Es Geloybte Aretz - a Germanwank

[Faeelin]

Originally Posted by carlton_bach

And the money? Far too much.

Look on the bright side. You gave China its only decent beer.

[Monty Burns]

Originally Posted by Faeelin

You gave China its only decent beer.

That's debatable. I liked Qingdao beer, for example, which means that most beer enthusiasts wouldn't consider that beverage "beer" at all...

[Caoster]

Originally Posted by carlton_bach

I'm assuming a similar opportunity presented itself. As I said, all the cool kids were carving up China, and just because Albert considers colonies less important, that doesn't mean he isn't going to opportunistically grab one to appease his NatLib supporters.

And the money? Far too much.

Just curious, because this was one example where Willy II directly overruled and countermanded Chancellor Hohenlohe, who wanted a diplomatic resolution.

[Dathi THorfinnsson]

Originally Posted by Monty Burns

That's debatable. I liked Qingdao beer, for example, which means that most beer enthusiasts wouldn't consider that beverage "beer" at all...

And what else does china brew thats close?

[Jotun]

Originally Posted by Monty Burns

That's debatable. I liked Qingdao beer, for example, which means that most beer enthusiasts wouldn't consider that beverage "beer" at all...

It isn't. It's made from RICE.

Does not conform to the commandment of purity. So it's a beer-like beverage.

[carlton_bach]

Originally Posted by Caoster

Just curious, because this was one example where Willy II directly overruled and countermanded Chancellor Hohenlohe, who wanted a diplomatic resolution.

I haven't looked into the details, but going on the assumption that the possdibility existed, that the political pressure would be the same, that Germany at this time has more investment capital at its disposal and that Albert wants a home port for the German China squadron (which New Guinea is unsuited for), I figured an annexation would happen. Since Qingdao existed IOTL, it was mostly a matter of going with what worked. (It's proven the Germans can grab Qingdao. it's not proven they could get any other Chinese port).

[Caoster]

Originally Posted by carlton_bach

I haven't looked into the details, but going on the assumption that the possdibility existed, that the political pressure would be the same, that Germany at this time has more investment capital at its disposal and that Albert wants a home port for the German China squadron (which New Guinea is unsuited for), I figured an annexation would happen. Since Qingdao existed IOTL, it was mostly a matter of going with what worked. (It's proven the Germans can grab Qingdao. it's not proven they could get any other Chinese port).

Oh yes. I agree in almost any universe, Germany would want to grab it as a base for the squadron.

But there is a difference between grabbing it for a base for your squadron, and grabbing it and spending $100 million in 1914 dollars, to make it into a model colony and a "Deutschland in China"

Kiautschou indeed was transformed into a modern realm with Germany investing upwards of $100 million.[12] The impoverished fishing village of Tsingtao was laid out with wide streets, solid housing areas, government buildings, electrification throughout, a sewer system and a safe drinking water supply, a rarity in large parts of Asia at that time and later. The area had the highest schools density and highest per capita student enrollment in all of China, with primary, secondary and vocational schools funded by the Berlin treasury and Protestant and Roman Catholic missions.[13]

[Monty Burns]

Originally Posted by carlton_bach

I haven't looked into the details, but going on the assumption that the possdibility existed, that the political pressure would be the same, that Germany at this time has more investment capital at its disposal and that Albert wants a home port for the German China squadron (which New Guinea is unsuited for), I figured an annexation would happen. Since Qingdao existed IOTL, it was mostly a matter of going with what worked. (It's proven the Germans can grab Qingdao. it's not proven they could get any other Chinese port).

Some treaty port in China is likely. A full naval base, though? I'd also assume that Albert would have tried hard to secure access to German trade without alienating Britain in any way. Under that premise, he might have even sided with the US promoting free trade in China.

[Caoster]

Not just a port. Not just a full naval base. But a show piece prestige money is no object modern model colony.

These 2 photos, 12 years apart.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Bu...htsbild%29.jpg

[carlton_bach]

13 June 1906, Berlin

It was a smallish book, printed in French, bound in blue cloth and well-thumbed. General von der Goltz had already added his own copious notes to the margins of the pages. Major von Seeckt picked it up from the desk and opened the first page. 'The Principles of Integralism' it read. The frontispiece identified A. Dubrovin as the author and gave St Petersburg as the place of printing.

“It is absolutely fascinating, Major.”, von der Goltz stated authoritatively. “This kind of thing reminds you not to underestimate our enemies. The French and their new artillery doctrine were interesting enough, and now the Russians go and produce something like this.”

“What is it about, Sir?”, von Seeckt replied, thumbing through the pages. Chapter I seemed to mostly deal with patriotism, which was nice, but not exactly surprising.”

Von der Goltz cocked his head. “Read the third chapter.”, he instructed. “It may well be the answer to the problem of modern warfare. Dubrovin – you know who he is?”

The major looked up questioningly.

“A very senior adviser to Czar Nicholas. A civilian, but he has the emperor's ear. Some say he practically runs the government by now. Anyway, this is heady stuff. Basically, he is writing about how to organise a society in such a way that the entirety of the people serve the nation, and the nation ensures the continued survival and greatness of the people. It basically takes the cash nexus out of the war effort.”

Von Seeckt sucked his teeth. “Not just conscription?” he asked, looking to find the right pages. “Ah, here: 'The existence of the individual being made possible only through the existence of his nation, it follows that the superordinate organism must be considered the superior claim. It ios, indeed, in the most immediate and personal interest of the individual to ensure the contiinued existence, vigour and might of his nation not for hope of any personal advancement to be gained thereby, but to ensure the life and happiness of his own issue in a future world. To impress this truth upon the consciousness of everyone must be the supreme duty of all institutions of instruction, and itself the animating principle in any member of the state's body politic.' Well, he's got that part right.”

The general nodded. “Not only right – he's built the organisation that's needed to make it work, that's what he's done. You've heard of the Patriotic Union, haven't you?”

Understanding dawned in Seeckt's eyes. Millions of members, a massive propaganda effort – the Alldeutscher Verband was nothing in comparison, and unlike the Social Democrats, they had the resources of government on its side. If you really could build a state based on these principles... it was a frightening prospect.

“Surely, these men will not make effective soldiers...” the major opined.

“Soldiers are not my concern, Major.”, von der Goltz interrupted. “Russia has more soldiers than she can arm or clothe. But consider what he says about a war economy. A system in which every productive effort becomes patriotic duty. I think it's in chapter five, the nation as a body having gained and secured the property of all its members and being the only security for their continued existence rightly may make claim to every resource within its borders to ensure its continued survival. It's damned inspiring..”

Von Seeckt nodded, already trying to locate the passages in the slim volume he held. What was it the man wrote: “It is imperative to impress upon the psyche of the people that to be a Russian national is an act, not a state. Being Russian can thus be inherited through the fortunate accident of birth, and those whose lot this was must be led to proper gratitude to be born to instruction in the true orthodox faith, in subjection to the all-Russian crown and the culture of its people. But it can also be earned through the conscious embrace of Russian acts, the deliberate effort of the mind and soul to be Russian to which all men of good race may be led...” Well, that hadn't worked all that well, had it? And then this: “As we cannot conceive of the limbs of the body choosing their animating principle from among them, so will the government of a nation that is alive to its national destiny never be abandoned to the fickle dictates of ochlocracy or the humiliation of foreign imposition. Indeed, in a nation that has achieved a true awareness of its nature, it becomes impossible to speak of a difference between the people and government in that the body of the nation brings forth the head that rules it in the samer manner that the animating principle of living tissue brings forth the brain that governs the body in its embryonic stage. And as the brain cannnot be conceived of separated from the body, so may the governors of the people not be considered in separation, but only in organic connection with the people whose true will the embody.” Hot damn, it was a miracle they allowed that to be printed.

The general gestured at the book. “Mnajor, I need you to study this under two aspects. First, you are to prepare a brief introduction, a condensed version of the theory that I can circulate. Not everyone has the time to do that much reading. Then, I will want an estimate of the effect implementing such a programme would have on Russia's military resources. And don't pull your punches! If they can outlast us, I want to know.”

Seeckt saluted. He could be trusted with that kind of job, von der Goltz thought. A good head on those shoulders, a brain for logistics and planning. But damned, why did fate have to be so cruel? Emperor Wilhelm was exactly the person to appreciate the scope of this work. And Rathenau... the general paused. Then he picked up the second of the volumes his men had acquired and placed it in a heavy manila envelope. Rathenau might have valuable insight on this, too.

[Detlef]

Originally Posted by carlton_bach

I haven't looked into the details, but going on the assumption that the possdibility existed, that the political pressure would be the same, that Germany at this time has more investment capital at its disposal and that Albert wants a home port for the German China squadron (which New Guinea is unsuited for), I figured an annexation would happen. Since Qingdao existed IOTL, it was mostly a matter of going with what worked. (It's proven the Germans can grab Qingdao. it's not proven they could get any other Chinese port).

I thought the (dedicated) China squadron consisted of a some gunboats (SMS Iltis, Luchs, Tiger and Jaguar in OTL 1914)?
The cruisers were part of the East Asia squadron? Visiting ports in countries as far away as Chile.

Grabbing Qingdao makes sense seen from their 1900 perspective. Entrance to China and all that. So spending some money to build a decent harbor there makes sense too. Turning it into a model colony by spending huge amounts of money makes less sense though. I don´t think Albert or Wilhelm III would do that here?

And using it as the main German naval base in Asia only makes sense if you can guarantee that no probable future opponent has the means to attack it from the land-side. Because in that case the naval base - like in OTL - will be lost pretty fast unless you spent even more money to fortify the land-side too.

Given the friendly relations with Britain and Japan the only likely opponents in a future war would be Russia and / or France. With maybe the USA as a distant third just to mention them too (given that staffs are likely to prepare war plans for everything ).

Japanese-Russian peace treaty in this TL:

The peace treaty had been good for the Japanese. Even after they had agreed to factor the full book value of the Manchurian Railroad Company and Korean Company into the war indemnity, Russia would pay heavily. Giving up Port Arthur also meant the end to any hope of dominating the Western Pacific. Vladivostok was not really suitable. Of course, the treaty also called for the withdrawal of all line-of-battle ships from the port for a period of ten years.

So for now the Russians are out. And if both Britain and Japan stay friendly German ships can probably use their ports to coal in a future war even if both nations stay neutral.

In a war against France or the USA Qingdao isn´t really the best location so why choose it?
Large map Pacific Ocean 1910

A naval base in the Caroline islands (Yap islands, Truk lagoon) or even Rabaul would make much more sense in a war against the French or Americans?
To protect the colonies and initiate cruiser warfare? It would be both more central and closer?

And such an island base probably could hold out longer than Qingdao in case relations with Japan or Britain take a turn for the worse at some point in the future? Mind you, I´m not predicting it. I´m simply saying that someone not involved in the OTL prestige project probably would keep that in mind before deciding on a location.

The "upward of $100 million in 1914 dollars" ($1 back then roughly 4.2 Mark) spent in Qingdao could be used to:
a) build a decent port and town in Qingdao and
b) build decent secondary naval bases in German Cameroon (Douala), German East Africa (Daressalam) and one in the Caroline islands.
while still spending less than Marks 400+ million.
BlondieBC had some numbers here.

[carlton_bach]

Originally Posted by Detlef

I thought the (dedicated) China squadron consisted of a some gunboats (SMS Iltis, Luchs, Tiger and Jaguar in OTL 1914)?
The cruisers were part of the East Asia squadron? Visiting ports in countries as far away as Chile.

Grabbing Qingdao makes sense seen from their 1900 perspective. Entrance to China and all that. So spending some money to build a decent harbor there makes sense too. Turning it into a model colony by spending huge amounts of money makes less sense though. I don´t think Albert or Wilhelm III would do that here?

That is the main part I envision happening: Germany has great expectations of China and wants to turn Qingdao into its Hongkong. That meant considerable expenditure. The difference with the African colonies is stark mainly because the African possessions were meant to pay for themselves whereas Qingdao was seen as an investment into a hugely profitable future.

It is also the base for the entire German naval presence in the Pacific, bar a gunboat in New Guinea. That is in part an outdated plan - going back to the time when fighting France and Russia in the colonies was thought feasible - but mostly a matter of economics. It is the healthiest place the Germans have and they are going to build a real port anyway (what trade is there in Rabaul?).

Now, I haven't invested the research to figure out exactly what would or would not have been built because I am really screwed for time and half my TL consists of wild guesses at what could have been the case. But in general terms my assumption is that

- More money was spent on Qingdao than on Daressalam, Duala, or Rabaul, and the port facilities are a major part of that (Hamburg-style, with rail links).

- There are also going to be defenses, but nothing as extensive as IOTL.

- Funds from the Boxer indemnity went into developing it - a nice, effectively costless gesture towards the Chinese government

- They did not spend 400 million on it. It's still a white elephant, but not that big.

And using it as the main German naval base in Asia only makes sense if you can guarantee that no probable future opponent has the means to attack it from the land-side. Because in that case the naval base - like in OTL - will be lost pretty fast unless you spent even more money to fortify the land-side too.

Given the friendly relations with Britain and Japan the only likely opponents in a future war would be Russia and / or France. With maybe the USA as a distant third just to mention them too (given that staffs are likely to prepare war plans for everything ).

The assumed opponent was France and Russia, though Japan was also considered. The improvement in relations to the point of excluding that is fairly recent.

Another thing that would have mattered is that ITTL Germany is invested in China policy - open door and all that - as a way of safeguarding its economic interests and as a model for the Ottoman empire.

[carlton_bach]

15 June 1906, Warsaw

“We're screwed.” Dzerzhinski's face was as impassive as ever, but the tone of voice told General Pilsudski that there was powerful emotion behind the words. The security chief pointed around the map. “You know you can probably hold off the Russians for a few days, a few weeks even, at your fieldworks. They aren't going to get into Warsaw easily. But they're not planning to, I think. At least from what you're saying, they haven't been trying very hard.”

Pilsudski nodded. The Russian assaults on their positions had seemed desultory. They inflicted painful losses, but nothing in comparison to what the army facing themm would have been capable of – and had done at Lublin.

“I think they are going for a Parisian solution.”, Dzerzhinski continued, tracing the route from Ivangorod west. “The only other real garrison we have left is Lodz. Everywhere else, real defense is impossible. I suspect that they know.”

“How?” Pilsudski looked worried.

“Intelligence work, reading the papers, doing the maths. International attention is the downside of international sympathy. The Russians can buy the Berliner Illustrierte just as well as we can. Now, assuming they know this they are also aware that there will not be much resistance if the Army of the Narev moves west...”, he drew a rough line along the German border, “to secure the Vistula and Warta. They have been massing their cavalry on the northern front. Of course, most of it is to strike Germany, but if they draw our forces south and east, that will only help them. And they'll have us in the bag.”

The general grunted in assent. He had thought about that himself, of course, but his school friend had a way of drawing a picture with words – especially a frightening one. Two railway lines still connected Warsaw to Germany – those, and the Vistula. They would havve to make a greater effoprt to secure these links. Even if Dzerzhinski was right about the attack on Germany, the Germanmy would have to get to them somewhowq. The stopping power of a good defense had been amplky demonstrated over the past months, and Pilsudski felt sure the Russians could be just as effective at holding back the kaiser's men while they butchered the rebels at leisure. He mentally traced the advance of the northern Russian army and the layout of his defenses. They would not hold any land north of the Bug, and the line to Soldau was up there. As of now, they were still running trains, but it was a risk every time. The line to Thorn, on the other hand, looked viable.

Dzerzhinski pointed to a junction south of the line, on the route to Lodz. “There”, he said. “Skierniewicze. That's where the Russians are trying to cut our jugular.”

Pilsudski looked at the spot. He had read the bare-bones telegraphic reports from the troops defending it. The Amazing Rabinovicz and his Fighting Jews; it had stopped being a joke long ago. “We'll have to send more troops.” he decided. “At least cavalry, to stop them from being outflanked. And troop trains to patrol the line. We have to hold the rails to Thorn.”

[Faeelin]

Surely he means Torun? :P

[carlton_bach]

16 June 1906, Charite, Berlin

The office of a hospital doctor, even one as lavishly appointed as that Professor König used, was not well suited to the presence of courtiers. Major von Liebenau of the Guards Uhlans stood sheepishly, holding the sabre of His Highness in his right hand while steadying his own with his left, trying hrd not to snag more furniture. Yet notwithstanding the cramped quarters and poor hospitality, the Crown Prince was the soul of courtesy, complimenting the professor on his progress and radiating genuine concern mixed with the palpable relief of knowing his brother in capable hands.

“No, you did absolutely right, Professor König.”, he said. “I am grateful for your good judgement in this matter. My brother is a highly intelligent and sensitive soul, and in his state must be protected from excessive emotional stress. I am sure Mrs von Reventlow will understand. She cannot see him for his own good, after all.”

The professor nodded. Dark rings under his eyes and deep worry lines creasing his forehead betrayed the strain his task was putting him under. The emperor's recovery was slow and fitful, and he spent much of his days in a morphine-induced daze. They had considered reducing his dosage, but the pain that returned proved too much. Before anything could be achieved in this matter, they would have to beat the infection. That was proving much more difficult than anticipated. And the continual disturbances did not help.

“You Highness, you are too kind.”, he answered. “I have to admit I was gravely concerned that i might be overstepping my authority, but...”

Eitel Friedrich raised his hands with a gentle smile. “Professor, there is no limit of authority you could overstep. Today, you are the most important man in Germany. The life of His Majesty is in your hands, and your entire being must be dedicated to preserving it. Please rest assured, should anyone seek to interfere with the discharge of your duties, I will take it greatly amiss.”

The promise hung in the air momentarily. Eitel friedrich nodded to his adjutant. “In fact, I believe it would be wise to leave a member of the life guard's officer corps in attendance to impress that fact on those who come calling. Could you spare a small room? Only a chair and a desk.”

“Of course.” The professor was overjoyed at the suggestion. Hospital staff were not always best suited to the task of guiding the curious or well-meaning off the premises, and the guards grenadier detail on the ground floor was useless with anyone of higher rank. “I will see to it directly.”

“You understand, professor:” The crown prince looked the physician in the eye, “my brother is more fragile than he himself will admit. A dutiful man in the best tradition of Prussia. I cannot allow hium to be worked to death in so vulnerable a state. Please, professor! Help me guard him. Nurse him back to full health. Relieve his pain and let him rest”

Professor König felt a surge of emotion well up. “Your Highness,” he promised, “you may rely on me.”

[Obfuscated]

Ah. Eitel does his name full honor, oversteps his bounds and earns a full pratfall - possibly public - once Wilhelm recovers enough to get answers to questions like "Where is my girllfriend ?" and "What the hell is happening ?" or "Why the hell can't I get a newspaper ?"

[carlton_bach]

16 June 1906, Danzig

“You know, if they do charge this to my account I might as well hang myself. Wouldn't be able to afford the bullet.” General August von Mackensen, freshly appointed deputy commander of XVII Corps and already well engaged in the process of kicking certain bureaucratic behinds, did not seem unduly worried. The order from Berlin had clearly stated that the unscheduled summer maneuvers were to be budget neutral, which meant that as far as the government was concerned, anything spent now would have to be saved in autumn. Perhaps they envisioned cutting corners in the Kaisermanöver. The shockingly large bill for calling up reservists by telegram – and issuing rail passes – certainly had not been factored in properly. With General von Braunschweig on an extended journey to the Mediterranean, it landed on Mackensen's desk. But then, everything did. It was what a deputy commander was for.

Major Thomamüller quietly shook his head. The expense was horrendous. Never before in his long service as commissariat officer had he seen anyone spend with such reckless abandon: issues of new equipment, five days' rations, rail passes for the reservists to join their units in their assembly areas, transport for ridiculous amounts of fodder and gear. It was gratifying to the elderly gentleman that it had worked, of course. Not everyone could have pulled it off. But the wastefulness of it all went against his Prussian grain. Now these thousands of men would spend a few days – the orders were still unclear how many – out in the summer meadows playing soldier, and thenn they would all go home, having lost or broken enough equipment to make him cry, and someone would need to find hundreds of thousands of marks to pay for all of it. What was the point?

“Very well, Major.” Mackensen turned to face his subordinate. He had come to respect his skills in the past week. “I will have to get out there with my men to direct the maneuvers in a few days, and I trust the management of supplies will be in good hands. No scrimping, though. What we need, we need.”

Thomamüller saluted. He'd magic up whatever the general requested somehow. It was what a Corps staff did, after all. In the street opposite the red-brick headquarters building, two officers in white helmets shepherded a bevy of reserve NCOs to the train station. Things were shaping up.

[carlton_bach]

Originally Posted by Obfuscated

Ah. Eitel does his name full honor, oversteps his bounds and earns a full pratfall - possibly public - once Wilhelm recovers enough to get answers to questions like "Where is my girllfriend ?" and "What the hell is happening ?" or "Why the hell can't I get a newspaper ?"

He has something more sinister in mind than babying his brother, actually. Not that it will work. Compared to him, Deroulede's a master politician.

[The Blue-Eyed Infidel]

Speaking of Eitel Friedrich, is he now married to Sophia Charlotte of Oldenburg as per OTL? If so, is the marriage any happier?

TB-EI

[Barbarossa Rotbart]

A General von Braunschweig? Is this an original character?

I believe that Eitel Friedrich wants to stay crown prince.