An Age of Miracles: The Revival of Rhomanion

[Dyranum]

So, whatever happened to the Arletian war for Acquitaine started sometime earlier? It just seems to have disappeared into a puff of air, or did I miss something?

Also, while I know you're going for the Franco-English union to survive, something which would be fun would be it collapsing spectacularly sometime in the 18th or 19th centuries, and then having to claw its way back up again, potentially losing a few parts for good. Maybe couple that with some sort of liberal uprising in Paris? Could be fun, but it's not my TL, so, eh.

[Alexandria Eschate]

Originally Posted by Dyranum

So, whatever happened to the Arletian war for Acquitaine started sometime earlier? It just seems to have disappeared into a puff of air, or did I miss something?

Also, while I know you're going for the Franco-English union to survive, something which would be fun would be it collapsing spectacularly sometime in the 18th or 19th centuries, and then having to claw its way back up again, potentially losing a few parts for good. Maybe couple that with some sort of liberal uprising in Paris? Could be fun, but it's not my TL, so, eh.

1477: At the same time, peace is made between France-England and Arles. Overall it is an Arletian victory as the border has been expanded to the town of Aiguillon, near where the Lot flows in the Garonne, roughly half of the way to the Atlantic Ocean. Yet it is not as well as Louis had hoped, as he’d dreamed of controlling Bordeaux.

The effects of the war are far-reaching. It is apparent that Arles cannot decisively beat even a weakened France-England without the support of others. Norway-Scotland had been uninvolved because of the Danish war, meaning that England had been free to support Aquitaine without distraction. To bolster Arles’ fighting chances for the next round, Louis orders the construction of a series of canals to improve navigation on the upper Garonne and its use as a supply line (financed by a mix of local, Catalan, and Plethon-Medici capital). In the same vein, he also embarks on a program of internal improvement, draining swamps for farmland, building roads and mills, and encouraging the peasantry to have more children.

While England had been badly damaged at Cannae, France had not, and so it had mostly fallen on that part of the union to defend Aquitaine. The respectable showing of French troops does much to dispel the contempt Englishmen had felt after the victories of Edward VI, and the experience of fighting side by side against a common enemy has also improved relations between the two kingdoms.

Anyway, since England-France/France-England is going to lose Aquitaine one of these days, though I don't think in this generation, I think that would satisfy you.

@Basileus444 If I may suggest, can you come up with a new name for France-England,as it sounds kinda unwieldy. I know you've been using the Plantagenet Empire unofficially, but could you make Edward VII name it as such, or maybe the United Kingdom of England and France (then we can call it the UK) or something easier to say.

[Elfwine]

I vote for the Plantagent Empire if France-England is dropped.

The United Kingdom implies that the two countries are bound together on some basis other than just the king of both countries being the same man.

[SavoyTruffle]

Plantagenet Empire sounds good. There are countries named after the ruling house (Liechtenstein comes to mind, as does the Ottoman Empire).

[PlayerOne]

The Dual Monarchy? I don't know, I just remember a Vicky II mod using that name for a France-England.

[Dyranum]

Originally Posted by PlayerOne

The Dual Monarchy? I don't know, I just remember a Vicky II mod using that name for a France-England.

I believe that you are referring to Divergences, which has the Dual Monarchy of France and England (or France-England, don't remember). This was brought about the English winning the 100-years war, IIRC, which in turn was brought about the main divergence from OTL.

[cimon]

Originally Posted by Elfwine

Because of course professionals never ever make mistakes or get overconfident or forget basic rules.

That may be true of an idealized version of Kristina and Leo, but not of actual humans or plausible fictional ones.

Not basic staff Elfwine;they don't;if they do,what happens with the more complicated issues? it is like a soldier never leaves his rifle or wears his hat.These he does on reflex.Don't argue in general.

[Elfwine]

Originally Posted by cimon

Not basic staff Elfwine;they don't;if they do,what happens with the more complicated issues? it is like a soldier never leaves his rifle or wears his hat.These he does on reflex.Don't argue in general.

Again, humans make dumb mistakes. The idea that this is "reflex" is just not true.

And "don't argue in general"?

I'm not arguing in general, I'm pointing out that you're wrong in regards to this. As (I'm pretty sure its in regards to this issue) SavoyTruffle said, humans are not automatons - there are an uncountably large number of ways humans can make slipshod mistakes even with things that one would think they would know better.

[Trevayne]

Hi all

Great timeline. I just spent a good part of the past three weeks reading 230+ pages. Wow.

As for this issue, people, even very good people can make mistakes. For basic examples, I am sitting here in Afghanistan and I know at least four Soldiers who were busted in the last 6 months for temporarily misplacing their weapons.

For an expert example, look at what happened to Tommy McGuire. MAJ McGuire was the second highest scoring US fighter pilot in WW2, and he died because of a rookie mistake. While trying to aid a fellow pilot, he pulled too tight a turn, and his P38 stalled. If this had happened at 10,000 feet, he would have recovered. Since he was at 300 feet, he crashed and died.

Mistakes happen.

[cimon]

Originally Posted by Trevayne

Hi all

Great timeline. I just spent a good part of the past three weeks reading 230+ pages. Wow.

As for this issue, people, even very good people can make mistakes. For basic examples, I am sitting here in Afghanistan and I know at least four Soldiers who were busted in the last 6 months for temporarily misplacing their weapons.

For an expert example, look at what happened to Tommy McGuire. MAJ McGuire was the second highest scoring US fighter pilot in WW2, and he died because of a rookie mistake. While trying to aid a fellow pilot, he pulled too tight a turn, and his P38 stalled. If this had happened at 10,000 feet, he would have recovered. Since he was at 300 feet, he crashed and died.

Mistakes happen.

These things are known to occur;but they are not the usual course of events therefore unlikely to happen on balance of probabilities.It is not exactly an argument that we take the unlikely event(unusual happening) and magnify it.

[eliphas8]

Originally Posted by cimon

These things are known to occur;but they are not the usual course of events therefore unlikely to happen on balance of probabilities

That's not how people work, it depends entirely on the personality of the people involved. It's not like people don't make make stupid mistakes for many reasons. Its not like history isn't rife with otherwise geniuses making a dumb mistake for whatever reason because they where people and not good decision making robots.

[Arrix85]

About Kristina's slip up, I can only suspect that a part of her wanted to come clean (and this was true for a long time) or to be discovered, whatever, circumstances intervened. She wasn't a monolithic mastermind with no doubts or regrets, so...

Leo may be a good military commander, but I don't see him reacting well to unexpected circumstances and anything screwing his path to glory would only send him in a fit of rage, which doesn't go that well with strategic flexibility.

[ed_montague]

Originally Posted by Arrix85

Leo may be a good military commander, but I don't see him reacting well to unexpected circumstances and anything screwing his path to glory would only send him in a fit of rage, which doesn't go that well with strategic flexibility.

Arles declares war on the Plantagenet Empire, wins early victories, gets stomped by some mildly clever English or French commander, Leo gets captured following a humiliating defeat, is ransomed back, loses face in the Arletian court, ends up hating his siblings even more.

Or he just dies.

[Arrix85]

Originally Posted by ed_montague

Arles declares war on the Plantagenet Empire, wins early victories, gets stomped by some mildly clever English or French commander, Leo gets captured following a humiliating defeat, is ransomed back, loses face in the Arletian court, ends up hating his siblings even more.

Or he just dies.

yeah, I totally see him blaming his siblings for his own failures. I really wish he dies (at least let's hope before trouble hits the roman empire) in some pointless blaze of glory, which probably woud only be his most preferred way to die.

[Evilprodigy]

In regards to the naming of France-Englann or Palagent Empire why can't it just be called what it was called IOTL?
The Angevin Empire.

[ed_montague]

It would be even worse if Rhomania goes and declares war on Arles just because Leo's there. That way, he'd be able to have a concrete reason to hate his brothers, the brilliant general Zeno and the able administrator Demetrios (or Herakleios, if Demetrios ends up unseated).

EDIT: England-France, France-England, Plantagenet, Angevin, whatever floats your boat, I suppose.

[Excubitor]

Originally Posted by ed_montague

It would be even worse if Rhomania goes and declares war on Arles just because Leo's there. That way, he'd be able to have a concrete reason to hate his brothers, the brilliant general Zeno and the able administrator Demetrios (or Herakleios, if Demetrios ends up unseated).

Why would they declare war on an ally and their biggest trading partner? Zeno might desire revenge but the rest are probably happy that Leo is out of the game (for the moment) and out of their hair.

[eliphas8]

Originally Posted by ed_montague

It would be even worse if Rhomania goes and declares war on Arles just because Leo's there. That way, he'd be able to have a concrete reason to hate his brothers, the brilliant general Zeno and the able administrator Demetrios (or Herakleios, if Demetrios ends up unseated).

EDIT: England-France, France-England, Plantagenet, Angevin, whatever floats your boat, I suppose.

They wouldn't invade Arles, they want Arles to be strong since its a massive trading partner of theirs and its in their best interest for Arles to do well in its war with the Plantangenats and possibly institute Roman style military reforms both of which they are helped in by Leo. Arles is effectively Rhonanians only permanent ally at the moment so it's hardly a bad thing leaving a good general (in A western army his tactics are really effective even if it's simple). The only ones who would truly want him dead are Andreas and Zeno.

[Dumanios]

Unfortunately, Leo's not getting killed in battle, and the Romans, if they have any semblance of sense, won't go and attack one of their few allies. Besides, if Rome would attack Arles, then Russia might take precaution to prevent them from being betrayed. As for Leo himself, will he be receiving the 'All the other reindeer' treatment in Arles?

[Excubitor]

Originally Posted by Dumanios

Unfortunately, Leo's not getting killed in battle, and the Romans, if they have any semblance of sense, won't go and attack one of their few allies. Besides, if Rome would attack Arles, then Russia might take precaution to prevent them from being betrayed. As for Leo himself, will he be receiving the 'All the other reindeer' treatment in Arles?

Seems to be the opposite actually. Arles is doing everything it can to make Leo feel welcomed what with the military command and the marriage.