A More Personal Union

[DTF955Baseballfan]

Given the lack of latin American ports thanks to Ferdinand, I wonder if the Spanish will be the first to establish colonies in South Africa, to let them have something ont eh way to Asia. Of coruse, it will be a while yet to everyone recovers fromt eh Great War, but a vacuum has been left since there will be no Huguenots. OTOH, the Dutch could take the area anyway TTL, as they are a possible wild card with their great fleet.

A greater wild card might be Denmark. Flush off an incredible series of wins in the Great War, the Danes might feel the need to have something to keep their new empire together; what better than establishing bases elsewhere. They might be able to get more of the German states behind that than they would attacking their old nemesis Sweden, which is a fellow Protestant nation.

Much talk has rightfully been made about the viability oft eh Valois Empire over the long haul, but Denmark is just as likely to face concerns because traditional areas of concern (Sweden for Denmark, Italy and other European areas for France) will come into stark conflict with the fact that the new parts of the empire (German states for Denmark, England/Scotland for France) traditionally don't care about those battles.

[Positively Indecent]

Originally Posted by Tyg

Speaking of parliaments, the fact that the King is going to be rotating his time and that each kingdom will be in some measure left to manage its own affairs will be quite the boost to parliamentary government.

Is it too much to imagine that the Valois Empire could form a quasi-representative body focused on the King instead, with members partially selected by each parliament?

Like a cross between a Cabinet and a Kings council? It will be interesting how the administrate problems are overcome in the Valois Empire, Henry has already made it plain that he desires eventual full unification (although he won't be alive to see it).

[Alex Richards]

Originally Posted by DTF955Baseballfan

Given the lack of latin American ports thanks to Ferdinand, I wonder if the Spanish will be the first to establish colonies in South Africa, to let them have something ont eh way to Asia. Of coruse, it will be a while yet to everyone recovers fromt eh Great War, but a vacuum has been left since there will be no Huguenots. OTOH, the Dutch could take the area anyway TTL, as they are a possible wild card with their great fleet.

I'd point out that things in South America are rather sketchy. I'm highly doubtful, for example, that the Rio de la Plata is currently under Ferdinand's control. He's the most likely one to get control while Spain's sorting things out though.

Although the concept of Ferdinandist Authoritarian Mexico and Peru and liberal Urracist Argentina is a fun one.

[Thespitron 6000]

That's a very good map, Alex. I don't see any significant errors, so well done!

[Shnurre]

Originally Posted by Alex Richards

Probably still a ton of mistakes, but a little more polished.

Thank you a lot. This map is really helpfull. I can see only two minor errors:

1. Revel (Tallin), Narva and the area between them were directly incorporated into Russia. So they should not be a part of Livonian vassal of Russia, but a part of Russia proper.
2. Polotsk was also annexed by Russia. So the border of Russia and Lithuania should be shifted a little bit south in an area close to the common border of Russia, Livonia and Lithuania.

I'm not sure if this little mistakes worth redrawing the map, but they are certantly worth mentioning.

[Tyg]

Originally Posted by Positively Indecent

Like a cross between a Cabinet and a Kings council? It will be interesting how the administrate problems are overcome in the Valois Empire, Henry has already made it plain that he desires eventual full unification (although he won't be alive to see it).

I was thinking something along those lines, yes. Wasn't sure of the proper terms for it though, and in this case it'd probably have a unique name anyway.

It makes sense though that the King would (in theory) still hold most of the power, especially in France, and so would need to be advised by his parliaments in order to fashion a foreign policy that could suit them all.

[kaeim]

Originally Posted by Xgentis

It would be difficult to have a king too french with the education the prince is getting. Also the economic benefit of the union is not to be underestimated. Frankly I can't see how the King couls start a war without consulting each kingdom parliament.

Originally Posted by Tyg

Speaking of parliaments, the fact that the King is going to be rotating his time and that each kingdom will be in some measure left to manage its own affairs will be quite the boost to parliamentary government.

Is it too much to imagine that the Valois Empire could form a quasi-representative body focused on the King instead, with members partially selected by each parliament?

Originally Posted by Alex Richards

This is indeed an almost perfect situation for power to gradually devolve to the Parliament. We could have a wierd blend of a modern constitutional monarchy, coupled with the Medieval notion of a moving court in which the 'capital' is wherever the King happens to be at the moment.

Originally Posted by Positively Indecent

Like a cross between a Cabinet and a Kings council? It will be interesting how the administrate problems are overcome in the Valois Empire, Henry has already made it plain that he desires eventual full unification (although he won't be alive to see it).

Originally Posted by Tyg

It makes sense though that the King would (in theory) still hold most of the power, especially in France, and so would need to be advised by his parliaments in order to fashion a foreign policy that could suit them all.

Nice to see I've sparked up a bit of a debate

I was thinking more on this thread earlier, and began wondering whether Henri would be able to run Scotland effectively? Its still incredibly decentralised, and with an absentee king who will no doubt spend most of his time in England/France, it makes me wonder what Scotland can contribute? There doesn't seem to be much in terms of income coming from Scotland, as it was mentioned earlier that when Mary attempted to launch its own colony, she was forced to extract taxes? I don't know much about Scotland at this time, but if this isn't just an exception and is in fact very much the rule, then Scotland is essentially worthless in what it can contribute to the Personal Union.

In regards to seeing more powerful Parliaments, that's definately a possibility, but at the same time can go horribly wrong. Don't forget, the conception of a French Parliament appears to be very new, but its already trying to grab as much power as possible from Henri (I think this was mentioned several updates ago). We could see a constitutional crisis pretty soon in France, I suspect Henri's opened up a box full of snakes with this issue.

One thing that came to mind as I thought about this was that Philip II of Spain actually faced this very same problem which arguably contributed to Spain's OTL eclipse. When the union of Castile and Aragon came about under Ferdinand and Isabella, the governing institutions remained in place in each part. In Castile, the Parliament soon lost all of its powers as the Crown expanded its authority into the last Muslim owned lands, but in Aragon it remained powerful and suspicious of royal authority (there were actually three Parliaments in Aragon at any one time). When Spain went to war against Holland and France, she was unable to get the full subsidies and military force it should've been able to muster because the Aragonese (and Portugese) Parliaments refused to help Philip because it was against their interests as they saw it (Portugal was focused on its colonies while Aragon was focused on the Mediterranean).

I find it very unlikely that Henri will be able to unify the three kingdoms into one, as their interests are far too disperse for it to ever last. However, if Henri keeps each institution as it is and works with each as needed, eventually we may see the same situation occur as what happened to the Spanish Habsburgs, one Parliament giving Henri what he wants but the other two refusing to help as is their right.

[Xgentis]

Seems like you want to write the rest of the timeline yourself.

[kaeim]

Originally Posted by Xgentis

Seems like you want to write the rest of the timeline yourself.

Doubt I'd do it justice this is a masterpiece

[Thespitron 6000]

Canal Madness and Road Warriors

Europe 1602: The great drainage basin of the Loire comprises most of central France, and the river itself, although unreliable in periods of drought, is a major thoroughfare for commerce. However, France’s capital, and many of its major cities, are on the Loire’s sister river system, the Seine, and the only way to ship goods from towns along the Loire to Paris is to take them down the whole length of the river, out to sea, and then back up along the Seine. The only other option is an expensive and difficult portage, but France’s poor roads make this an unattractive option for large loads, and an impossible one for loads over a ton. However, the opening of the Loire river canal, under construction since 1580, connects for the first time the Loire and the Seine, cutting a month off transport time and drastically reducing the cost of shipping a load of cargo from Roanne to Paris. Almost overnight, trade booms as new markets open up for farmers in Central France. The canal cuts the cost of shipments not only to Paris but also Holland and England, as now merchants can avoid a lengthy trip down the Loire and up through the Channel. The economic boom is aided by Henri III’s decree that no tariff shall be levied on goods shipped along the canal.

The success of the Loire valley canal is sudden and noticeable. Accounts of it are reported to rulers across the continent, who see the potential for massive wealth in the construction of canals. Numerous projects are proposed in the next few years, and the “canal madness” won’t fully die off until the 1670s. Most of these projects are utterly fanciful, and never get off the ground. Others are more practical, but lack of funds stifle them. The most critical of these is a scheme floated in the court of Frederick II to construct a canal connecting the Oder to the Havel and thus the Elbe.

Transportation in general has always been a problem in Europe. Most roads are barely worthy of the name, and consist of little more than dirt tracks cut across the landscape. During the winter they turn to mud, and in the summer they turn to dust. Some of them are not even wide enough to accommodate the crude wagons that attempt to traverse them. As a result, trade is mainly by water. Barges on canals might only move at walking pace, but at least they get there. A man on horseback, dedicated and resolute, might make it from Calais to Paris in four days, but for most people on foot it can take two weeks--and given the rattling, stinking, cramped compartments of this era’s carriages, most people choose to go on foot. Also, the poor quality of the roads means that they can’t handle loads more than approximately a ton--and those are on the best-kept roads. Most transport of goods has to be done by mule, which is expensive and slow; only small objects of high value are worth transporting across Europe by land, for anything larger and less valuable will find that its sell price has been entirely eaten up by transit costs.

The joining of the Crowns under Henri III adds a new dimension to this transportation nightmare. Henri’s court, by necessity, is peripatetic. He must divide his time between London, Paris, and Edinburgh to keep his subjects happy. This means shifting an enormous number of people and a similarly enormous quantity of goods annually. The roads simply aren’t up to the task. Furthermore, communication between Henri and his subsidiary capitals must be of a reasonable timeliness, but the distances are vast. From Marseille on the Mediterranean coast to Thurso on the northern shores of Scotland, Henri’s realms stretch over 1400 miles. Obviously, even under the best of circumstances it takes time to communicate, and very rarely are the roads of France and Britain in the best of circumstances. Something must be done.

For the general improvement of transport in his realms, Henri creates the post of Royal Surveyor of the King’s Roads, whose mission is to maintain, expand, and “provide any useful improvement” to the roads of England, Scotland, and France. Henri appoints the talented siege engineer Maximilien de Bethune as the first Royal Surveyor, and sets him to work. Bethune immediately runs into the problem of the vast gulf between road cultures in France and England. In France, road upkeep is in the hands of the local nobility, who are expected to maintain the roads in exchange for the right to levy tariffs on goods transported on the sections of road running through their lands. These tariffs are onerous, and widely hated by the middle and lower classes--some of the worst abuses during the Regency were local nobles extracting heinously high tariffs--not to mention nearly (or in some cases more than) doubling the cost of shipping goods across France. In England, contrarily, the roads are maintained by the local parishes, at the parishes’ expense. Not surprisingly, the roads in England are very poor indeed, since the parishes have considerable disincentive to repair them. In Scotland, the roads are so terrible as to be not worth mentioning. In the Great Council, the nobles will scream bloody murder if the King tries to end the hated tariffs, while in Parliament, the commons will scream bloody murder if the King tries to raise them, even if only to pay for upkeep. Bethune’s frustration can only be imagined.

The situation in France is, for the moment, intractable, but England is less so. Parliament is in agreement with the King that the roads are very bad and something must be done about them. It’s up to Henri and Bethune to come up with an idea Parliament will find palatable.

Bethune finally finds his solution in the centuries-old tradition of English pavage grants. Short-term grants providing for the right to pave roads in exchange for tolls have been issued in England since the 13th century. Now Henri expands the grants to include the right to permanent tolls provided that one hundred percent of the tolls raised are used in maintenance of the roads. To provide incentive for parishes to desire these grants, Henri sets a flat annuity per mile of road: the parish holding the grant will receive a flat sum from the Crown in exchange for their service. To keep the grantholders honest, Henri sets accounting requirements: grantholders are to maintain scrupulous books that show, to the penny, every toll brought in and every expense out. If the two do not match--and Henri creates bodies of auditors to make sure that they match--the penalties are severe. Because the grants are held by collective parishes rather than individuals, there is less incentive to jack tolls up through the roof and more incentive to compete with neighboring parishes. It’s impossible for a parish to gain a monopoly over traffic, since neighboring parishes can simply build their own roads bypassing the offenders. Further, Henri charters a census, to find out where all his subjects live, how many of them there are, their livelihoods, and et cetera, as well as the amount of traffic on the roads. This will give him a good idea of what amount of tolls the parishes should be bringing in.

Henri also resurrects his namesake’s creation of the Master of the King’s Post. A royal postal service has existed in France for over a hundred years, and one in England for almost ninety, but these were intended primarily for official business. Now Henri throws open the doors to private citizens who wish to send letters. He also decrees that in England, France, and Scotland, only those individuals approved by the Master can deliver mail, in effect creating a kingdom-wide public postal service.

While Bethune goes to work reforming England’s roads, Henri sets his mind on the problem of how to do the same for France.

[Razgriz 2K9]

Oh if only fixing infrastructure was as easy as it was in Empire: Total War...

I did not know such canal projects were available and on hand during the time period, though I guess it could be said the same for the Dutch and their dam building to gain more land below sea water.

[Thespitron 6000]

Originally Posted by Razgriz 2K9

Oh if only fixing infrastructure was as easy as it was in Empire: Total War...

I did not know such canal projects were available and on hand during the time period, though I guess it could be said the same for the Dutch and their dam building to gain more land below sea water.

That Oder-Havel Canal is OTL 1605. The Loire valley canal (Canal de Briare) was OTL started in 1604 and completed in 1642, with a 27 year gap in construction time. ITTL, there was a five year gap during the Great War when no construction took place.

[Grouchio]

So the time has come to finally replace the roads of dirt with pave and cobble. Perhaps they could also restore the Roman roads (and perhaps even study and replicate them?!) They could even build up waystations like the romans used to, significantly cutting the time mail takes to get from, say, Paris to Barcelona?

[SavoyTruffle]

Time to use all those accumulated magistrates.

[Xgentis]

I wonder how they will improve the road in France and Scotland?

[Timmy811]

Originally Posted by naraht

I would imagine the entire 17th century Rice-culture other than Japan is essentially connected, so even wiping it out in China could see reintroduction from Southeast Asia.

(Ooh, idea for a truly fun TL. The Japanese among other things imported Rice from China in the 1930s, what does a Japan with a Stem Rot in 1936-1938 look like. )

Fun?

The Japanese would simply steal the food they need from Northern China and millions, maybe tens of millions of Chinese peasants would die. This would obviously have sever effects on the Chinese ability to continue to wage war against the Japanese.

[Positively Indecent]

Originally Posted by SavoyTruffle

Time to use all those accumulated magistrates.

Haha I would kill for someone to mod this as an EUIII scenario!

[Razgriz 2K9]

Mod for EUIII? Heh, I'd rather wait till 1836 so I can mod it for Vicky II (or III if it gets that far)

[Hobbesian]

Originally Posted by Positively Indecent

Haha I would kill for someone to mod this as an EUIII scenario!

I think i can. what starting year should i go with tho?

[Thespitron 6000]

Summer 1601: Diary of William Mowbray

“Of late we have come into lands farther north, and of colder clime, than those in Drakeshire, and we have passed a great forking in the river, where we took the western fork, which has happily brought us far north. Red Hat, whom I have vouchsafed has some dealings in this region, hath said unto us that this is the land of the Linniwicks, who are a warlike people, and that we must be on our guard. Today men hailed us from the shore, and Captain Smith and myself, along with a party of men, went by dinghy to the shore to treat with them. Red Hat did not speak their language, nor did we, and so with hands and marks in the earth we made ourselves understood. Our supplies have run low, particularly clean water. This river is brown with filth, and so we bartered with these men for the place of a spring or stream, and we gave them steel knives and a few other trinkets. They were much impressed by these feeble gifts. I say now, there is a great fortune to be made by a man willing to come here and trade with these people. There is a fine site some miles distant which we are given to understand is abandoned; this land is filled with the ruins of fallen kingdoms, so much so that it is as if one has traveled through Macedon or some other country in Greece. This site is a titanic construction, many mounds and hills upon mounds, and the people with whom we barter make signs to show they know naught about who built them.

These people, although we spoke not their language, made known to us that they were called the Kahokee, or another such name, and that, for we had shown them friendship, they wished to be our friends. I am most pleased, for this means that trade and the English flag are to be welcomed in these parts.”