AHC improve the Romanian military in WW 2

[KACKO]

Originally Posted by cortz#9

It seems to me the best way to improve the Romanian military is to make an alliance with the Germans and Italians earlier. This way they'll be no interference with procurement of weapons from the Czechs or Belgium. They can maybe get a better deal on Sm79 bombers from Italy. They can also send army officers and pilots to train in Germany to improve leadership skills and tactical doctrine. Perhaps also sending their own version of the Condor Legion to SCW for combat experiance and forming a stronger bond with their Axis partners would improve their situation as well.

Well, that's what we know now. France was winner of WWI and everybody sent it's officers to schools over there.
What would help in my opinion is pushing Czech companies to manufacture in Romania. Skoda gun works, maybe CKD tractor and tank manufacturing with above mentioned Malaxa factory (but there Czechoslovakia had issue with espionage for Germany I believe). Maybe Tatra truck manufacturing in Romania or French Fiat trucks.

Romanians built around 1500 Ford trucks from parts imported from US, but after war started this was over.

Romanians also built Soviet 120 mm mortars which were also copied by Germany.

[AdA]

http://www.worldwar2.ro/

[cortz#9]

Originally Posted by KACKO

Well, that's what we know now. France was winner of WWI and everybody sent it's officers to schools over there.
What would help in my opinion is pushing Czech companies to manufacture in Romania. Skoda gun works, maybe CKD tractor and tank manufacturing with above mentioned Malaxa factory (but there Czechoslovakia had issue with espionage for Germany I believe). Maybe Tatra truck manufacturing in Romania or French Fiat trucks.

Romanians built around 1500 Ford trucks from parts imported from US, but after war started this was over.

I totally agree with you and admit my ideas are made with hindsight. nbcman's idea of trading oil for weapons is a good one too or better yet trade for manufacturing rights. I think most if not all the suggestions made on this thread so far could go a long ways of improving things for the Romanians and for the Germans as well. would also make a good TL.

[cortz#9]

Originally Posted by AdA

http://www.worldwar2.ro/

Interesting link AdA. My new found interest in the Itl. mil. is now spilling over to the Romanians. I've all ways heard good things about the Fins. but I think I'm going to read up on the Hungarians next.

[AdA]

Originally Posted by cortz#9

Interesting link AdA. My new found interest in the Itl. mil. is now spilling over to the Romanians. I've all ways heard good things about the Fins. but I think I'm going to read up on the Hungarians next.

Those smaller countries made some sound choices prewar (the Romainians went for the 47mm M36 At gun at a time when most countries were still going for 37/40mm underpowered guns, their divisonal artillery was good, etc. But they found out that in a time of crises, nobody sells the good stuff anymore, and efforts to get national tank production going in those countries mostly gave too little too late results. it would be interesting to imagine what the armies of WW2 would have been like with a more open export market.
As it was, the Hungarians were about to launch a very promissing design when the war ended, the TAS44M, that is a good starting point for one of AH regular "alternative Panther designs" threads...

[KACKO]

You guys should check Romanian Maresal jagdpanzer project. It is said it went far ahead and actually Germans used some ideas for their Hetzer program.

[cortz#9]

Originally Posted by AdA

Those smaller countries made some sound choices prewar (the Romainians went for the 47mm M36 At gun at a time when most countries were still going for 37/40mm underpowered guns, their divisonal artillery was good, etc. But they found out that in a time of crises, nobody sells the good stuff anymore, and efforts to get national tank production going in those countries mostly gave too little too late results. it would be interesting to imagine what the armies of WW2 would have been like with a more open export market.
As it was, the Hungarians were about to launch a very promissing design when the war ended, the TAS44M, that is a good starting point for one of AH regular "alternative Panther designs" threads...

That is an awesome pic do you have any more inf. on this design? I would love know more if you do. You should post it on this site http://www.alternatehistory.com/disc...218561&page=65 the guys there would find it very interesting.

[cortz#9]

Originally Posted by KACKO

You guys should check Romanian Maresal jagdpanzer project. It is said it went far ahead and actually Germans used some ideas for their Hetzer program.

I'm going to check that out sounds interesting. Thanks for the suggestion.

[AdA]

The romanians were at the time trying to produce their "Hetzer" using a mix of locally produced bits and pieces from other tanks and their 75mm Resita AT gun
http://ww2drawings.jexiste.fr/Files/...PG/Maresal.htm

[AdA]

Originally Posted by cortz#9

That is an awesome pic do you have any more inf. on this design? I would love know more if you do. You should post it on this site http://www.alternatehistory.com/disc...218561&page=65 the guys there would find it very interesting.

http://ww2drawings.jexiste.fr/Files/...ks/44M-TAS.htm

Get this issue of TnT magazine

[AdA]

The Hungarian Jagdpanther

[cortz#9]

Originally Posted by AdA

http://ww2drawings.jexiste.fr/Files/...ks/44M-TAS.htm

Get this issue of TnT magazine

I'm not familiar with this mag. do they have a website I can order from?

[AdA]

Originally Posted by cortz#9

I'm not familiar with this mag. do they have a website I can order from?

http://www.trucks-tanks.com/

I buy it on the newstands in Portugal for about 7€ every month. The special issues are a bit more expensive, round 12€. I also buy their naval LoS magazine. It's in French.

[cortz#9]

Originally Posted by AdA

http://www.trucks-tanks.com/

I buy it on the newstands in Portugal for about 7€ every month. The special issues are a bit more expensive, round 12€. I also buy their naval LoS magazine. It's in French.

Yeah I don't think they sell it here in the states, not to my knowledge that is. Pity I can't read French. I still might order a copy any ways. Thanks for the link.

[Michele]

Better equipment is always good, but it's icing on the cake when the Romanians actually were hard-pressed to give their actual OTL adequate equipment to all the units they raised.
More equipment, even if it has the actual, only adequate quality level, is the easy answer.
Note that hand in hand with this would go an opportunity of not being amputated just before the war. With the multiple territorial losses, the Romanians lost some 700,000 manpower slated for mobilisation, and had to scrap three infantry and three reserve divisions that were in the plans.
If they conserve those regions and have enough standard, actual OTL equipment to field all of the relative additional manpower - that's already a great improvement.

[cortz#9]

Originally Posted by Michele

Better equipment is always good, but it's icing on the cake when the Romanians actually were hard-pressed to give their actual OTL adequate equipment to all the units they raised.
More equipment, even if it has the actual, only adequate quality level, is the easy answer.
Note that hand in hand with this would go an opportunity of not being amputated just before the war. With the multiple territorial losses, the Romanians lost some 700,000 manpower slated for mobilisation, and had to scrap three infantry and three reserve divisions that were in the plans.
If they conserve those regions and have enough standard, actual OTL equipment to field all of the relative additional manpower - that's already a great improvement.

Do you think if Romania had formed an alliance with Germany and Italy earlier, the loss of territory and manpower would have been avoided? How would this effect the Molotov Ribbentrop treaty? would it be butterfly away?

[KACKO]

Originally Posted by cortz#9

Iwould also make a good TL.

Well I am working on one where Slovakia got bit more weapon industry moved in before 1938. Actually it had Skoda gun works and ZB rifle works moved. I added CKD works, Tatra and Avia just for fun of it (and actually most of these companies manufacture there shortly after war till late 90-ties). In 1939 CKD starts manufacturing ST-39 for Slovakia and Romania and in 1942 start manufacturing Skoda project T-25 which was follower of T-24 (http://en.valka.cz/viewtopic.php/t/36862) for Slovakia, Romania and Hungary with providing license. Also Slovakia keeps all industry in it's own hands and sells the weapons to Romania, Hungary plus it provides license rights too Romania.

Got stuck after some 250 pages.

[cortz#9]

Originally Posted by KACKO

Well I am working on one where Slovakia got bit more weapon industry moved in before 1938. Actually it had Skoda gun works and ZB rifle works moved. I added CKD works, Tatra and Avia just for fun of it (and actually most of these companies manufacture there shortly after war till late 90-ties). In 1939 CKD starts manufacturing ST-39 for Slovakia and Romania and in 1942 start manufacturing Skoda project T-25 which was follower of T-24 (http://en.valka.cz/viewtopic.php/t/36862) for Slovakia, Romania and Hungary with providing license. Also Slovakia keeps all industry in it's own hands and sells the weapons to Romania, Hungary plus it provides license rights too Romania.

Got stuck after some 250 pages.

sounds very interesting. If you ever post it I would appreciate a PM to let me know.

[KACKO]

Originally Posted by cortz#9

sounds very interesting. If you ever post it I would appreciate a PM to let me know.

Maybe I should start once how it will go.

[cortz#9]

Originally Posted by KACKO

Maybe I should start once how it will go.

Yeah go for it!