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  #701  
Old July 31st, 2012, 09:45 AM
arctic warrior arctic warrior is offline
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I thought something like that might happen in Germany.
Of the three major players the KoN to me seems the most coherent one and Habsburg empire the least; though not said that romanticism and nationalism might not affect them all when they follow in the footsteps of enlightenment. Then the KoN should be the most durable based on its history of quasi-democracy of the privileged classes of society.

Looking forward to where you're going to take it.
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  #702  
Old August 1st, 2012, 02:01 PM
Redbeard Redbeard is offline
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Summary, 1638: The French-Spanish are locked in France but the Russians have succeeded in taking Constantinople and the coastlines of the Black Sea as well as most of Asia Minor. A number of Ottoman subjects and/or enemies, notably the Persians and the Mameluks have utilized the situation and the Ottoman Empire has dissolved in the process. The F-S have landed in Greece and assisted Greek independence. The Habsburg trust in KoN assistance has increased with the more activist Wilhjalm on the Throne and declare war on Russia, quickly occupying Wallachia and Thessaloniki, but bogs down in Bulgaria. Thessaloniki, which already had a significant Jewish population, becomes a “most favored city” under Imperial protection and with special rights for Jews to settle in. In return the Emperor is offered financial assistance. A Russian campaign against Wallachia bogs down in the Danube delta but the KoN is seriously worried about the prospect of a F-S/Russian alliance having un-hindered communication through the Bosperus Strait. Not at least prompted by the old Queen, the King’s mother, Krumvæld is left in command of the campaign in France and King Wilhjalm turns his attention to the SE scene. The object is to interrupt the F-S – Russian link through the Bosperus, primarily by lifting Russian control over Constantinople but at least by securing foothold on the Black Sea and/or Aegean coastlines.

“The Kingdom trusts your loyalty and wisdom Erik!” the old Queen addressed the Earl. He was from one of the oldest families in the Kingdom going back to Estrid a daughter of King Svend Forkbeard of Denmark and England, the Grandfather of King Hardeknud of England, Denmark, Sweden and Norway.

The family had been remarkably loyal through the centuries, first by Estrid’s son Svend, who fought for Hardeknud against Harald Hardrada and next by Svend’s three sons all in succession being Earls of Denmark. After that the family had been in the service of the Crown from more or less prominent positions, but always had remained loyal, even through the strides with the old families in earlier centuries.

Earl Erik was an obvious talent; already under Knud he had superbly organized the financial matters of the Royal Household and in close co-operation with the Queen. When King Wilhjalm had decided to expand the war effort it was largely Erik who had made it possible, not only by introducing the warbond system, but also by having everything run exceptionally smooth.

He superbly managed the political balance of the two Councils of Cultivation and Commerce respectively. In short the landowners in the Council of Cultivation trusted him because he belonged to an old landowning family and the merchants in the Council of Commerce trusted him because he through the warbonds had not only freed them of heavy taxes here and now but even had given them an excellent opportunity to make money.

As King Wilhjalm intended to show up personally at the Imperial court in Vienna it was of utmost importance that the Stadholder General was both capable and loyal – Erik was, and the Queen had noticed.

“Milady, you can trust me!” he answered and bowed exactly as much as a Stadholder General was expected to in front of the King’s mother, not more, not less.

“Well not just me, but the entire Kingdom!” she smiled back with almost flirty eyes “but thanks anyway!”

He blushed slightly “Of course Milady!”

She really liked young Erik, she had even thought of introducing him as heir to the Throne in case Wilhjalm had died and his son either been disposed of or out of control. Erik didn’t know that however and didn’t need to.

To be continued…

Regards

Steffen Redbeard
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  #703  
Old August 2nd, 2012, 09:17 AM
arctic warrior arctic warrior is offline
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I really like the Queen!
Could be modelled on one of the two early Margretha's - (Sambiria/Sprænghest ("blown horse") or I) or Sophia of Mecklenburg. Anyway nice touch.
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  #704  
Old August 3rd, 2012, 11:50 AM
Redbeard Redbeard is offline
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I really like the Queen!
Could be modelled on one of the two early Margretha's - (Sambiria/Sprænghest ("blown horse") or I) or Sophia of Mecklenburg. Anyway nice touch.
A little from all, and anyway I like to "work" with a competent player, who if not necessarily works behind the scenes, but who from a supporting role really steal the show.

Such characters are in OTL often given very bad PR, especially the women, but I think their zeal to advance their sons or husbands is very fascinating. This one (haven't found a name for her yet) first saved not only her husband from ending up a depressed alcoholic, but also the Kingdom in the process, and next saved her son from being an ass - and in case that failed/fails even has a plan for a substitute.

What a Lady

Regards

Steffen Redbeard
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  #705  
Old August 7th, 2012, 12:06 PM
Redbeard Redbeard is offline
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Summary 1638: The King of North has decided to turn his attention towards the Balkans (see summary of post 702) and has announced that he will visit the Emperor in Vienna.

The King of North personally visiting the Emperor was a sensation. Vassals and other subjects of course on a regular basis had paid their respects and had kneeled before the Emperor – detailed court etiquette existed for that. But nobody expected the King of North to bow let alone kneel for anybody, in fact some feared that the King would demand that the Emperor bowed. It was well known that the King of North was gathering a huge army to intervene on the Balkans and who really could exclude that he came as an invader?! Some remembered how the Crusaders centuries ago on the way to thrash Muslims had sacked Constantinople and really had started the decline of said Empire – was that the destiny in wait for the Holy Roman Empire?

The first encounters with the King of North and his army were not like the previous invasions encountered by the Empire though. Most came in large barges on the Danube, but when landing to camp for the night everything went about in strict order as the men silently worked to raise huge tent camps. No drunken looters and no “requisitioning” of supplies, everything was paid for in good prices – in silver coins – and at night you could hear the soldiers sing – psalms!

Some cases of religious frenzy were experienced as citizens babbled about “an army of Angels having landed to enforce the Kingdom of Heaven…!” Most however just watched with a nervous smile and tried to think of all the good silver earned but still hoped it would soon be over – this was simply too strange.

A nervous smile was also what the Emperor’s face showed when he watched the King of North close along the long red carpet laid out in the Great Camp just outside Vienna. It had been agreed that this most unusual situation called for unusual arrangements. The men from the north and their King perhaps were not used to huge and fine houses like in Vienna and so a huge tent camp was erected just outside Vienna. Of course not just a simple army camp, but with tents in the most exclusive textiles (the Emperor’s gold embroidered) and even with marble statues moved from Vienna to line the red carpet leading to the Emperor’s tent.

Had Krumvæld shown up in Vienna he probably would have filled all the worst expectations about the silent and somber Norsemen, and in that context King Wilhjalm’s extrovert character took the Imperial Court by both surprise and storm. Where they had expected the problems of entertaining a bull in a ball room they met a King with the most refined manners and an exquisite conversation talent. Not at least the Emperor was relieved and even found pleasure in being called “My Imperial brother and ally in the East!” – even the King’s mother Queen Sofia, who had accompanied the King, was a most intelligent and interesting Lady with great knowledge of art and culture – and politics as well.

Germany wasn’t mentioned in the negotiations at all and where Vienna perhaps had expected KoN hesitation to support Habsburg expansion on the Balkans they soon felt squeezed to bite over more than they could swallow. The KoN clearly wanted the HRE to be the block between the F-S and the Russians, but it wasn’t difficult to imagine that this could very well be like being caught between a rock and a hard place.

Events soon took over however as reports reached Vienna about a Russian army having entered Poland and marching in the direction of Saxony and Pomerania. In Vienna it was assumed this would have the King and his army immediately break up to encounter the danger, but Wilhjalm had no intention of that. “I have plenty of good men to take care of that, let us focus on the Balkans now Gentlemen!” he just said.

The Emperor and his men had difficulties understanding how the KoN could have that many men in the field, but reports confirmed that a Lennart of Elvsborg had been appointed Marsk and was heading an army marching towards the Russians. They knew that although the Kingdom produced an overwhelming stream of cash the King rarely hired mercenaries but rather had his own subjects trained and organized in military units, but it puzzled them where all the men came from. In Imperial lands commandeering some peasants first of all wouldn’t produce good soldiers and next would be an assault on somebody’s property. If peasants were in the army who should farm the land and who should pay the villeinage to the Lord? Some could tell that in the KoN there really weren’t Lords any longer. Of course some owned a lot more land than others but nobody really were forced to work somebody else’s land without being paid! And if one young man joined the army there would always be other men to do the jobs, at least if the Employer raised the pay! That such a perverted structure could work had to be attributed to the strange nature of the Norse, even the most simple Norsemen apparently found pleasure in their work and didn’t necessarily await orders or the whip to do so!?

Actually the Imperial camp soon felt like they were under a whip, as the King started planning the campaign on the Balkans only formally and superficially asking for Imperial consent. If some had hoped for the King to leave with the army they were disappointed however. A third Marsk, Fredrik Oranje, was appointed and put ahead of the army and the King announced: “I will stay here close to my beloved brother, the ruler of the East, so we together can guide the war effort!”

The Emperor hardly knew what to say or think but smiled nervously, what else could he do!?

To be continued…

Regards

Steffen Redbeard
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  #706  
Old August 7th, 2012, 12:53 PM
Uff Da the optimist Uff Da the optimist is offline
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KICK ASS!

A wonderful update indeed, where you intertwine storytelling with politics, religion, general situation update and even give a few pointers ahead.

I raise my glass of mead to thee Redbeard!
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  #707  
Old August 7th, 2012, 07:27 PM
Dannil Dannil is offline
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A magnificent update!

It seems like Wilhjalm is treating the emperor as some sort of vassal.
It will be interesting to follow how the Russian campaign will turn out, after all the Balkan is very far from home for our norsemen.

Also Fredrik Oranje! I wonder who he is related to…
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  #708  
Old August 8th, 2012, 07:44 AM
arctic warrior arctic warrior is offline
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Great update!
Queen Sophia - oh I love it!
But of course.

Curious to see how this Lennart of Elvsborg turns out.
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  #709  
Old August 8th, 2012, 09:17 AM
Redbeard Redbeard is offline
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Glad you like it - I like writing it

BTW Lennart's dad is called Torsten...

Regards

Steffen Redbeard
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  #710  
Old August 8th, 2012, 09:47 AM
arctic warrior arctic warrior is offline
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BTW Lennart's dad is called Torsten...

Regards

Steffen Redbeard

Thanks! ... son of ...
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  #711  
Old August 13th, 2012, 02:08 PM
Redbeard Redbeard is offline
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First: Waouv 100.000+ views – thanks for all the interest!


Summary 1639: Krumvæld is in command of the army in France and so far with limited forces successfully has kept the French-Spanish at bay. In the South East King Wilhjalm (and his mother) personally has visited the Emperor and has forged the alliance and the coming campaign in the Balkans under command of Marsk Fredrik Oranje. A Russian invasion of Poland is to be countered by a third KoN army under Marsk Lennart of Elvsborg.

The Balkan campaign soon had all of Wallachia under control and the Russian army bogged down in the Danube delta was practically annihilated as numerous river craft armed with light cannons prevented the Russians from crossing the river. Russian warships from the Black Sea Fleet tried to intervene, but being built for the deep waters of the Black Sea they soon were grounded and taken in night operations.

In Poland the Poles had been approached by the Russians about a possible alliance but while secretly negotiating the Poles had kept the KoN well informed about Russian intentions. Apparently the Russians hoped to catch the KoN out on a limp and advance as far as Jutland, but instead they had hardly entered Polish territory before they met a remarkably swift moving Marsk Lennart imposing a bloody nose and some broken ribs on the Russian army and soon entered Ukraine. “The defense of Jutland starts in Galicia and goes eastward from there!” as Lennart is said to have said, anyway it earned him the epithet “The savior of Jutland”.


The planned push for Constantinople ran into serious trouble though. In contrast to the Wallachians the Bulgarians blocking the way to Constantinople found the Russians to be some quite fine guys and fiercely fought alongside the Russians. Next the Russians were in undisputed command of the Black Sea and could send supplies and reinforcements across the Black sea much faster than the KoN and HRE could across the muddy Balkan roads.

The F-S and their new Greek allies tried to advance on the Imperial Jewish Free-city of Thessaloniki and a F-S fleet blockaded the city. The F-S had not expected strong resistance, but soon found the Aegean infested with Privateers apparently organized by the Jewish merchants and on land it was no walk in the park either. Constant attacks in the night by Jewish “bandits”, not unlike what had been experienced on Zealand early in the century, and Thessaloniki itself had no intention of surrendering but kept talking about “Massada”. It had been planned to transport heavy siege artillery by sea, but a real battlefleet under a banner with the Star of David had showed up and lifted the blockade. The ships in the Jewish battlefleet were obviously not new, apparently a number of former Ottoman ships had been bought from the new regional rulers with a lust for cash greater than their naval ambitions. A lot of former Ottoman sailors were happy to take employment but also a great number of Jews who were ecstatic about the opportunity to fight under the Star of David. Not one single slave was onboard, even the Galleys were rowed by free men.

Without their siege artillery and cut off from their overseas communication the F-S really couldn’t see the use of staying and marched back to Greece. A HRE army force arrived a few days after, and historians for centuries afterwards have debated if Thessaloniki freed itself of if the vicinity of HRE troops did the job. For Thessaloniki, or “New Jerusalem” as it later would be called, it anyways was seen as the start of an epoch in the history of the Jewish people.

As 1639 closed the fighting also died out on most fronts. Illyria was occupied by the HRE, Wallachia by Fredrik Oranje’s combined KoN/HRE army. Thessaloniki thrived and Constantinople and most of Asia minor was held by Russia and Greece by the F-S. Lennart had been given permission to enter deep into Russia and had reached Kiev but constant fighting and the usual attrition from campaigning had made it clear that further advances would be unwise without further preparations and substantial reinforcements.

At Wilhjalm’s HQ they had to realize they still were far from the original strategic object of dislodging Russia from its new Mediterranean access by taking Constantinople and that it would take a huge effort to do so. The money raised so far and spent had been sufficient and a similar amount of war bonds probably could be sold in the next years, but Erik Estridsson (see post 702) had also clearly warned that two years or more of issuing extra war bonds would require most of the future tax revenue for decades to pay installments and interest. Marsk Fredrik Oranje had proposed a plan where a peace was sought based on status quo and Wallachia and Thessaloniki used as bases from where to interrupt Russian and F-S connections. It would involve some costs but much less than a prolonged major war. King Wilhjalm really felt it was half hearted but if continuing the war would rip out the entire heart half a heart perhaps would be better?

To be continued – but not until September. Friday morning I leave for Alaska, hoping to take a Grizzly, and will not be home again until early September.

Regards

Steffen Redbeard
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  #712  
Old August 13th, 2012, 02:49 PM
General Greene General Greene is offline
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Interesting developments Redbeard, and an excellently written update as well. I like how you fully display the logistical problems that effect all levels of military operations.

I do have a question however. The free city of Thessaloniki made a lot of sense when you first brought it up, but while I agree with the idea of a city that Jew's are allowed to inhabit peacefully, are you sure one: the very Catholic Hapsburgs will allow them to run the city, and two the Jews will significantly displace the sizeable population of Christians I'm sure live in Thessaloniki at the time? I'm sure they would be influential, and that many Jews woule immigrate there, but I'm not sure the healthy amount of anti-semitism floating around in Europe at the time would allow them to have to much of a long leash. I feel like any free city would have to have a significant Christian influence to avoid the Hapsburgs being marked as apostates by the RCC.
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  #713  
Old August 13th, 2012, 03:09 PM
kasumigenx kasumigenx is offline
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It would be interesting to see a map of europe this timeline..
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No.

WIlson was a hyprocrat: the "self determination" was for the European people only, not the "uncivilized" people in the colonies.
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  #714  
Old August 13th, 2012, 06:47 PM
Redbeard Redbeard is offline
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Originally Posted by General Greene View Post
Interesting developments Redbeard, and an excellently written update as well. I like how you fully display the logistical problems that effect all levels of military operations.

I do have a question however. The free city of Thessaloniki made a lot of sense when you first brought it up, but while I agree with the idea of a city that Jew's are allowed to inhabit peacefully, are you sure one: the very Catholic Hapsburgs will allow them to run the city, and two the Jews will significantly displace the sizeable population of Christians I'm sure live in Thessaloniki at the time? I'm sure they would be influential, and that many Jews woule immigrate there, but I'm not sure the healthy amount of anti-semitism floating around in Europe at the time would allow them to have to much of a long leash. I feel like any free city would have to have a significant Christian influence to avoid the Hapsburgs being marked as apostates by the RCC.
In OTL the Ottomans apparently invited Jews to live in the city, and by 1519 54% of the city's population were Jews.

At the dissolution of the Ottoman Empire in this ATL and the capture of Thessaloniki by Habsburg forces (after the Russians have sacked the city) mainly Jews dare return and in return for financial assistance the Emperor give them status as Imperial Free City. As I have indicated in the ATL (see post 682) many of the Emperor's subjects are very sceptical towards "these murderers of Christ", but are told to shut up, as more important matters are on stake (money).

I'm sure strong anti-semitic sentiments could be found everywhere in the Habsburg Empire all through its lifetime, but it also appears like the Habsburg Empire was a relatively safe place to be Jewish in, as the Emperor simply didn't accept anybody but him chastising his subjects, certainly not if they were productive. In contemporary contrast would be Russia with regular and semi-official progroms and Spain where the Jews had been expulsed. Many of the Jews in Thessaloniki actually came from Spain. In this TL the Russian religious fanatism BTW is stronger - and ya' aint' see' nothing yet!

I actually think the city being almost 100% Jewish makes it easier for the Habsburgs as they won't have to accept Christians being subjects to a Jewish regime. Anyway the city has never before been Habsburg and until recently was under Ottoman control - Jewish or Muslim - all infidels to the Habsburgs - but "the Thessalonikians are our infidels!"

I'm aware that introducing a Jewish Free State in 17th century is quite hazardous, as it might easily have uncontrollable effects on the ATL centuries after (I plan to keep this going until mid 20th century!) but as I have already messed up the Middle East by dissolving the Ottoman Empire I thought I should give it a try. It certainly gives a lot of interesting opportunities.

Regards

Steffen Redbeard
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  #715  
Old August 13th, 2012, 08:55 PM
Redbeard Redbeard is offline
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It would be interesting to see a map of europe this timeline..
Maps are worked on - please have patience

Regards

Steffen Redbeard
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  #716  
Old August 14th, 2012, 07:15 AM
arctic warrior arctic warrior is offline
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...defence of Jutland starts in Galicia...; ...halt at Kiev; now thats sensible we don't want a Poltava do we, eh?
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  #717  
Old August 14th, 2012, 05:48 PM
michaelbaneblade michaelbaneblade is offline
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F-S Navy

Just a quick question Redbeard What the heck are the F-S Navy up too and why arnt they trying to shut down the KoN commerce. And generally make a nuinence of themselves.
I am assuming the combined Navel forces of Spain and france would be big enough to overwhelm the KoN Navy and then they could go about showing the merchants of the North why supporting the war is a really bad Idea when they cant trade. Or is it just stalemate on the atlantic-english channel.
Sorry Just in the mood to be awkard. Brillient storey bye the way, cant wait fo the next update
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  #718  
Old August 14th, 2012, 07:39 PM
General Greene General Greene is offline
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Originally Posted by Redbeard View Post
In OTL the Ottomans apparently invited Jews to live in the city, and by 1519 54% of the city's population were Jews.

At the dissolution of the Ottoman Empire in this ATL and the capture of Thessaloniki by Habsburg forces (after the Russians have sacked the city) mainly Jews dare return and in return for financial assistance the Emperor give them status as Imperial Free City. As I have indicated in the ATL (see post 682) many of the Emperor's subjects are very sceptical towards "these murderers of Christ", but are told to shut up, as more important matters are on stake (money).

I'm sure strong anti-semitic sentiments could be found everywhere in the Habsburg Empire all through its lifetime, but it also appears like the Habsburg Empire was a relatively safe place to be Jewish in, as the Emperor simply didn't accept anybody but him chastising his subjects, certainly not if they were productive. In contemporary contrast would be Russia with regular and semi-official progroms and Spain where the Jews had been expulsed. Many of the Jews in Thessaloniki actually came from Spain. In this TL the Russian religious fanatism BTW is stronger - and ya' aint' see' nothing yet!

I actually think the city being almost 100% Jewish makes it easier for the Habsburgs as they won't have to accept Christians being subjects to a Jewish regime. Anyway the city has never before been Habsburg and until recently was under Ottoman control - Jewish or Muslim - all infidels to the Habsburgs - but "the Thessalonikians are our infidels!"

I'm aware that introducing a Jewish Free State in 17th century is quite hazardous, as it might easily have uncontrollable effects on the ATL centuries after (I plan to keep this going until mid 20th century!) but as I have already messed up the Middle East by dissolving the Ottoman Empire I thought I should give it a try. It certainly gives a lot of interesting opportunities.

Regards

Steffen Redbeard
Ah, that makes much more sense now. Also didn't realize the high Jewish population OTL. I can see though someone down the road wanting to bring back the church to one of the cities visited by the Apostle Paul, but the idea of a Jewish free city is a cool one and like just about everything else in this story, makes it very interesting to follow. Keep up the good work.
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  #719  
Old August 14th, 2012, 08:54 PM
Sian Sian is offline
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Originally Posted by michaelbaneblade View Post
Just a quick question Redbeard What the heck are the F-S Navy up too and why arnt they trying to shut down the KoN commerce. And generally make a nuinence of themselves.
I am assuming the combined Navel forces of Spain and france would be big enough to overwhelm the KoN Navy and then they could go about showing the merchants of the North why supporting the war is a really bad Idea when they cant trade. Or is it just stalemate on the atlantic-english channel.
Sorry Just in the mood to be awkard. Brillient storey bye the way, cant wait fo the next update
Doing an earlier war, KoN used their massive naval superiority, to enforce a stop for slave trade ... and given that KoN have a tradition for naval expertise then ...
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  #720  
Old August 14th, 2012, 09:28 PM
Redbeard Redbeard is offline
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Originally Posted by michaelbaneblade View Post
Just a quick question Redbeard What the heck are the F-S Navy up too and why arnt they trying to shut down the KoN commerce. And generally make a nuinence of themselves.
I am assuming the combined Navel forces of Spain and france would be big enough to overwhelm the KoN Navy and then they could go about showing the merchants of the North why supporting the war is a really bad Idea when they cant trade. Or is it just stalemate on the atlantic-english channel.
Sorry Just in the mood to be awkard. Brillient storey bye the way, cant wait fo the next update
KoN is a merchant nation making big money on overseas trade and anyway need naval strength to keep the eastern and western parts of the Kingdom together - so where ambitions on land might be discussed, there is never doubt about funding naval force.

You could call the KoN an OTL England on steroids!

F-S trade is harassed and especially the Portugese are suffering and quite unhappy - but more about that when I return in September.

Regards

Steffen Redbeard
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