Anglo Saxon England Survives.

[Spitfiremk1]

And no. This isn't another "WI Harold wins at Hastings" thread. This is because, England in 1066 was not an Anglo Saxon country, but rather an Anglo-Nordic country.

So, my question is, if for ever reason the Vikings either never existed or focused on Eastern Europe or something, what would the consequences of of a purely Anglo Saxon England surviving without hundreds of years of Viking/Nordic invasions and occupations be for England as well as the rest of the British Isles and Western Europe? (at least until someone else decides to invade...)

I assume that in such a situation, if a united English state comes about, the North and the Midlands will be far more influential and prolific and I think the Englisc language and culture could be dominated more by the Mercians and Northumbrians rather than West Saxons, seeing as with no Viking invasion we have no Alfred and thus no domination of Wessex.

But what do you think?

[sendô]

Originally Posted by Spitfiremk1

I assume that in such a situation, if a united English state comes about, the North and the Midlands will be far more influential and prolific and I think the Englisc language and culture could be dominated more by the Mercians and Northumbrians rather than West Saxons, seeing as with no Viking invasion we have no Alfred and thus no domination of Wessex.

But what do you think?

I think that London, due to it's location close to mainland Europe, the coast and on a nice navigable river was always destined to dominate the British Isles. I can't see how this would change, and if England did become a backwards nation dominated by the northern Kingdoms then sooner or later someone else would invade, be it the French, Dutch, Spanish or whoever.

In any case, Anglo-Saxon England survived IOTL as the Anglo Saxons were the dominant race.

[Spitfiremk1]

Originally Posted by sendô

I think that London, due to it's location close to mainland Europe, the coast and on a nice navigable river was always destined to dominate the British Isles. I can't see how this would change, and if England did become a backwards nation dominated by the northern Kingdoms then sooner or later someone else would invade, be it the French, Dutch, Spanish or whoever.

In any case, Anglo-Saxon England survived IOTL as the Anglo Saxons were the dominant race.

How does no Vikings or a Northern dominated England inevitably lead to England becoming a backward nation? Northumbria before the Vikings was for example was going through a golden period of religious learning and artistic creativity (see Lindisfarne Gospels) and, despite whatever nearly 1000 years of Norman propaganda says, the Early Christian Anglo-Saxon kingdoms were just as advanced as any of their contemporary's on the European Continent at the time.

Also, although London is inevitably going to become a major trading centre and in most cases likely the capitol, it annoys me immensely that many people think that London or a city residing on London's OTL location is ALWAYS going to be the capital of ANY dominant British state (I think it should be listed as an AH cliche). Keep in mind that the London only became the capital during the reign of Edward the Confessor.

[Joyeux]

Originally Posted by sendô

I think that London, due to it's location close to mainland Europe, the coast and on a nice navigable river was always destined to dominate the British Isles.

An Anglo-Saxon England may be more Scandinavia oriented, or at least more oriented towards Germany, in which case, Hull could be a rather good place for a capital, it too has a nice little river.
Though somewhere in East Anglia could be a compromise.

Also...

an Anglo Saxon country, but rather an Anglo-Nordic country

Shouldn't this really say "Anglo-Saxon-Nordic"? As the "Anglo" comes from the Angles and the "Saxon" obviously comes from the Saxons, why replace one group but leave the other?

[Gannt the chartist]

Arguably England was one of the more sophisticated and advanced European states of the time anyway.

London's dominance is geographical and trading and that won't change. It probably does become the capital when the court settles if only because it is the easiest place to get to and a major source of taxation that needs to be kept an eye on.

One thing though is the designer feudalism introduced by William 1 with its great Earls with fractured lands as opposed to the large regional duchies of Europe there is the possibility of much longer periods of civil war earlier, most if not all of the major insurrections of the middle ages were the results of an accidental over mighty subject.