Spy genre without Ian Fleming

[Willmatron]

How would the spy genre done had Ian Fleming died in World War 2?

[modelcitizen]

That's a neat question.


I imagine there'd be stuff akin to Casablanca, with cloak and dagger and stuff in the shadows, but the "star" is dragged through the muck of it all without a chance to surface and breathe until after the fact, or something like that.

[Ganesha]

Originally Posted by modelcitizen

That's a neat question.


I imagine there'd be stuff akin to Casablanca, with cloak and dagger and stuff in the shadows, but the "star" is dragged through the muck of it all without a chance to surface and breathe until after the fact, or something like that.

It is an interesting question. The Cold War would definitely have provided plenty of inspiration and material for spy thrillers, and the genre certainly would have developed anyway. Books like The Man Who Never Was would still be published.

Cheers,
Ganesha

[Herzen's love-child]

There was also the Le Carré stream of espionage fiction that would have chugged along which owed nothing to Fleming. More literary and realistic but also very popular and often made into films. "The Spy Who Came in from the Cold", "Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy", etc.

[zippy]

Originally Posted by Herzen's love-child

There was also the Le Carré stream of espionage fiction that would have chugged along which owed nothing to Fleming. More literary and realistic but also very popular and often made into films. "The Spy Who Came in from the Cold", "Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy", etc.

would Caine's portrayal of Deighton's Harry Palmer be the Connery as Bond of the Fleming-less TL ...

[Some Bloke]

Without Ian Flemming, Roald Dahl would probably have found another way to make a few bob post war.
They were both intelligence officers during the war after all.

[zippy]

Originally Posted by Some Bloke

Without Ian Flemming, Roald Dahl would probably have found another way to make a few bob post war.
They were both intelligence officers during the war after all.

dahl did write for adults as well just the public imagination caught with his children;s books - it would have been interesting to read the 'rest' of his autobiographical stories beyond 'boy' and 'going solo' ... but that's OT for this discussion and not really alternate hisotry unless you create a PoD that sees him publish them in favour of other works or Dahl does not die as he does in OTL.

[Stolengood]

Peter Fleming would probably go into the spy-novel business, instead...

[unclepatrick]

Peter O Donald would have come up with a Male Spy for his novels, instead of doing a Female in reaction to Bond. So No Modesty Blaise.

Not sure if John Gardner would do Boyise Oaks as written or if he would be a more serious character. In the OTL Oak was created as comedy character in respond to James Bond.

Same with James Leasor. Would Jason Love Character have been created or would Leasor remaind a Historian doing Nonfiction?

We might have seen Adam Hall's Quiller Novels become more popular. Maybe a series of movies instead of just the one.

[Just Leo]

The spy genre pre-dated Ian Fleming, and pre-dated established spy agencies. The movie, Goldfinger established the Bond legacy. Had the series ended with Dr. No and From Russia with Love, we wouldn't be talking about it now. I'm currently wading through Daniel Silva's Gabriel Allon series, and wondering why there never was a KGB super-spy novel series. I asked my librarian to look up Donald Hamilton who wrote 3 decades of Matt Helm novels, but they never heard of him. Fickle world.

[unclepatrick]

Originally Posted by Just Leo

The spy genre pre-dated Ian Fleming, and pre-dated established spy agencies. The movie, Goldfinger established the Bond legacy. Had the series ended with Dr. No and From Russia with Love, we wouldn't be talking about it now. I'm currently wading through Daniel Silva's Gabriel Allon series, and wondering why there never was a KGB super-spy novel series. I asked my librarian to look up Donald Hamilton who wrote 3 decades of Matt Helm novels, but they never heard of him. Fickle world.

Would love to see some good Matt Helm movies based on the Books.
Since Death of a Citizen 1960 owned more to Dashiell Hammett, than Fleming, early book would be close to one in OTL.

[yourworstnightmare]

We would probably have femme fatales anyways, but the stories would probably have been very different. Probably about poor man falling for beautiful spy, betrayed and in worst case killed in the end, and sometimes he's able to outsmart her and kill her instead, just to give the story a nice little twist.