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  #621  
Old August 10th, 2012, 10:18 PM
Tongera Tongera is online now
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Also, its winter.

Invading Russia in winter is suicide.
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  #622  
Old August 10th, 2012, 11:17 PM
chris N chris N is offline
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No it is not winter. This is only the beginning of October 1941. The war began in 1940 with the Soviet Invasion of the Ukraine and Polish Lithuanian Union. And in June 1941 the Allied counter attack began.
Still if the Allied forces are unable to take Moscow then there will be a pull back from the exposed positions to a more defensible one. In which case Stalin will get a chance to rebuild those units destroyed in 1941 and hope that he could inflict enough loses on the allies to get a peace agreement.
Below the situation map as of October 10,1941.
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  #623  
Old August 11th, 2012, 05:16 PM
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The final crack appeared in the defenses of Moscow and the Germans proceeded to apply the remaining pressure so that on October 12 resistance began to crumble. German and allied forces began to push deep into the city. Two days latter the last defenders of the Kremlin surrendered. Stalin had escaped but word was that he had been wounded in the battle.
On October 16th German Flags were flying over the City. Some of the Communist were tried for war crimes and shot...Work arrived from the far East that the Kingdom of Siberia declared war on the Soviet Union. A lot of the conscripted Ukrainian POWs now surrendered to the Siberians in effect opening the way for an advance.
Still time was running out and unless the Red Army leadership surrendered the war would not be over until the following year.
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  #624  
Old August 11th, 2012, 09:40 PM
chris N chris N is offline
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Despite the defection of the conscripted Ukrainians the Red Army in the Far East things were not quite so bad for the Red Army. The weather in the Fae East had already started to turn colder and there had been some snow. Thus mother Nature was helping the Soviets out there.
The Fall of Moscow had overshoadow the victory in southern Russia by The German- Allied forces. Stalingrad had fallen to the Germans , who had raced across the steppe before the Red Army knew they were there.
Erwin Rommel had shown why he was one of the most capable Generals.His Corps had Crushed a Soviet Army and prevented the Reds from being able to rally their forces.
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  #625  
Old August 13th, 2012, 08:28 AM
Richter von Manthofen Richter von Manthofen is offline
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Keep up the pace
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  #626  
Old August 13th, 2012, 12:11 PM
chris N chris N is offline
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The German General Staff Knew that time was rapidly running out. With only two weeks to go before the month of October was over reality was beginning to show that it was unlikely that a knock out blow could be delivered. While some operations would continue it was imperative that an all out effort be made to prepare the forces for the winter.
The Ukraine and Polish-Lithuanian Union had recovered all of the lost lands but were still willing to fight . The Kingdom of Finland had occupied some addition Soviet territory but that was about it.
German Warships had arrived in the Black Sea to join with the Italians and Romanians in destroying the Soviet Navy that remained. below the map showing the front October 29th,1941.
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  #627  
Old August 13th, 2012, 09:58 PM
chris N chris N is offline
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Soviet forces in he Far East were able to contain the Siberian Kingdom forces now that winter had started.
In the West the Soviet Military leadership was moving toward mounting a counter attack. The reserves and conscripts had allowed the Red Army to make up its loses to a certain extent. Fortunately , Zhukov's strategy of limiting loses now was paying off by allowing the Red Army to prepare to show that its death was premature. Still the amount of replacements were limited and any heavy loses could not be made up. Tanks and vehicles were arriving but there was a limit to the amount of gasoline and diesel fuel that would be available. The Red army would have to depend upon horses and foot power to get the job done.
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  #628  
Old August 14th, 2012, 12:17 PM
chris N chris N is offline
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The Soviet General Staff planned for a series of Winter offensives designed to regain some territory but more to inflict loses on the allies that might get them to consider a peace talk.
Stalin had disappeared but Zhukov was sure that he would turn up at the wrong moment. But even now Stalin's absence was leading to a power struggle within the Party. Some of the leaders were looking to the army for aid in a possible showdown with the head of the secret police.
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  #629  
Old August 15th, 2012, 11:22 AM
chris N chris N is offline
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The Soviet Military formed an alliance with the Foreign Minister and staged a coup. The Head of the Secret Police was taken into Red Army Custody and was treated to some of the stuff that he dished out. Stalin had not shown up and there were reports that he had been killed trying to make his way to the Urals when the Luftwaffe had destroyed a train.
Zhukov 's plan was to hit the weaker allied forces. The Romanians were struck by three Red Armies. The Reds had the new JSI tank and were able to inflict losses on the Romanian First Army. The Germans were forced to respond to these attack and deal with them. The Italians were hit next and then a Ukrainian Corps. Each time the Red Army inflicted loses and gined territory but when the Germans arrived the Soviets pulled back to stronger positions.
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  #630  
Old August 16th, 2012, 07:03 AM
Richter von Manthofen Richter von Manthofen is offline
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Isn't it a bit early for the IS 2 to show up

Where are the Panzer V and VI of OTL - any chance teh Allies get them in time
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  #631  
Old August 16th, 2012, 11:52 AM
chris N chris N is offline
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The Germans have developed the alternative Panther design which is now in mass production. The Tiger tank is under development as the German's are well aware that the Soviets have a tendency to spring surprises. The Soviet tank that is coming out is the JSI. It will be armed with a 85mm gun. The JSII is under development but will not appear until late 1942 at the earliest.
Germany has allowed Italy to produce the PzkpfIV but for now the DB Panther is only available for the German Army. Germany had supplied Pzkpf IIIs and IV to Romania , Polish-Lithuanian Union, the Ukraine and Finland.
The ACCM is now stepping up production of its T-25 tank and has started to massively produce its Hertzer version of the T-38. In fact it had been adopting the T-38 body for a new APC.
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  #632  
Old August 16th, 2012, 12:59 PM
Richter von Manthofen Richter von Manthofen is offline
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IS-1??? - still quite early

I would instead go with upgunning the KV and T-34 to 85mm first....
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  #633  
Old August 16th, 2012, 10:00 PM
chris N chris N is offline
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Stalin was pushing for a heavy tank. Thus the IS I got pushed but there is a move to get a more heavily armed verison of the T-34.
One expert said that to produce a 85mm version would result in a reduction in production for a time.
The Russian General staff's goal is to keep the allies off balance and by time for a counter offensive.
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  #634  
Old August 18th, 2012, 03:52 PM
chris N chris N is offline
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The Soviet Winter offensive managed to push the allies back. There was a serious attempt to retake Stalingrad. Zhukov and the other Soviet military leaders agreed that there had to be a limit to the amount of loses that would be acceptable. The Soviets just did not have the resources available to them to make up a large lose of personnel and material.
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  #635  
Old August 20th, 2012, 06:47 AM
Richter von Manthofen Richter von Manthofen is offline
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Looking at that last map ... Another push from north and south to cut off Stalingrad and we have OTLs scenario.
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  #636  
Old August 20th, 2012, 11:29 AM
chris N chris N is offline
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The push to cut off Stalingrad was noted by the German High Command. The Romanians had been forced to fall back as had the Italians but unlike in OTL the Italians had managed to fall back in good order giving the Soviets a bloody noose. The Sixth Army had stockpiled food ,fuel and Munitions but already the Winter Fox as he was being called was ready to launch his own winter offensive to ensure that the supply line was not cut.

Some really bad weather had forced the Luftwaffe to curtail its support missions although some strategic Bombing missions were still happening.
Overall there was a study being done on the condition of the Allied forces. The Germans rated the Royal Ukrainian Army as in poor shape. Its units were worn out from nearly two years of fighting. This winter the army was finally being given a chance to recover. The Ukrainians that had been set to Siberian were being brought home They would get some leave and then would rejoin the army. The Romanian 1st Army was in poor shape. The 1st Armored division was down to 40% of strength and some of the other divisions were no better.
The ACCM's Army appeared to be in good shape. Its tanks and armored vehicles were quite good and morale was high. The liberation of Kiev had been a high point. The Hungarians had recently joined the war and were being kept with the ACCM forces and away from the Romanians . Relations between the two nations had improved but the Germans didn't want to cause any future problems.
The Polish-Lithuanian Union Army was in better condition than the Ukrainians but it also was tired and needed a lot more equipment if it was to be of any use in next years campaign.
The German Army was pleased with the DB Panther. It had done quite well against the Soviet tanks. It new High velocity 75mm gun had knocked out the Soviet heavies but there was a demand for a new heavy tank to deal with the new Soviet heavies that were beginning to appear.
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  #637  
Old August 21st, 2012, 05:35 PM
chris N chris N is offline
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The Red Army was attempting to isolate Stalingrad and cut off the 6th Army from the rest of the German-allied army. Rommel was carrying out a series of counter attacks to keep the Red Army off of balance. It was it these battles that the Germans first started to become aware of the Soviet new heavily armed tanks. The 85mm gun was a deadly surprise. The DB Panther did quite well against the Soviet armor but there simply were not enough of them. Still Rommel's action prevented the Soviets from isolating the Germans.
A problem was that winter still had months to go and the Germans were rolling with the punches.
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  #638  
Old August 22nd, 2012, 04:17 PM
chris N chris N is offline
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General Erwin Rommels Panzer corp was suffering from a lot of wear and tear. Between combat and wear and tear both of the corps Panzer Divisions were suffering a declining amount of operational tanks. For Instance the 7th Panzer Division had started the campaign with 2 Battalions of DB Panthers 100 tanks. Wear and tear and combat had reduced that to 45 operational tanks and 15 more were in workshops undergoing repairs. The division also had 2 Battalions of Pzkpf IVs (100 tanks ) and there were 55 of them operational. The division finally had 2 Battalions of Pzkpf IIIs(110 tanks) and there were 60 of them operational. The Corps other division had a similar story but it had only 1 battalion of DB Panthers, 2 of Pzkpf IV and 3 of Pzkpf IIIs.
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  #639  
Old August 23rd, 2012, 03:10 PM
chris N chris N is offline
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The Germans were dealing with the Soviet thrust. They had been preparing now to have to do some winter fighting.
January 1942 The weather was continuing to favor the Red army. The Soviet plans were to regain territory but more importantly to inflict loses on the enemy while limiting yours.
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  #640  
Old August 24th, 2012, 12:52 PM
chris N chris N is offline
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As the new year started there were questions of whether the German forces holding Stalingrad should break out to the west or remain in place. most of the city was intact so there was plenty of shelter . The German and allied forces were well supplied but they seemed to be burning through a lot of ammo and fuel in fighting the soviets.
General Rommels Panzer Corp had so far been able to keep the supply line to the west open but combat and the harsh weather were causing the loss of more and more tanks. The repair shops were doing a fantastic job of returning tanks to service but there was a limit.
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