That Wacky Redhead

[unclepatrick]

1 Did Robert H Justman produce the series Search in 1972 before Rock Around the Clock?

2 Would he produce the 1977 Man from Atlantis Pilot or is he too involved with Rock Around the Clock?

[e of pi]

Originally Posted by e_wraith

Olympics fever! Actually, I truly have no idea if how the Olympics were viewed and covered in this time period. I guess tape delays were less of an issue with no Internet, at least.

It's not then-year Olympics that factor into his decision, I think. But saying any more would be telling.

I'd be very interested to know how the space shuttle program came out, I know you mentioned smaller shuttles... As I recall you gave the HL-20 or one of the other lifting body test articles as an example. I guess that means no Max Faget straight wing shuttle, fully reusable or not. Still, probably better off than what we got, as amazing a piece of technology it was.

Essentially, what the shuttle turns out as ITTL is a slightly larger HL-20-style crew/cargo vehicle lifted on expendable boosters (Saturn 1B to start). No large payload bay--it's not a payload launcher, and for servicing missions it can meet the bird in need of service on-orbit. Shuttle will be serving Skylab-class stations, launched by some of the second purchase of Saturn Vs.

Okay, too much more I could say, but enough for now. (Canada keeping a carrier is a very interesting thing, too, since it is something that might very well have impacted my personal career much later on. Even though I am not Canadian.)

Sounds like you have a Canadian Power-shaped hole in your life. TheMann did a fabulous coverage of a TL in which Canada keeps carrier capability via buying the Eagle. Brainbin included that note partly as a reference to that TL, but he's not a military history guy, so I'm not really expecting to hear more, especially when we'd both agree that TheMann did it best already.

[Nivek]

Did You have some hate to M*A*S*H? I've never seen that show before but is pretty well revered and fondly rememberd for some US Citizen i've meet....

An Galaxy Quest Esque Movie will happen here some how?

How The Anime(Japananimation as originaly called in USA) will come here to the americas? In OTL was Carl Mackere work with Macross/Tatsunoko(after Losing the chance with Gundam)

[e of pi]

Originally Posted by Nivek

Did You have some hate to M*A*S*H? I've never seen that show before but is pretty well revered and fondly rememberd for some US Citizen i've meet....

I like the show too, but it was a sequel to a movie--a movie which ITTL came out at a very bad time to be an allegory for the Vietnam War. Unlike OTL, the war had ended by the time MASH came out in theaters, so people didn't find relief through humor, they wanted to forget it had been happening. TV shows don't get made from movies that bomb. Sad, but true.

An Galaxy Quest Esque Movie will happen here some how?

I certainly hope so! Maybe Brainbin won't have one appear before the end of the TL (he's planning on covering up to 1986), but as for one appearing later...never give up, never surrender!

How The Anime(Japananimation as originaly called in USA) will come here to the americas? In OTL was Carl Mackere work with Macross/Tatsunoko(after Losing the chance with Gundam)

Now this I'm interested to hear Brainbin answer.

[e_wraith]

Originally Posted by e of pi

It's not then-year Olympics that factor into his decision, I think. But saying any more would be telling.

Awww... That's just cruel! Especially since I am not used to waiting! I suppose I will have to learn to be patient. But where's the fun in that?

Originally Posted by e of pi

Essentially, what the shuttle turns out as ITTL is a slightly larger HL-20-style crew/cargo vehicle lifted on expendable boosters (Saturn 1B to start). No large payload bay--it's not a payload launcher, and for servicing missions it can meet the bird in need of service on-orbit. Shuttle will be serving Skylab-class stations, launched by some of the second purchase of Saturn Vs.

Yes, this actually makes sense. Far more so than combining a huge payload bay with crew carrying and no remote capability. And Skylab class stations are no slouch. Plus, dock a few Skylab class modules together and you have something really exciting. Back on track with the von Braun roadmap!

Originally Posted by e of pi

Sounds like you have a Canadian Power-shaped hole in your life.

Ha, yes indeed, I actually found that TL through that update, it was interesting as well.

[e_wraith]

Originally Posted by Nivek

How The Anime(Japananimation as originaly called in USA) will come here to the americas? In OTL was Carl Mackere work with Macross/Tatsunoko(after Losing the chance with Gundam)

Now this is an interesting point... With the success of science fiction ITTL, maybe North America can get original MS Gundam before the 2000s? Given that O'Neill space colonies are probably stick around in the Western consciousness far longer due to the path of the space program, I don't think it is impossible at all. Tomino was right to keep Macek away from it, though. Not that I had anything against the Robotech mish mash of shows, I loved it as a kid.

[phx1138]

Originally Posted by The Professor

What??!!! Seriously? The Hoff?

Could I make that up? Apparently, he's recorded a song that's considered R&R, so he could make it.

Originally Posted by The Blue-Eyed Infidel

I'm not in the industry (or even anywhere close) but my understanding is that advertisers have concluded that older viewers have locked in their preferences, so advertising targeted at them is less effective.

Not sure it's entirely correct, but I can see why they might think that.

That's my understanding, too. I can see how a lifetime influence beats a high-cash clientele, but surely there are advertisers wanting that target demo. It is why golf gets air. It also helped "West Wing", I understand: they skew rich, & golf, older.

Originally Posted by e_wraith

All ruined by this timeline of yours!

Aww... "Feels like the first time..." "Go all they way..."

Originally Posted by e_wraith

I would also say there's still a chance for the A-Team, all you need is a botched up military situation, say like rescuing hostages in Iran

It wouldn't even need to be based on a real event, actually. Think "The Unit".

[e of pi]

Originally Posted by e_wraith

Awww... That's just cruel! Especially since I am not used to waiting! I suppose I will have to learn to be patient. But where's the fun in that?

I know he's aiming to have it done before the Olympics are over--though I can't say why. I know, though, because at the moment I'm part of the problem, not the solution--he's just finished a draft of a really great 5000 word guest post for Eyes, and he's been working away on that in some of the time that would normally be the next update of TWR.

Yes, this actually makes sense. Far more so than combining a huge payload bay with crew carrying and no remote capability. And Skylab class stations are no slouch. Plus, dock a few Skylab class modules together and you have something really exciting. Back on track with the von Braun roadmap!

Not to pimp my own stuff, but if you're interested in space, perhaps you'd enjoy Eyes Turned Skywards, a TL about an alternate post-Apollo era that I've been working on with truth is life, and which Brainbin helped out with a bit in Part I? We're going to be coming off haitus and full steam ahead into the 80s here in the next few weeks, so now's a great time to catch up! (Note how elegantly I dodged answering the question about the future of space in TWR, which I can't answer about due to the non-disclosure agreement truth and I signed in blood when we agreed to help Brainbin out with space details if he let us spend NASA's double-OTL budget. Plus he provided some culture updates for Eyes, so it was very win-win-win.)

[The Blue-Eyed Infidel]

Originally Posted by phx1138

That's my understanding, too. I can see how a lifetime influence beats a high-cash clientele, but surely there are advertisers wanting that target demo. It is why golf gets air. It also helped "West Wing", I understand: they skew rich, & golf, older.

But if you look at the ads broadcast during golf games, and ignore the ads for golf equipment, vacations, etc., you will notice (or at least I did) that an overwhelming percentage of the remainder are for products that are marketed almost exclusively to that older demographic and not for the mass market; i.e. you don't see ads for Tide, Crest, Coca-Cola, etc.

TB-EI

[Caitlin Carmichael]

The Boomers complain that radio stations have abandoned 1950s and '60s music for 1970s and '80s music but like the previous generation (Big Band/"Standards"), they aged out of desirable demographics. I'm sure that the adults who moaned in 1980 about advertisers preferring the younger "Rock" listeners to Ella Fitzgerald and Frank Sinatra, would be amused that 32 years later those "Rock" listeners of 1980 are making the same cry of anguish about the disappearance of their music from mainstream airwaves.

[e_wraith]

Originally Posted by e of pi

Not to pimp my own stuff, but if you're interested in space, perhaps you'd enjoy Eyes Turned Skywards, a TL about an alternate post-Apollo era that I've been working on with truth is life, and which Brainbin helped out with a bit in Part I? We're going to be coming off haitus and full steam ahead into the 80s here in the next few weeks, so now's a great time to catch up!

Elegant indeed. And pimp away, there's nothing better than shameless self promotion! Alas, it is all for naught, since I have had your timeline open in another window just waiting until I caught up with this one anyway. In fact, that's the type of timeline I actually came here to read in the first place! How did I wind up on Brainbin's? No idea really. Not complaining at all, trust me! But aerospace pays the bills after all, so I am mandated by law to have an interest.

I wonder, would this continued interest in the space program lead to more people entering technology fields, perhaps speeding up adoption of the personal computer? We probably won't be seeing Shatner do his Commodore VIC-20 commercials, though, since he is a bigger star and Jack Tramiel is a budget sort of guy. Sadness.

[Orville_third]

Originally Posted by e_wraith

Elegant indeed. And pimp away, there's nothing better than shameless self promotion! Alas, it is all for naught, since I have had your timeline open in another window just waiting until I caught up with this one anyway. In fact, that's the type of timeline I actually came here to read in the first place! How did I wind up on Brainbin's? No idea really. Not complaining at all, trust me! But aerospace pays the bills after all, so I am mandated by law to have an interest.

I wonder, would this continued interest in the space program lead to more people entering technology fields, perhaps speeding up adoption of the personal computer? We probably won't be seeing Shatner do his Commodore VIC-20 commercials, though, since he is a bigger star and Jack Tramiel is a budget sort of guy. Sadness.

Will we see Tom Baker and Lalla Ward plugging Prime Computers?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iJeu3LCo-6A

[e of pi]

Originally Posted by e_wraith

Elegant indeed. And pimp away, there's nothing better than shameless self promotion! Alas, it is all for naught, since I have had your timeline open in another window just waiting until I caught up with this one anyway. In fact, that's the type of timeline I actually came here to read in the first place!

I'm glad to hear you're looking forward to it, and I hope you'll find it as enjoyable once you're caught up.

But aerospace pays the bills after all, so I am mandated by law to have an interest.

In what capacity does it pay the bills, if it's not too nosy?

I wonder, would this continued interest in the space program lead to more people entering technology fields, perhaps speeding up adoption of the personal computer?

I figure that it would lead to a continuing greater interest in technical fields, especially with Moonshot Lunacy. However, the effects of that might not appear until the mid-to-late 80s (say that it's people who were in their childhood or teenage years in '69-'72 and you'll start to see them graduating from colleges in 1979ish). Given that, the effects may not really be all that visible within the period Brainbin intends to cover.

[NCW8]

Originally Posted by NCW8

Now that is interesting.

Presumably Eileen Atkins (one of the originators of Behind the Green Baize Door) will be available to appear in the show. IOTL she was appearing on stage as Queen Victoria (which coincidentally was the part Pauline Collins played in her second appearance on Dr Who).

So Pauline Collins keeps the role of Dawn on The Liver Birds. That is going to have a major affect on the career of Nerys Hughs as it was her first major role, as well as being the one she is best remembered for. It's also going to have a large affect on the Liver Birds - it'll be like Dr Who without Sarah Jane Smith . Hopefully Mollie Sugden will be cast to play Dawn's mother (instead of Sandra's). Mrs Hutchinson was a great role for her - in some ways better than Mrs Slocombe - and in later seasons the dialogs between her and Carol's mother were often the high-point of an episode (IMHO, of course).

It's also going to have an affect on Pauline Collins' carreer. She obviously won't star in Thomas & Sarah (a spin-off of Upstairs, Downstairs), in fact this spin-off probably won't even exist. Also without her connection, her husband, John Alderton, won't join the cast of Behind the Green Baize Door. Since neither of them will have worked for LWT, they probably won't be chosen to star in the sitcom No, Honestly.

Cheers,
Nigel.

[The Professor]

Originally Posted by NCW8

Presumably Eileen Atkins (one of the originators of Behind the Green Baize Door) will be available to appear in the show. IOTL she was appearing on stage as Queen Victoria (which coincidentally was the part Pauline Collins played in her second appearance on Dr Who).

So Pauline Collins keeps the role of Dawn on The Liver Birds. That is going to have a major affect on the career of Nerys Hughs as it was her first major role, as well as being the one she is best remembered for. It's also going to have a large affect on the Liver Birds - it'll be like Dr Who without Sarah Jane Smith . Hopefully Mollie Sugden will be cast to play Dawn's mother (instead of Sandra's). Mrs Hutchinson was a great role for her - in some ways better than Mrs Slocombe - and in later seasons the dialogs between her and Carol's mother were often the high-point of an episode (IMHO, of course).

It's also going to have an affect on Pauline Collins' carreer. She obviously won't star in Thomas & Sarah (a spin-off of Upstairs, Downstairs), in fact this spin-off probably won't even exist. Also without her connection, her husband, John Alderton, won't join the cast of Behind the Green Baize Door. Since neither of them will have worked for LWT, they probably won't be chosen to star in the sitcom No, Honestly.

Cheers,
Nigel.

And also likely mean Collins and Alderton don't star in Forever Green.
Though hopefully for my ATL self (assuming I still exist!) Daisy Bates shall remain...

[e_wraith]

Originally Posted by e of pi

In what capacity does it pay the bills, if it's not too nosy?

I've worked in the aerospace field for most of my career (such as it is), first doing logistics for several specific aircraft systems, then working on computer support systems for many, many aircraft systems, and now program management. It is not the field my academic career was preparing me for (it should be a public service message, don't do what wraith did in finding your career!), as I am not an aerospace engineer, but when I got the chance to get into this field I jumped at it due to a lifelong interest.

Speaking of public service messages... I hope Schoolhouse Rock is still on track. I still have Conjunction Junction stuck in my head!

Originally Posted by Orville_third

Will we see Tom Baker and Lalla Ward plugging Prime Computers?

Indeed, Bill Cosby also did ads for the TI 99 circa 1980 or so. The early 80s had no end of computer systems for idling 70s stars to plug. Though again, perhaps that does not happen here as well. I wouldn't say that Bill Cosby was in the same situation as William Shatner was, IOTL, though, and I am sure TI was more willing to spend money on advertising than Commodore for what little good it did in the long run.

[phx1138]

Originally Posted by The Blue-Eyed Infidel

But if you look at the ads broadcast during golf games, and ignore the ads for golf equipment, vacations, etc., you will notice (or at least I did) that an overwhelming percentage of the remainder are for products that are marketed almost exclusively to that older demographic and not for the mass market; i.e. you don't see ads for Tide, Crest, Coca-Cola, etc.

Exactly. The golf broadcasts do target that, & that's why they stay on, despite low numbers. Which is what I was getting at: if the networks can carry a low-rated program with desirable (to some advertisers) demos, why not a high-rated one? And why don't the advertisers wanting that demo ask for it?

[e of pi]

Originally Posted by e_wraith

I've worked in the aerospace field for most of my career (such as it is), first doing logistics for several specific aircraft systems, then working on computer support systems for many, many aircraft systems, and now program management. It is not the field my academic career was preparing me for (it should be a public service message, don't do what wraith did in finding your career!), as I am not an aerospace engineer, but when I got the chance to get into this field I jumped at it due to a lifelong interest.

Sheesh. Forget reading Eyes, sounds like you should be writing it. Who did/do you work for? I'm in QC at GE at the moment, though my co-op rotation is up at the end of next week and it's back to the life of a poor college student for another year.

[e_wraith]

Originally Posted by e of pi

Sheesh. Forget reading Eyes, sounds like you should be writing it. Who did/do you work for?

Ah, no, not at all, I really appreciate the work you and others have done there. And I am no expert, it's only been 7 years of career for me and only 6 with my current employer. Plus I have been mostly on the computer sytems side, though in systems design and acquisition. I work on a joint US government program that supports aviation across several agencies, though my core agency is the one that likes to put planes on boats. Right now I am finishing off my Systems Engineering masters, and may move a bit more into the systems integration side. Which is... Interesting, to say the least.

Originally Posted by e of pi

I'm in QC at GE at the moment, though my co-op rotation is up at the end of next week and it's back to the life of a poor college student for another year.

Enjoy that poor college student life, I miss it. I am less poor now but have much less time to enjoy that fact! A GE co-op is awesome, I worked that other year for Siemens AG and they were obsessed with emulating GE at the time. Is GE your ultimate target for post-graduation employment?

It's really interesting to see so many people younger than myself interested in this time period (Obviously Brainbin included!). Personally thanks to watching Columbo I have had a keen interest in TV shows from the 60s and 70s, seeing what is different with today's programs. In style, pacing, technology... And even (or especially) outlook, I guess.

[e of pi]

Originally Posted by e_wraith

Enjoy that poor college student life, I miss it. I am less poor now but have much less time to enjoy that fact! A GE co-op is awesome, I worked that other year for Siemens AG and they were obsessed with emulating GE at the time. Is GE your ultimate target for post-graduation employment?

I've thought about it, it's a great company and I have several friends from UD who've gone on to work there after their co-op terms. The facility I'm at is right across the fence from CVG, and it's fun to spend lunch breaks watching the action and think that I'm part of making that all happen. On the other hand, I've really always dreamed of working in spaceflight, so if I was to get a call from SpaceX or NASA...I've been really lucky to have the chances I'm getting at GE, but there's something about doing what you dreamed of as a kid, you know?

EDIT: But this is getting a bit off-topic....