Larger Switzerland

[oshron]

hey, all. i want to explore a possibility for both Anglo-American Rivalry and for my ASB ATL. everyone here knows about the Swiss AH cliches, about how its never any larger or smaller than it is IOTL and how it is never invaded or involved on the world scale

i'd like to explore some possibilities about Switzerland being at least slightly larger than it is IOTL. with a POD no earlier than 1783, is there any possibility that Switzerland could become slightly larger or more influential? the POD can take place at any time after that, even up into the 20th century with a Swiss Nazi party if you want (though i'd like to avoid that )

[mikegold]

Originally Posted by oshron

hey, all. i want to explore a possibility for both Anglo-American Rivalry and for my ASB ATL. everyone here knows about the Swiss AH cliches, about how its never any larger or smaller than it is IOTL and how it is never invaded or involved on the world scale

i'd like to explore some possibilities about Switzerland being at least slightly larger than it is IOTL. with a POD no earlier than 1783, is there any possibility that Switzerland could become slightly larger or more influential? the POD can take place at any time after that, even up into the 20th century with a Swiss Nazi party if you want (though i'd like to avoid that )

I think 1783 cuts off most of the best opportunities for expansion. When the Swiss confederacy first appeared on the scene as an unusual leage of peasant pikemen, it was quite the new thing, and up through the 16th century there are opportunities for expansion both north and south. By 1783, though, Switzerland was sort of a quirky accident of history with a very traditional and perhaps moribund approach to international affairs.

[wolf_brother]

1783 is fairly late for a larger Switzerland. Smaller is always possible, but larger?...

Maybe if the various condominiums, protectorates, vassals, and associated allied states that were excluded IOTL are wrapped up in the Helvetic Republic ITTL you might see a larger Switzerland post-Vienna Congress.

[FDW]

The best chance would be before your POD, but given your POD, having the French revolutionary wars affect Switzerland, with it ending on the victors side at the end and getting to reap some spoils.

[anotherlurker]

1918 the austrian province vorarlberg asked to join switzerland.

the swiss said no.

[Berus]

intresting link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enlargement_of_Switzerland

[warsfan]

Mulhouse was part of the Swiss Confederation. Perhaps with the right POD you can have Switzerland use it as a starting point to aquire some of southern Alsace.

[Alex Richards]

Further areas to consider:

Switzerland retaining Sondrio after the Napoleonic Wars, or even annexing Como as well.

Liechtenstein being annexed during Napoleonic period.

Switzerland awarded the Chablis at Vienna.

[Falecius]

Originally Posted by Alex Richards

Further areas to consider:

Switzerland retaining Sondrio after the Napoleonic Wars, or even annexing Como as well.

Liechtenstein being annexed during Napoleonic period.

Switzerland awarded the Chablis at Vienna.

Sondrio is quite possible, though Austria will want it. Como is sort of hard.
I would also consider the Ossola valley as a possibility.
After 1859, Switzerland seriously opposed French annexation of Savoy and tried to claim Annecy. I don't know how it was likely to fly well in any given circumstance, but I hope it helps.

[DTF955Baseballfan]

Originally Posted by Falecius

After 1859, Switzerland seriously opposed French annexation of Savoy and tried to claim Annecy. I don't know how it was likely to fly well in any given circumstance, but I hope it helps.

I didn't know that; that's interesting.

I'm intrigued because while Savoy itself couldn't be part of Switzerland with a POD that late, I to have an Alt-Switzerland that includes Savoy and Piedmont in "Sweet Lands of Liberty - what happens is that in this alt-Reformation (led by Waldensians), but support of Savoy and, IIRC, its victory in a subsequent war eventually leads to Europeans accepting its neutrality as a buffer between the Holy Roman Empire (Catholic) and Western Europe minus Iberia (Protestant). I'm thinking I have it retaining the name Savoy, but it could be the Savoyard Confederation of Switzerland.

Earlier than that, perhapd durign OTL's Reformation you could see a number of small German Duchies near the Swiss border wanting to join the Protestant Swiss. Perhaps if the Savoyards die out in the 1580s it coudl be divided with some agreement wherein the Waldensians and even some Huguenots are scrunched into a few places ont he border which are then added to Switzerland.

Of coruse, it's also possible that by a larger Switzerland you aren't talking about adding really big chunks of territory, either, relative to OTL's Switzerland. Mine is probably over twice the size of OTL.

[Max Sinister]

Baden-Württemberg and Bavaria secede from Germany because they don't want to pay for easterners and northerners anymore, and BW joins Switzerland. Bang, just doubled its size.

[Grey Wolf]

If Napoleon made Switzerland a kingdom for one of his marshals, and then instead of adding the little N Italian republics he creates all together, instead adds some of them to Switzerland...

Defeat Austria harder earlier, and maybe give Venetia to Switzerland

Best Regards
Grey Wolf

[AYoungContrarian]

Very easy with extremely little effort, actually.

Of course, that's only if you mean "larger" in the sense of being any bigger than OTL, regardless of scope. In that case, you could have some of Switzerland's weird border anomalies become a part of it-specifically, this one and that one.

-AYC

[kasumigenx]

Have Switzerland secularize the Patriarchate of Aquilea in that way they have access to sea ports.