Happy and Glorious.

[My Username is Inigo Montoya]

Suez Crisis analog causes the US to go to war with the Anglo-French alliance?

[naraht]

Originally Posted by Devolved

Don't worry. The Allied navies will be busier in WW4.

WWIV being when Britain and Germany support Stalin against the US, Italy and Japan who support Beria?

Seriously, presuming anything short of one of the Red Army Generals gaining power instantly, offering peace (on the pre-WWII borders?) and no more bombing, Russia/USSR is going to be temporarily knocked out of the list of great powers. At this point the the US/UK/White Commonwealth contain at least 50% of the world Manufacturing Power (and increasing every time they drop a nuke on the Western USSR). While I presume that ASB getting all of Eurasifrica and Latin America to work together could creating a Victorious Alliance by 1960, I'm not sure.

So either WWIV is at least 15 years away *or* it is US vs. UK/Commonwealth. This is starting to look like some of the late 1940s sci-fi that imagined a space race to the moon between the US and the UK...

[My Username is Inigo Montoya]

Originally Posted by naraht

WWIV being when Britain and Germany support Stalin against the US, Italy and Japan who support Beria?

Seriously, presuming anything short of one of the Red Army Generals gaining power instantly, offering peace (on the pre-WWII borders?) and no more bombing, Russia/USSR is going to be temporarily knocked out of the list of great powers. At this point the the US/UK/White Commonwealth contain at least 50% of the world Manufacturing Power (and increasing every time they drop a nuke on the Western USSR). While I presume that ASB getting all of Eurasifrica and Latin America to work together could creating a Victorious Alliance by 1960, I'm not sure.

So either WWIV is at least 15 years away *or* it is US vs. UK/Commonwealth. This is starting to look like some of the late 1940s sci-fi that imagined a space race to the moon between the US and the UK...

It can't be that long away, as nuclear proliferation will make warships -except nuclear submarines- fade into irrelevance.

[naraht]

Originally Posted by JaneStillman

Suez Crisis analog causes the US to go to war with the Anglo-French alliance?

Yup. But in this case it is Britain and France supporting Panama against the US/Colombian invasion after the Panamanians Nationalize the Canal.

Though a land invasion through the Darien Gap strikes me as one of *ugliest* possible land invasions on the Planet. After the Colombians finish that, they can go invade Hell, it will be easier.

[naraht]

Originally Posted by JaneStillman

It can be that long away, as nuclear proliferation will make warships -except nuclear submarines- fade into irrelevance.

Both Nuclear Proliferation and Naval Power will go in very different ways from OTL. The first question is whether France will get information on how to build a bomb from either the US or the UK and even if they do, who else gets it for Free? The ROC? Germany? the USSR even if it survives won't get it as fast as they did in OTL even if they want it.

As for Navies, I *guess* the Naval Domination of the US/UK/Fr/It/Ja was as high in 1919, but I'm not sure and even then US/Ja relations weren't great. So do you build the battleships if there is no Naval rival?

[usertron2020]

Has anyone noticed that there has been no posting by Devolved since his last rather tongue-in-cheek remark? I imagine he must be laughing himself silly by now.

[kellineil]

Well wouldn't you be?

[usertron2020]

Originally Posted by kellineil

Well wouldn't you be?

Isn't your question out of place, considering the circumstances?

[stevep]

Originally Posted by usertron2020

Isn't your question out of place, considering the circumstances?

usertron2020

That confused me? I'm assuming that kellineil is saying if you were in Devolved's position of making a joke remark and people taking it seriously you would probably be amused at their reaction as well? Or are we missing something that makes it offensive?

Steve

[kellineil]

Originally Posted by stevep

usertron2020

That confused me? I'm assuming that kellineil is saying if you were in Devolved's position of making a joke remark and people taking it seriously you would probably be amused at their reaction as well? Or are we missing something that makes it offensive?

Steve

That's exactly how I meant it

[usertron2020]

Originally Posted by kellineil

That's exactly how I meant it

Understood then.

[Devolved]

Happy and Glorious

continued


February 3rd 1947

China

The Soviet commander Malinovsky refused to meet with Mao on that day. He couldn't bear to see his smug face telling him 'I told you so' when news arrived of the Beria coup. Instead he met with his closest officers and advisers and tried to gauge their true feelings without betraying his own. Most of the officers were quite vehement in their hatred of Beria and looked forward to him being crushed. Malinovsky then nodded and said he felt the same way.

He then received a message from Stalin instructing him to purge any suspected of being sympathetic to Beria and to arrest all senior NKVD officers and place all lower ranks under the command of SMERSH until further notice.

Meanwhile around Tientsin the US forces continued to face guerilla attacks. What made it worse was that some were wearing KMT uniforms and using American weapons.

Sea of Japan

Soviet submarines scored a rare success when they torpedoed and sank a USN oil tanker that was supporting the 3rd Fleet.

Dutch East Indies

The Dutch authorities found that they had lost control over 75% of Java and were now facing a more organized insurrection in Sumatra. With the British unable to help due to the emergency in Malaya the Netherlands government formally asked if the Australians could spare troops. The response from the Australian government was to say that they were already committed to supporting the Allies in the Mediterranean and that their remobiliztion was still in it's early stages.

In other words they had politley said no.

Korea

The Soviets started to dig in and prepare for American counter attacks. Truscott was still not satisifed with the quality of most of the troops under his command and didn't think they were up to the job of a counter attack without more training and planning. In the meantime the Soviets were subjected to larger and larger attacks from American airpower. The interdiction of supply lines caused heavy losses among vehicles caught in the open plus Korean civilians looking for firewood, many of whom were strafed.

The Soviet airforce did offer some resistance but in the last few days they had lost 16 fighters and 13 attack aircraft in air to air combat in return for shooting down 2 mustangs, a USN Bearcat and B 26 Invader bomber. Amercian losses to ground fire, however, were much heavier and the Soviets were starting to set up a reasonably potent AA umbrella that brought down 6 American planes on February 3rd alone.

TBC

[usertron2020]

Originally Posted by Devolved

February 3rd 1947

Korea

The Soviets were subjected to larger and larger attacks from American airpower. The interdiction of supply lines caused heavy losses among vehicles caught in the open plus Korean civilians looking for firewood, many of whom were strafed.

Is it permissible to ask why the underlined and highlighted section was included?

[Dathi THorfinnsson]

Originally Posted by usertron2020

Is it permissible to ask why the underlined and highlighted section was included?

Unintended collateral damage? That may have future consequences? To show that the ,,good guys,, arent perfect.

I, too, was a bit nonplused by that bit, seemingly coming from nowhere, but i suspect the authors going somewhere with it.

[Devolved]

Originally Posted by Dathi THorfinnsson

Unintended collateral damage? That may have future consequences? To show that the ,,good guys,, arent perfect.

I, too, was a bit nonplused by that bit, seemingly coming from nowhere, but i suspect the authors going somewhere with it.

The Russian troops are mostly dug in but the civilians are not. It is winter and the inhabitants of Seoul need firewood so they have to go and look for it. They are then strafed by pilots who are not sure if they are civilians or troops deploying.

[usertron2020]

Originally Posted by Devolved

The Russian troops are mostly dug in but the civilians are not. It is winter and the inhabitants of Seoul need firewood so they have to go and look for it. They are then strafed by pilots who are not sure if they are civilians or troops deploying.

That explains WHAT happened. We already knew that.

No doubt, civilians in the even harsher European winter are looking for firewood too, yes? No doubt, aerial strafing is resulting in civilian casualties there, as well, and in far greater numbers, considering the numbers of forces involved and populations.

This doesn't explain why strafing of civilians was highlighted in Korea and nowhere else.

??? Are there any conclusions to be drawn from this?

[Devolved]

Originally Posted by usertron2020

That explains WHAT happened. We already knew that.

No doubt, civilians in the even harsher European winter are looking for firewood too, yes? No doubt, aerial strafing is resulting in civilian casualties there, as well, and in far greater numbers, considering the numbers of forces involved and populations.

This doesn't explain why strafing of civilians was highlighted in Korea and nowhere else.

??? Are there any conclusions to be drawn from this?

Because it was only action of significance on the Korean front that day.

[Devolved]

Happy and Glorious

continued


February 3rd 1947

Moscow

SMERSH troops acting under the command of Viktor Abakumov took Khimki outside Moscow without much trouble and it soon became clear that Beria's NKVD men would not offer serious resistance. Units of the Soviet air force soon began to bomb selected targets in Moscow and there were mass surrenders of NKVD troops to regular army forces in the hope of avoiding being captured by SMERSH.

Beria was joined by Malenkov in his bunker. The look of concern on Malenkov's face told Beria what he already knew.

"I thought we had a real chance" said a crestfallen Beria.
"We were both fools" replied Malenkov.
"It just goes to show that in the end you can't trust your men in this country. Do you think this was how the Czar felt 30 years ago?"

Malenkov had no desire to hear about the fate of the Czar and asked if there was an escape route. He was told that there was and that he should use it.
"What do you mean 'I' should use it. Surely you are coming too"
"No. I won't run away"
"Don't be an idiot. You will die"
"Everyone dies in the end"

Malenkov quickly gave up on his accomplice and made his escape as Beria planned his last stand.

In Leningrad Zhadanov moved against the NKVD forces and soon there was heavy fighting. Unlike Moscow the NKVD units fought hard and were helped by the mass desertions and low morale in the army. As a result Zhadanov found himself under siege in his own HQ.

Meanwhile Marshal Zhukov received a message from Stalin praising him as his 'greatest general'. This caused Zhukov to laugh louder than he had done for years.

Stalin was exhausted but his mind was focused. He was reunited with Molotov and Bulganin and he felt like he was back in charge again.

During his first meeting since the Beria coup Molotov suggested to him that perhaps the time had come for a change in tactics and that the Soviet Union should open negotiations with the Western Allies.

Stalin expected him to say this and he saw the logic in what Molotov said. He was not a Hitler and he had a coldness and clarity of vision that the Nazi leader had lacked. He was aware of the collapse in morale in many parts of the country and he knew better than to rant and rave about treason and cowardice even though he wanted to.

He immediately understood that his armies would be unlikely to gain much more than they already had. He was also told that even Korea was becoming a closed door. Perhaps now really was a good time to call the war a draw and end it. He would then tell the world that only the Atom Bomb had saved the corrupt West from defeat. He was also confident that he would have his own bomb in about 2 to 3 years. All he had to do was survive the next few weeks.

TBC

[stevep]

Originally Posted by Devolved

Because it was only action of significance on the Korean front that day.

Devolved

That sounds rather odd? The strafing of suspected enemy forces in Korea is a logical move. As with elsewhere this is likely to result in some civilian losses. Hence it seems pointless to mention those losses here. Mention increasing US air power and its use by all means, especially if the only major activity on the front at this period but the addition of the fact that this action causes civilian casualties is redundant.

Steve

[stevep]

Devolved

Well Beria proved very much a paper tiger. However I think Stalin is probably dreaming if he thinks he will escape without at least serious reducations in his powers. No way will the allies agree to him keeping western Germany or Poland and their likely to want to remove Soviet influence from the 'Soviet' zone of Germany and parts of the Balkans and Romania as well.

If he agrees to that, remembering Lenin's example, he might survive as the allies might wish to avoid either heavy fighting and/or the instability of the mess the Soviet empire will be and having to clear up/control it. However is he willing and able to go that far? Also even if he manages to come to some agreement with the allies what sort of state is the Soviet [dis]Union going to be in?

Steve

Originally Posted by Devolved

Happy and Glorious

continued


February 3rd 1947

Moscow

SMERSH troops acting under the command of Viktor Abakumov took Khimki outside Moscow without much trouble and it soon became clear that Beria's NKVD men would not offer serious resistance. Units of the Soviet air force soon began to bomb selected targets in Moscow and there were mass surrenders of NKVD troops to regular army forces in the hope of avoiding being captured by SMERSH.

Beria was joined by Malenkov in his bunker. The look of concern on Malenkov's face told Beria what he already knew.

"I thought we had a real chance" said a crestfallen Beria.
"We were both fools" replied Malenkov.
"It just goes to show that in the end you can't trust your men in this country. Do you think this was how the Czar felt 30 years ago?"

Malenkov had no desire to hear about the fate of the Czar and asked if there was an escape route. He was told that there was and that he should use it.
"What do you mean 'I' should use it. Surely you are coming too"
"No. I won't run away"
"Don't be an idiot. You will die"
"Everyone dies in the end"

Malenkov quickly gave up on his accomplice and made his escape as Beria planned his last stand.

In Leningrad Zhadanov moved against the NKVD forces and soon there was heavy fighting. Unlike Moscow the NKVD units fought hard and were helped by the mass desertions and low morale in the army. As a result Zhadanov found himself under siege in his own HQ.

Meanwhile Marshal Zhukov received a message from Stalin praising him as his 'greatest general'. This caused Zhukov to laugh louder than he had done for years.

Stalin was exhausted but his mind was focused. He was reunited with Molotov and Bulganin and he felt like he was back in charge again.

During his first meeting since the Beria coup Molotov suggested to him that perhaps the time had come for a change in tactics and that the Soviet Union should open negotiations with the Western Allies.

Stalin expected him to say this and he saw the logic in what Molotov said. He was not a Hitler and he had a coldness and clarity of vision that the Nazi leader had lacked. He was aware of the collapse in morale in many parts of the country and he knew better than to rant and rave about treason and cowardice even though he wanted to.

He immediately understood that his armies would be unlikely to gain much more than they already had. He was also told that even Korea was becoming a closed door. Perhaps now really was a good time to call the war a draw and end it. He would then tell the world that only the Atom Bomb had saved the corrupt West from defeat. He was also confident that he would have his own bomb in about 2 to 3 years. All he had to do was survive the next few weeks.

TBC