That Wacky Redhead

[The Professor]

Nice update.
And you killed SNL

Originally Posted by NCW8

His appearance in London (presumably at the Wembly Arena) is going to be the sell-out gig of the year. I wonder if he'll appear on British tv while he's over. Parkinson or Top of the Pops maybe.

Hmm interesting, a little later and Parkinson woud be definite (assuming butterflies don't slow his rise to power) so I'm going to say a brief appearance on TOTP with an interview later in the year - perhaps arranged the same time as the gig but recorded&aired to coincide with his film release.

[stevep]

Brainbin

Another good update but a couple of queries.

a) Like phx1138 I wouldn't have classified Starsky and Hutch as a comedy series. Some bits were pretty light hearted, like the exchanges about Hutch's car when it made an appearance but not more so than many other programmes at the time. Agree the recent film was meant as a comedy, and having caught the tail end of it suffered as a result I think. Although bringing in the original actors for the last bit was a nice touch.

b) With note 11 "Outstanding Limited Series was awarded to Upstairs, Downstairs as part of Masterpiece Theatre; as that analogous program is a continuing comedy series, it was not nominated ITTL, allowing Rich Man, Poor Man to win instead". Am I mis-understanding or are you saying Upstairs Downstairs is a comedy in TTL?? Or that it was replaced TTL by a series that was a comedy?

Anyway, another great update.

They don't seem to have considered what is to me the obvious solution to Justman's problem. If he really wants to do some producing, have him do it at Desilu. Or is it just that their so focused on getting a replacement for his current role and their possibly just taking for granted he will produce for them?

Steve

[Falkenburg]

Would it be too much to ask that if Elvis appears on television in Britain he does so on the Old Grey Whistle Test?

Perhaps he's attracted by the idea of doing 'serious' music to compliment his 'serious' acting?
Just Elvis, his Band, some amps and some spotlights, no glitz or sequins. Just the man and his music.

Followed by astonished paeans from a younger generation acknowledging The Once and Future King (or The Return of The King, depending on your cultural referent preferences).

Falkenburg

[NCW8]

Originally Posted by The Professor

Hmm interesting, a little later and Parkinson woud be definite (assuming butterflies don't slow his rise to power) so I'm going to say a brief appearance on TOTP with an interview later in the year - perhaps arranged the same time as the gig but recorded&aired to coincide with his film release.

I don't recall Parkinson doing filmed interviews on his show, so it'll probably have to be a different interviewer. If it's related to a film, then maybe Barry Norman on Film 76 ?

Originally Posted by stevep

Brainbin
With note 11 "Outstanding Limited Series was awarded to Upstairs, Downstairs as part of Masterpiece Theatre; as that analogous program is a continuing comedy series, it was not nominated ITTL, allowing Rich Man, Poor Man to win instead". Am I mis-understanding or are you saying Upstairs Downstairs is a comedy in TTL?? Or that it was replaced TTL by a series that was a comedy?

IOTL, the original pitch for Upstairs, Downstairs was as a sitcom focussing on the two maids Rose and Sarah in a Victorian country house. In pre-production it evolved into a drama based in a house in Edwardian London, with the focus spread over the family upstairs and servants downstairs. Oh, and the title changed as well.

Originally Posted by Falkenburg

Would it be too much to ask that if Elvis appears on television in Britain he does so on the Old Grey Whistle Test?

Perhaps he's attracted by the idea of doing 'serious' music to compliment his 'serious' acting?
Just Elvis, his Band, some amps and some spotlights, no glitz or sequins. Just the man and his music.

I like this idea. It would be a good way for Elvis to demonstrate his credentials as a serious musician.

Cheers,
Nigel.

[e_wraith]

Wow. No SNL. I hope Phil Hartman gets his chance elsewhere... Too bad it probably means no News Radio, without his many years of SNL allowing him to shape that show. But that is a long, long time after. And maybe it saves his life, as well, which is good. And yes, that is my first reaction to no SNL. My second is wondering if Three Amigos can still happen. (Probably not, I guess.) This thought sequence is probably unique to me, though. Also, DIE MAUDE DIE! Ahem. I cannot stand to even watch a second of it. It is a sitcom, but it tries so hard to not be funny... (It has to be on purpose, right?) Maybe you had to be there at the time. It's not the star, I liked the Golden Girls...

Johnny Carson was awesome. The more time he has for his show the better. I am sad that I only got to experience his later years, but damn what a great comedian/talk show host.

Originally Posted by Brainbin

The cop show genre, though relatively inauspicious in comparison to the “important” shows of the era, proved insidious.

I have been interested in police shows from the 60s/70s lately, if only to see which ones can stand up on plot and which ones are just so outdated that they make no sense anymore. Starsky and Hutch I sort of remember in reruns, but Police Woman I never saw and don't really remember existing. People sure do talk about it a lot, so maybe it is worth looking at. I just got through Dragnet 1967/68/69/70, which is far more interesting for its commentary on its times than anything else. Jack Webb was so proud that LA didn't have any "King Riots" when Martin Luther King was assassinated, how ironic is it that 1992 LA would make up for it by having "King Riots" over a different person named King? Speaking of which, how is Mark VII productions doing? Can we have Jack Webb listen to one of his wives/friends and quit smoking so maybe we can have Dragnet 1982? (Would have happened but for his death, he was a chain smoking hard drinking individual. Many of his friends begged him to at least cut back, but he never did, and his health rapidly deteriorated due to it.) It would have been interesting to see his take on the 1980s. He was a good friend of Gene Roddenberry, too. And, of course, Roddenberry was an actual LAPD officer at one point... Considering his early work he could have easily wound up doing cop shows for a living. But I digress.

Originally Posted by Brainbin

One of the quieter overview updates so far

"quieter" Well, it's certainly an interesting word for this update. In other news, ITTL California quietly slid into the ocean after a quiet earthquake of magnitude 9. No SNL is bound to have that level of impact on so many careers, now I really can't wait to see what happens next! (Oh, good work again, Brainbin, but do I really need to say that at this point?)

[Thande]

Nice update. I'm not familiar with a lot of the US shows you mentioned, so I'll restrict myself to saying that I like what you did with Elvis and the Muppets working off some of the ideas suggested here. There are important butterflies from Elvis breaking with Col Tom Parker and touring internationally again. Over here in the UK Elvis is seen as a mythic figure because he never came here (except, famously, for a brief stopover in Scotland) and this is part of the reason why Buddy Holly remains so popular in the UK, he toured here before his tragic deat hin 1959 and so you will find quite a few people in the UK who will claim him as the true King. In your TL Elvis will be perceived as more of a real human figure in the UK, and we will see him towards the end of his career, which could be good or bad depending on your point of view.

[Thande]

Originally Posted by stevep

a) Like phx1138 I wouldn't have classified Starsky and Hutch as a comedy series. Some bits were pretty light hearted, like the exchanges about Hutch's car when it made an appearance but not more so than many other programmes at the time. Agree the recent film was meant as a comedy, and having caught the tail end of it suffered as a result I think. Although bringing in the original actors for the last bit was a nice touch.

I agree. It falls into an odd category, I wouldn't call it dramedy exactly...perhaps a mild form of camp or light farce? Sort of like, the viewers knew what was going to happen, but the actors played it as though it was totally serious? The A-Team is a more extreme example of the same sort of thing.

[stevep]

Originally Posted by NCW8

IOTL, the original pitch for Upstairs, Downstairs was as a sitcom focussing on the two maids Rose and Sarah in a Victorian country house. In pre-production it evolved into a drama based in a house in Edwardian London, with the focus spread over the family upstairs and servants downstairs. Oh, and the title changed as well.

Thanks Nigel. Interesting. Given I liked Upstairs Downstairs as a youngster I'm glad it got changed.

Steve

[stevep]

Originally Posted by Thande

I agree. It falls into an odd category, I wouldn't call it dramedy exactly...perhaps a mild form of camp or light farce? Sort of like, the viewers knew what was going to happen, but the actors played it as though it was totally serious? The A-Team is a more extreme example of the same sort of thing.

Thande

Possibly, although I think it was a lot more serious that the A-team which I loathed. Might be because by the time the latter came out I was a bit older. However loved S&H when initially shown and accepted it as pretty serious, although there were some parts played rather for laughs, such as those involving Huggy Bear.

Steve

[Glen]

Originally Posted by stevep

Thande

Possibly, although I think it was a lot more serious that the A-team which I loathed. Might be because by the time the latter came out I was a bit older. However loved S&H when initially shown and accepted it as pretty serious, although there were some parts played rather for laughs, such as those involving Huggy Bear.

Steve

Loved A Team didn't really get into S&H probably the age.

[The Blue-Eyed Infidel]

Originally Posted by e_wraith

Wow. No SNL.

{snip}

"quieter" Well, it's certainly an interesting word for this update. In other news, ITTL California quietly slid into the ocean after a quiet earthquake of magnitude 9. No SNL is bound to have that level of impact on so many careers, now I really can't wait to see what happens next! (Oh, good work again, Brainbin, but do I really need to say that at this point?)

Quite.

The butterflies are certainly going to come thick and fast now; even with BB's planned 1986 cut-off date, the impact of no SNL on pop culture is going to be immense.

Looking forward to seeing what he does with it.

TB-EI

[unclepatrick]

No SNL. Hey ABC show Friday last more than a season.
Am I the only one who remembers this?

Diner of the Dead is a Classic
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0o_LlmYoBdE

[Glen]

Quite excellent update Brainbin! No SNL demands a Long Lived and popular SCTV to restore balance to the Universe!

[vultan]

Upon further consideration, I do wonder- isn't it a bit of a mischaracterization to say Colonel Parker signed Elvis up for a bunch of "silly" gigs? After all, Elvis badly wanted to appear on Hee Haw, but Parker vetoed that.

[Brainbin]

Thank you all, as always, for your enthusiastic response to this latest update! I suspected that it would elicit strong reactions, and I was not disappointed!

Originally Posted by NCW8

OK, I was 13, but it was a more innocent time. Teenagers weren't pressured into being quite so cynical about everything as they are now. Or maybe I was just a slow developer.

Probably a little bit of both. Kids definitely mature (physiologically, at least) faster now than ever before, and I've already decried the rise of cynicism in modern-day society.

Originally Posted by NCW8

I didn't get the impression that he hated the result - at least not after the first film. He might have changed his mind after the later films were released.

My understanding was that he disliked doing the film and considered it beneath him (but sucked it up because he was a consummate professional, and got along with all of his castmates), and even suggested that Obi-Wan be killed off (though there are conflicting sources on who is responsible for that one). Most of all, he loathed that this was what people remembered him for. And considering his incredibly accomplished career, I wouldn't begrudge him that.

Originally Posted by Thande

That's an interesting point. It's true that most Star Wars parodies focus on the original film. It's interesting to look up parodies made soon after the film's release, such as MAD Magazine's parody or the Two Ronnies sketch--which is much like the Star Trek one of theirs I showed to you earlier. As you say, though, Star Trek stock parodies now tend to focus on a few key points that often are barely visible in the actual show itself, it's almost parodies just referencing earlier parodies by this point. I mean, from the parodies you'd never guess that in the original Star Trek the Klingons only appeared in (IIRC) four episodes...

Apparently it's seven - though technically just six, because one of those was (of course) illusory. "Parodies referencing earlier parodies" is a good way to describe the phenomenon, though occasionally new material is added in due to outside circumstances - and I have a great example that demonstrates their extreme emphasis on character. Mr. Sulu, during the run of the series, was the only major character who had neither a catchphrase or verbal tic, nor some kind of character quirk (a few early episodes portrayed him as a serial hobbyist, but this was largely abandoned later on). Consequently, Sulu rarely appears in older parodies; when he does, he's always the straight man. But in recent years, with George Takei following in the footsteps of his hated enemy Bill Shatner and engaging in self-parody (coupled with his coming out of the closet), Sulu is ubiquitous, always played as flamboyantly and lecherously gay (even though Takei has said that the character is actually straight - canon itself is rather vague, daughter aside).

Originally Posted by Thande

This has been pointed out by comedians repeatedly here...though the fact that the advert became so memetic showed that it clearly worked. (I suppose you could say it's related to how every bit of science fiction from at least the 1890s to the 1960s imagined that in the future we would be eating food in pill form, and not always for overpopulation and limited farming space reasons or whatever, sometimes just implying that people would voluntarily switch to doing this )

From what I understand, it was part of the culture of the era: in the 1950s, people actually preferred canned and processed food because it was modern and the myriad chemicals were likewise considered a good thing (this was also a culture that preferred baby formula to breastfeeding, for the same reasons). Environmentalism no doubt played a part, but ever since the 1970s, the backlash against that seems to have developed into a genuine appreciation of real ingredients grown organically.

Originally Posted by vultan

Loved the dialogue bit at the beginning. Could that be... foreshadowing?

Me? Foreshadow something? Surely you jest

Originally Posted by vultan

Yay for Elvis (assumably) fixing up his life here! Him meeting the Muppets seems epic!

I just couldn't resist the opportunity to say that, in my timeline, Elvis Lives!

Originally Posted by Orville_third

I know Star Trek was the first show to have a "making of" book. I even have a copy or two of it! Steven Whitfield's "The Making of Star Trek".

Yes, which was produced during the run of the original series. It really is fascinating how strong fan interest in that show really was, right out of the gate.

Originally Posted by Falkenburg

Damn I want to see that episode of The Muppets!

And I want to see my version of Star Trek! Sometimes writing this timeline can be so bittersweet

Originally Posted by Falkenburg

Even by Elvis' standards he's going to have made an incredible amount of money touring internationally.

Not to mention that he'll keep far more of that money to himself, because Colonel Tom Parker took 50% of his revenues, but Hulett will take the standard 10%.

Originally Posted by Falkenburg

Bravo, Brainbin.

Thank you!

Originally Posted by NCW8

His appearance in London (presumably at the Wembly Arena) is going to be the sell-out gig of the year. I wonder if he'll appear on British tv while he's over. Parkinson or Top of the Pops maybe.

Yes, Elvis will headline at Wembley. The telly is a more difficult proposition. His tour will be whirlwind and there won't be much time to do appearances on top of that.

Originally Posted by phx1138

As usual, nice work, BB.

Thank you, phx

Originally Posted by phx1138

Maybe you know better than me, but somehow, I just don't believe that.

Well, I mentioned the high quality of the commissary food in the previous update. So I was just following through

Originally Posted by phx1138

Nice touch. D'you suppose, tho, butterflies might've changed Lisa Marie's name, too?

Perhaps, but I've never been very good with names; what Elvis would have named any son is pretty obvious, so at least that part was easy enough.

Originally Posted by phx1138

I would never have thought of him.

Thank you! It's a fun insight into my thought process in the writing of this timeline, which goes something like this:

Happy Days > needs alternate title > Rock Around the Clock > keep original theme to match title > original context of "Rock Around the Clock" song > Blackboard Jungle > produced by MGM > better management at MGM > re-release to ride wave of retro nostalgia > re-release gets good box-office > inspires television executives > integrated casts on television > Sidney Poitier breakthrough performance > young black actor who resembles Sidney Poitier > remembers 74th Academy Awards > Denzel Washington wins Oscar, gushes over Poitier > says "I'm always chasing you, Sidney" > lightbulb! > cast Denzel Washington in Welcome Back, Kotter in the Poitier analogue role.

Originally Posted by phx1138

Tell me you left Valerie alone. Needless to say, she was the sole reason I ever watched this.

Sorry, she's too young to have avoided the butterflies. It's no doubt someone else in the role (and that of Phillips, for that matter).

Originally Posted by phx1138

Didn't it get changed to 75m before this? Because people were skipping the first 15min to watch local news, or something? Or did the show get pushed back on the schedule?

It was changed from 90 minutes to 60 in 1980 IOTL. As far as I know, it was never 75 minutes long in the Carson era.

Originally Posted by phx1138

Thanks a bunch for the Carson stuff, BTW. I take it, tho, he's still virtually keeping NBC afloat all by his lonesome?

Actually, no. NBC is doing much better ITTL. In the 1975-76 season IOTL, they had just one Top 10 show and only three in the Top 30. They are roughly three times as successful IOTL by those metrics. What's also worth noting is that Carson is less successful relative to Cavett and Griffin, though he's still well ahead. Therefore, he is less valuable to the network, and is consequently less willing to bluff to get what he wants. Their mutual conservatism has thus prevented the emergence of SNL ITTL.

Originally Posted by The Professor

Nice update.

Thank you, Professor

Originally Posted by The Professor

And you killed SNL

I sure did

Originally Posted by stevep

Another good update but a couple of queries.

Thank you Steve, and of course.

Originally Posted by stevep

Like phx1138 I wouldn't have classified Starsky and Hutch as a comedy series. Some bits were pretty light hearted, like the exchanges about Hutch's car when it made an appearance but not more so than many other programmes at the time. Agree the recent film was meant as a comedy, and having caught the tail end of it suffered as a result I think. Although bringing in the original actors for the last bit was a nice touch.

A number of you have raised this concern, and I have slightly revised my wording to reflect my original intent - it has strong buddy-comedy influences.

Originally Posted by stevep

With note 11 "Outstanding Limited Series was awarded to Upstairs, Downstairs as part of Masterpiece Theatre; as that analogous program is a continuing comedy series, it was not nominated ITTL, allowing Rich Man, Poor Man to win instead". Am I mis-understanding or are you saying Upstairs Downstairs is a comedy in TTL?? Or that it was replaced TTL by a series that was a comedy?

Upstairs, Downstairs was conceived as a comedy of manners set in the Victorian Era, and that is how it was launched ITTL, under its original title, Behind the Green Baize Door.

Originally Posted by stevep

They don't seem to have considered what is to me the obvious solution to Justman's problem. If he really wants to do some producing, have him do it at Desilu. Or is it just that their so focused on getting a replacement for his current role and their possibly just taking for granted he will produce for them?

They are taking it for granted, because he will produce for them. Why wouldn't he? It's Desilu, after all!

Originally Posted by Falkenburg

Perhaps he's attracted by the idea of doing 'serious' music to compliment his 'serious' acting?
Just Elvis, his Band, some amps and some spotlights, no glitz or sequins. Just the man and his music.

He explored this particular style in the '68 Comeback Special, of course, and he's going to be performing a lot of his classics overseas. I would call it a likely scenario.

Originally Posted by e_wraith

Wow. No SNL. I hope Phil Hartman gets his chance elsewhere...

In this era IOTL, Hartman was working as a graphic artist, specializing in designing album covers for rock bands. I would obviously be depriving the world of comedy one of its leading lights if I butterflied his change of careers, but that's something worth bearing in mind.

Originally Posted by e_wraith

Too bad it probably means no News Radio, without his many years of SNL allowing him to shape that show. But that is a long, long time after. And maybe it saves his life, as well, which is good.

Hartman will not make the acquaintance of either Brynn Omdahl or Andy Dick ITTL, both of which should make everyone eternally grateful.

(Unless you don't like Phil Hartman, that is; and who could possibly dislike him? phx?)

Originally Posted by e_wraith

This thought sequence is probably unique to me, though.

As you can see, you need a pretty "unique" thought process to be writing a timeline like this

Originally Posted by e_wraith

Also, DIE MAUDE DIE! Ahem. I cannot stand to even watch a second of it. It is a sitcom, but it tries so hard to not be funny... (It has to be on purpose, right?) Maybe you had to be there at the time. It's not the star, I liked the Golden Girls...

I never cared for Maude either - the characters were cold and unappealing in a way that all the ensembles on all the other Norman Lear shows weren't. What's interesting is that these people are the ones whose lifestyle and ideology most closely resembles that of Lear himself (Maude was apparently based on his then-wife). And we know that the cast has been far more attractive elsewhere (Arthur and McClanahan in The Golden Girls, Bain in Diff'rent Strokes, Rolle in Good Times, Barbeau as the voice of Catwoman in Batman: The Animated Series, Macy... well, every cast has to have one weak link, I suppose), which very squarely places the blame on the writing.

Originally Posted by e_wraith

Johnny Carson was awesome. The more time he has for his show the better. I am sad that I only got to experience his later years, but damn what a great comedian/talk show host.

Unfortunately, I missed him entirely. I'm too young to even remember when he went off the air, if my parents would have even let me stay up to watch it. So at least you have your memories. We were talking about the penultimate show with Bette Midler and Robin Williams earlier, and that must have really been something, having served as the climax to all the emotion that was building up over those last months. I can't stop him from taking days off, but he's staying on for 90 minutes, whether he likes it or not!

Originally Posted by e_wraith

Can we have Jack Webb listen to one of his wives/friends and quit smoking so maybe we can have Dragnet 1982? (Would have happened but for his death, he was a chain smoking hard drinking individual. Many of his friends begged him to at least cut back, but he never did, and his health rapidly deteriorated due to it.)

I'm hesitant to have an OTL chain-smoker quit, especially as early as the 1970s. Nowadays, smokers will quit, largely because they face pressure to do so in every single part of their lives (to that point that it almost takes a special kind of stubbornness not to attempt to quit). Many of those pressures did not exist in the 1970s.

(Disclaimer: I am a non-smoker, and if any smokers - or even better, ex-smokers - have a take on this issue, please feel free to share it with us.)

Originally Posted by e_wraith

It would have been interesting to see his take on the 1980s. He was a good friend of Gene Roddenberry, too. And, of course, Roddenberry was an actual LAPD officer at one point... Considering his early work he could have easily wound up doing cop shows for a living.

It is interesting that he had so little involvement with the genre ITTL. Though his police work, from what I understand, did influence the characterizations in Star Trek. There's an old story that James T. Kirk was based on none other than Daryl F. Gates - yes, that Daryl F. Gates, speaking of the riots.

Originally Posted by e_wraith

"quieter" Well, it's certainly an interesting word for this update. In other news, ITTL California quietly slid into the ocean after a quiet earthquake of magnitude 9.

Sometimes I can be just slightly facetious

Originally Posted by e_wraith

(Oh, good work again, Brainbin, but do I really need to say that at this point?)

Well, thank you! I certainly never tire of hearing it

Originally Posted by Thande

Nice update. I'm not familiar with a lot of the US shows you mentioned, so I'll restrict myself to saying that I like what you did with Elvis and the Muppets working off some of the ideas suggested here. There are important butterflies from Elvis breaking with Col Tom Parker and touring internationally again. Over here in the UK Elvis is seen as a mythic figure because he never came here (except, famously, for a brief stopover in Scotland) and this is part of the reason why Buddy Holly remains so popular in the UK, he toured here before his tragic deat hin 1959 and so you will find quite a few people in the UK who will claim him as the true King. In your TL Elvis will be perceived as more of a real human figure in the UK, and we will see him towards the end of his career, which could be good or bad depending on your point of view.

He'll be a lot more trim and svelte than in the mid-1970s IOTL - probably Aloha from Hawaii level-athleticism. His new management will ensure that personal trainers and dieticians and the like will become part of his entourage, crowding out the malignant Memphis Mafia without taking them out of the picture entirely.

Originally Posted by Glen

Loved A Team didn't really get into S&H probably the age.

The A-Team, as I've mentioned to someone else before, is one of the most quintessentially 1980s shows in existence. Not sure if it'll show up here

Originally Posted by The Blue-Eyed Infidel

The butterflies are certainly going to come thick and fast now; even with BB's planned 1986 cut-off date, the impact of no SNL on pop culture is going to be immense.

Looking forward to seeing what he does with it.

Thanks for the vote of confidence! It's going to a most intriguing challenge for me...

Originally Posted by unclepatrick

No SNL. Hey ABC show Friday last more than a season.

Unfortunately, Fridays was an explicit rip-off of Saturday Night Live, and would not likely exist on its own.

Originally Posted by Glen

Quite excellent update Brainbin! No SNL demands a Long Lived and popular SCTV to restore balance to the Universe!

Now that is a definite possibility.

Originally Posted by vultan

Upon further consideration, I do wonder- isn't it a bit of a mischaracterization to say Colonel Parker signed Elvis up for a bunch of "silly" gigs? After all, Elvis badly wanted to appear on Hee Haw, but Parker vetoed that.

Hey, even a stopped clock is right twice a day (And, yes, the King will appear on Hee-Haw ITTL, as soon as he has more country material to shill).

I hope to have the next update ready sooner, rather than later - after all, I'd like to strike while the iron is still warm to the touch!

[THE OBSERVER]

God man, you really are turning things upside down. Still hoping, deep in my mind, that you'll edit the Doctor Who post and ensure that the Fourth Doctor is played by Tom Baker, starting in 1974, and Sarah Jane Smith is introduced as a companion and stays on the show longer, until the 15th season. Other than that, you've really made a lot of changes. How it affects New Hollywood, I don't know, but you sure killed Altman's career at the starting gate.

[Unknown]

At least Life With Lucy won't be on in this TL (it's featured in the book What Were They Thinking? The 100 Dumbest Moments in Television History, although this TL will provide many dumb moments ). Loved the reference to it in your first post (September 20, 1986 was the date of the premiere of Live With Lucy).

As Bart Scott of the New York Jets once said in a different context: Can't wait!!!

[Lizzie_Harrison]

Originally Posted by Brainbin

Apparently it's seven - though technically just six, because one of those was (of course) illusory. "Parodies referencing earlier parodies" is a good way to describe the phenomenon, though occasionally new material is added in due to outside circumstances - and I have a great example that demonstrates their extreme emphasis on character. Mr. Sulu, during the run of the series, was the only major character who had neither a catchphrase or verbal tic, nor some kind of character quirk (a few early episodes portrayed him as a serial hobbyist, but this was largely abandoned later on). Consequently, Sulu rarely appears in older parodies; when he does, he's always the straight man. But in recent years, with George Takei following in the footsteps of his hated enemy Bill Shatner and engaging in self-parody (coupled with his coming out of the closet), Sulu is ubiquitous, always played as flamboyantly and lecherously gay (even though Takei has said that the character is actually straight - canon itself is rather vague, daughter aside).

Is this OTL canon or TTL canon?

[Brainbin]

Originally Posted by Lizzie_Harrison

Is this OTL canon or TTL canon?

Sorry, I should have been more precise. The correct answer is, of course, both of them

[NCW8]

Originally Posted by Brainbin

My understanding was that he disliked doing the film and considered it beneath him (but sucked it up because he was a consummate professional, and got along with all of his castmates), and even suggested that Obi-Wan be killed off (though there are conflicting sources on who is responsible for that one). Most of all, he loathed that this was what people remembered him for. And considering his incredibly accomplished career, I wouldn't begrudge him that.

Of course he wouldn't known that Star Wars would be the film that he would be remembered for until well after he had finished making it. From what I remember of his interviews at the time, he was defending it as a serious production. As you say, that could be just his professionalism.

Originally Posted by Brainbin

Apparently it's seven - though technically just six, because one of those was (of course) illusory. "Parodies referencing earlier parodies" is a good way to describe the phenomenon, though occasionally new material is added in due to outside circumstances - and I have a great example that demonstrates their extreme emphasis on character. Mr. Sulu, during the run of the series, was the only major character who had neither a catchphrase or verbal tic, nor some kind of character quirk (a few early episodes portrayed him as a serial hobbyist, but this was largely abandoned later on). Consequently, Sulu rarely appears in older parodies; when he does, he's always the straight man. But in recent years, with George Takei following in the footsteps of his hated enemy Bill Shatner and engaging in self-parody (coupled with his coming out of the closet), Sulu is ubiquitous, always played as flamboyantly and lecherously gay (even though Takei has said that the character is actually straight - canon itself is rather vague, daughter aside).

As another datum point, parodies of Dr Who tend to copy the style of the show rather than particular plots or characters. The Daleks often make an appearance. Curse of Fatal Death is a good example of this.

Originally Posted by Brainbin

From what I understand, it was part of the culture of the era: in the 1950s, people actually preferred canned and processed food because it was modern and the myriad chemicals were likewise considered a good thing (this was also a culture that preferred baby formula to breastfeeding, for the same reasons). Environmentalism no doubt played a part, but ever since the 1970s, the backlash against that seems to have developed into a genuine appreciation of real ingredients grown organically.

There's also the "food pills" that appear most often in spoofs of SF. There was a scene in Come Back Mrs Noah where the captain of the space station is describing the flavours of various coloured food pills. Mrs Noah asks what the large brown pill is, to be told that it's an after-dinner mint.

Originally Posted by Brainbin

I'm hesitant to have an OTL chain-smoker quit, especially as early as the 1970s. Nowadays, smokers will quit, largely because they face pressure to do so in every single part of their lives (to that point that it almost takes a special kind of stubbornness not to attempt to quit). Many of those pressures did not exist in the 1970s.

(Disclaimer: I am a non-smoker, and if any smokers - or even better, ex-smokers - have a take on this issue, please feel free to share it with us.)

I'm not a smoker myself, but both my parents were. They both gave up in about 1979. In the UK, government attempts to persuade people to give up smoking had already started in the seventies, although tobacco advertising was still allowed. I think that the health warning on cigarette packets was introduced in the early seventies, although it was still the somewhat bland "Smoking may damage your health". This was (of course) sometimes parodied. One episode of Yes, Prime Minister suggested it shoul be changed to "Dying of lung cancer may damage your health".

Cheers,
Nigel.