized to be.

Yeah. Ok. American Sabah it is then.

American Liberia (and possibly Socotra) are about the only plausible American colonies in Africa you'd be able to come up with without major explanations.

You might be able to butterfly a war with France, but remember that it'll likely involve a lot of other players, and they will want more pieces of Africa than the US can enforce. Namely the British.

Sabah is quite plausible; butterflies can probably take care of that.

You may be able to get away with Patagonia; I expect if you write this in a TL mention of major insurgencies from the Spanish colonial successors, though. That'll probably get the US to warm up to Colombia to access a canal.

Butterflying a war with France can give the US the French colonies in the Caribbean and French Guiana, I suppose, but they'll have to actually take the land if they want them in a peace agreement, leaving them very little available to take anything from the French in Africa. You may be able to get the US to reach New Caledonia before the French, or take the same in a war with them, but it's more likely that if the British are involved they'll get it first.

[xt828]

Originally Posted by metastasis_d

American Liberia (and possibly Socotra) are about the only plausible American colonies in Africa you'd be able to come up with without major explanations.

You might be able to butterfly a war with France, but remember that it'll likely involve a lot of other players, and they will want more pieces of Africa than the US can enforce. Namely the British.

Sabah is quite plausible; butterflies can probably take care of that.

You may be able to get away with Patagonia; I expect if you write this in a TL mention of major insurgencies from the Spanish colonial successors, though. That'll probably get the US to warm up to Colombia to access a canal.

Butterflying a war with France can give the US the French colonies in the Caribbean and French Guiana, I suppose, but they'll have to actually take the land if they want them in a peace agreement, leaving them very little available to take anything from the French in Africa. You may be able to get the US to reach New Caledonia before the French, or take the same in a war with them, but it's more likely that if the British are involved they'll get it first.

I think that for Pacific territories, the Americans run the risk of being forced into partitions like Samoa or condominiums like Anglo-French New Hebrides/Vanuatu with more prominent colonial powers.

It's not just that America wasn't as powerful or as capable of power projection, it's that it wasn't seen as being an equal with the European nations in the colonial enterprise. Also worth noting is the knock-on effects of colonies - an interesting one is that a colonial America will have to spend a ton of money on its navy to build trade cruisers, gunboats, riverine gunboats, and assorted other colonial craft, plus establish squadrons of reasonable strength at the various colonies.

[metastasis_d]

Originally Posted by xt828

I think that for Pacific territories, the Americans run the risk of being forced into partitions like Samoa or condominiums like Anglo-French New Hebrides/Vanuatu with more prominent colonial powers.

It's not just that America wasn't as powerful or as capable of power projection, it's that it wasn't seen as being an equal with the European nations in the colonial enterprise. Also worth noting is the knock-on effects of colonies - an interesting one is that a colonial America will have to spend a ton of money on its navy to build trade cruisers, gunboats, riverine gunboats, and assorted other colonial craft, plus establish squadrons of reasonable strength at the various colonies.

Yeah, and without the resources of their OTL gains from the Mexican-American war, all of this will be very hard.

[Pikers3]

Originally Posted by Joyeux

I felt like doing a European Federation map. So I did.
POD in... I don't know. I didn't think of one. So... something happens in the seventies...[filler]... greater European integration... [filler]... Federation by 2005... [filler]... present day

Your divisions of the UK, Ireland and Spain make me want to cry!!

[Alex Richards]

Originally Posted by Joyeux

I agree, I really messed up Great Britain (and, to a lesser extent, Ireland). I think I did those at around 1 in the morning. I briefly considered splitting Scotland east-west, but I thought that looked terrible.
The others on the continent are mostly fine, imo. Germany, for example, has it's otl present day internal boundaries for the most part, only difference is a few have been merged. Same with most of the other nations.
If I had been bothered I would have pulled out some population maps from somewhere and painstakingly transcribed them. But alas...
Still, I never really intended for each region to have equal populations, I based it of the US example where everyone gets the same representation, even the flyover states.

That seems unlikely. Things are much more likely to evolve organically from historical regional boundaries (Yorkshire, East Midlands, etc.) or be reoorganised to be roughly equal in population, or a mixture of both given the cultural differences between European and American attitudes to internal borders.

[The Germanator]

I'm back! After vanishing. Sorry, academia called. Anyway, here's quick mockup of the year 1890 a somewhat ASB-ish Germany-wank (what else would it be, look at my nick ). The only completely accurate areas are Europe and North/Central America (excluding, of course, the Caribbean), and when I'm done with this, not only will this follow a less awful colour scheme, but it'll also be on a Q-BAM.

And before you ask: Yes, that is a personal union between the German Empire and the Empire of Mexico, and no, the Second French Empire is *not* going away.

[Clandango]

Originally Posted by The Germanator

I'm back! After vanishing. Sorry, academia called. Anyway, here's quick mockup of the year 1890 a somewhat ASB-ish Germany-wank (what else would it be, look at my nick ). The only completely accurate areas are Europe and North/Central America (excluding, of course, the Caribbean), and when I'm done with this, not only will this follow a less awful colour scheme, but it'll also be on a Q-BAM.

And before you ask: Yes, that is a personal union between the German Empire and the Empire of Mexico, and no, the Second French Empire is *not* going away.

I will take it that an Austrian Prince died, leaving the German Emperor in charge of Austria. I see no other way. A Prussian Mexico would have taken a fifth of northern Belize by now.

[The Germanator]

Originally Posted by Clandango

I will take it that an Austrian Prince died, leaving the German Emperor in charge of Austria. I see no other way. A Prussian Mexico would have taken a fifth of northern Belize by now.

Nope, not quite. It's not a Prussian Germany. It's a Habsburg Germany. And, as I said, it's a tad on the ASB side. Some events prior to this (apart from the PoD) were just made to be a way they weren't IOTL, such as the strength of the Habsburg and French armed forces and some of the politics of Austria, the German microstates and France.

[Clandango]

Originally Posted by The Germanator

Nope, not quite. It's not a Prussian Germany. It's a Habsburg Germany. And, as I said, it's a tad on the ASB side. Some events prior to this (apart from the PoD) were just made to be a way they weren't IOTL, such as the strength of the Habsburg and French armed forces and some of the politics of Austria, the German microstates and France.

I mistyped, I meant the Mexican Emperor.

[The Germanator]

Originally Posted by Clandango

I mistyped, I meant the Mexican Emperor.

In that case, you're completely correct, yes.

Unfortunately, while the initial part of the timeline is ASB-ish, I want to keep the progression from 1870 pretty realistic, and no matter how I twist and turn it, considering that ITTL France and Germany are allied, I don't see how Germany keeps Mexico. The Monroe Doctrine would cause the USA to intervene sooner or later, even if they had no chance to during the Civil War, and Britain would jump at the chance to get rid of the German-French global powerhouse. Even if we get an alliance system, and an earlier WW1 is fought between the German-French side and the British-US side, I don't see any way for Germany to keep Mexico, which is a bit sad, but oh well.

[Opunium]

Russian protectocate of China!?

[MadMc]

Originally Posted by metastasis_d

American Liberia (and possibly Socotra) are about the only plausible American colonies in Africa you'd be able to come up with without major explanations.

I'm interested in Socotra, what American presence was there to warrant possible colonization?

[Heisenberg]

Originally Posted by The Germanator

Unfortunately, while the initial part of the timeline is ASB-ish, I want to keep the progression from 1870 pretty realistic,

Then you may want to revise North America. There's no way BC wouldn't be a province with a PoD in 1870. And it's highly, highly unlikely PEI and the Arctic Islands wouldn't come under the jurisdiction of Ottawa with an 1870 PoD as well.

[metastasis_d]

Originally Posted by MadMc

I'm interested in Socotra, what American presence was there to warrant possible colonization?

There isn't any, but it's an island that many European powers ignored up until the end of the 19th century. If the Americans want to colonize it, they may have little opposition (at first, anyway).

[The Germanator]

Originally Posted by Opunium

Russian protectocate of China!?

No, just the colour of China on the colour scheme I was using. Hence why I called it "awful".

Originally Posted by Heisenberg

Then you may want to revise North America. There's no way BC wouldn't be a province with a PoD in 1870. And it's highly, highly unlikely PEI and the Arctic Islands wouldn't come under the jurisdiction of Ottawa with an 1870 PoD as well.

The PoD is 1865, this is just a map of 1870. Regardless, it's not my fault, it was like that on the 1870 basemap. Then again, I was using one from 2009 or so.

[Klisz]

What CS is that?

[Clandango]

Originally Posted by The Germanator

In that case, you're completely correct, yes.

Unfortunately, while the initial part of the timeline is ASB-ish, I want to keep the progression from 1870 pretty realistic, and no matter how I twist and turn it, considering that ITTL France and Germany are allied, I don't see how Germany keeps Mexico. The Monroe Doctrine would cause the USA to intervene sooner or later, even if they had no chance to during the Civil War, and Britain would jump at the chance to get rid of the German-French global powerhouse. Even if we get an alliance system, and an earlier WW1 is fought between the German-French side and the British-US side, I don't see any way for Germany to keep Mexico, which is a bit sad, but oh well.

Reroute the immigration to the other countries in the America towards Mexico, maybe? Nah, that would only bring in millions of anti-monarchial people.