AHC: The Roman Republic invents rap

[MAlexMatt]

Originally Posted by Wolfpaw

Wow. The ignorance in this post is just astounding.

Beethoven isn't real music; it's just scraping cat guts. Folk music isn't real music, it's just hick shtick.

Ignorance or not, he has a point: The musical antecedents of rap and hip-hop were about a millennium and a half away at the point where Rome dominated the Mediterranean. Having Rome invent rap would be like having ancient China invent trance music.

[Ganesha]

Originally Posted by MAlexMatt

Ignorance or not, he has a point: The musical antecedents of rap and hip-hop were about a millennium and a half away at the point where Rome dominated the Mediterranean. Having Rome invent rap would be like having ancient China invent trance music.

Did you read the rest of the thread? Not only is it possible, it's even plausible that Rome might invent rap music or have something very similar.

Cheers,
Ganesha

[MAlexMatt]

Originally Posted by Ganesha

Did you read the rest of the thread? Not only is it possible, it's even plausible that Rome might invent rap music or have something very similar.

Cheers,
Ganesha

'Poetry and beats' isn't quite what rap is. Human beings have been rhythmically performing poetry over an accompanying beat since pre-historic times. It's probably not even something unique to homo sapiens.

You need the development of things like modern ideas of meter and harmonic tuning, you need a concept of vocal arrangement that brooks a particular way of writing poetry that lines up with these ideas, etc etc.

You can DO this AHC if you define rap loosely enough, but if you really do so then it's not alternate history but something the Romans probably already had.

[carlton_bach]

A "something like rap" should be doable. Roman poetry scanned, it did not rhyme (end rhyming is probably a Latin invention, but not a classical-age one). So rhythm would be very important. In most of the texts we have, this goes along with a love for elaborated code and antiquated vocabulary, but certainly not in all. Roman prose had a very influential movement in favour of simplicity, and Roman certainly were inventively foul-mouthed. And a fair number of poets delighted in describing the reality of life in the streets, some delighting in their rakish bad boy image. I can't quite think of anyone where the ingredients come together right - Caesar is too straight-laced and doesn't rhyme, Juvenal is too square, Martialis too cutesy, Ovidius too upper-crust and Petronius too sex-obsessed. But we get the ingredients, and you can certainly see something happening in lines like:

Bill, please!

Wine, 1 as, bread 1 as, food 2 asses

Fine

Girl, 8 asses

Fine, too

Fodder for mule, 2 asses

That mule's gonna ruin me,

It's a grave inscription, CIL 9:2689. File it under "things Romans find funny".

[Stolengood]

Ego quondam a mulier similes;
Dedit me multo delectatio, et fecit ostendere.
Adhuc, illa vastatorum me; erat nimis genus,
Nam et ego remansi imparatum te.

[Awilla the Hun]

This is now my favourite thread... ever, really. I can see a more poetically minded Clodius Pulcher using it in the decline of the Roman Republic to rally the mob to his side and strike down his opponents. An oratorical duel between himself and Cicero (replying in the same style) could have resulted, with hilarious consequences.

[Sicarius]

This is my favorite AHC I've ever seen.

EDIT: Content

mehercle!
(By Hercules!)
Rebecca, ecce! tantae clunes isti sunt!
(Rebecca, behold! Such large buttocks she has!)

amica esse videtur istorum hominum rhythmicorum.
(She appears to be a girlfriend of one of those rhythmic-oration people.)
sed, ut scis,
(But, as you know)
quis homines huiusmodi intellegere potest?
(Who can understand persons of this sort?)
colloquuntur equidem cum ista eo tantum, quod scortum perfectum esse videtur.
(Verily, they converse with her for this reason only, namely, that she appears to be a complete whore.)
clunes, aio, maiores esse!
(Her buttocks, I say, are rather large!)
nec possum credere quam rotondae sint.
(Nor am I able to believe how round they are.)
en! quam exstant! nonne piget te earum?
(Lo! How they stand forth! Do they not disgust you?)
ecce mulier Aethiops!
(Behold the black woman!)

magnae clunes mihi placent, nec possum de hac re mentiri.
(Large buttocks are pleasing to me, nor am I able to lie concerning this matter.)
quis enim, consortes mei, non fateatur,
(For who, colleagues, would not admit,)
cum puella incedit minore medio corpore
(Whenever a girl comes by with a rather small middle part of the body)
sub quo manifestus globus, inflammare animos
(Beneath which is an obvious spherical mass, that it inflames the spirits)
virtute praestare ut velitis, notantes bracas eius
(So that you want to be conspicuous for manly virtue, noticing her breeches)
clunibus profunde fartas esse
(Have been deeply stuffed with buttock?)
a! captus sum, nec desinere intueri possum.
(Alas! I am captured, nor am I able to desist from gazing.)
o dominola mea, volo tecum congredi
(My dear lady, I want to come together with you)
pingereque picturam tui.
(And make a picture of you.)
familiares mei me monebant
(My companions were trying to warn me)
sed clunes istae libidinem in me concitant.
(But those buttocks of yours arouse lust in me.)
o! cutis rugosa glabraque!
(O skin wrinkled and smooth!)
dixistine te in meum vehiculum intrare velle?
(Did you say you wish to enter my vehicle?)
in arbitrio tuo totus veni
(I am entirely at your disposal)
quia non es mediocris adsecula.
(Because you are not an average hanger-on.)
vidi illam saltantem.
(I have seen her dancing.)
obliviscere igitur blanditiarum!
(Forget, therefore, about blandishments!)
tantus sudor! tantus umor!
(Such sweat! Such moisture!)
vehor quasi in curru quadrigarum!
(I am borne along as if by a four-horse chariot!)
taedet me in diurnis legendi
(I am tired of reading in the gazettes)
planas clunes gratiores iudicari.
(That flat buttocks are judged more pleasing.)
rogate quoslibet Aethiopes: responsum erit
(Ask any black men you wish: the answer will be)
se libentius expletiores anteponere.
(Rather that they prefer fuller ones.)
o consortes (quid est?) o consortes (quid est?)
(O colleagues [What is it?] O colleagues [What is it?])
habent amicae vestrae magnas clunes? (certe habent!)
(Do your girlfriends have large buttocks? [They certainly have!])
hortamini igitur ut eas quatiant (ut quatiant!)
(Encourage them therefore to shake them! [To shake them!])
ut quatiant! (ut quatiant!)
(To shake them! [To shake them!)
ut quatiant illas clunes sanas!
(To shake those healthy buttocks!)
domina mea exstat a tergo!
(My mistress stands out behind!)

[Velasco]

So the next AHC...Roman twerk teams? Hmm..

[Marc Pasquin]

Originally Posted by Velasco

So the next AHC...Roman twerk teams? Hmm..

well, I have gangsta morris dancing so, anythings possible.

[MerryPrankster]

Originally Posted by Sicarius

This is my favorite AHC I've ever seen.

You absolutely rule!

[Stolengood]

Sic, ego dixit,
Bibere omnes vino!
Bibere, et tunc ingrediar
Partem omni tempore!

Volo puellae
Et puella amat me,
'iens ut aliquid historia!

Rem quid id est? dixit mea puella.
Dixi ad eam rem faxo suus lapsus!

[Stolengood]

Est mobile,
Quod penna in vento,
mutationes in opere et cogitatione.
Semper dulcis,
pulchellus faciem,
lacrimis in risum, mendax est.

Est mobile,
Quod penna in vento,
mutationes in opere et cogitatione!
et cogitationes!
et cogitationes!

Est semper miser
quem confidit,
qui confidit eius incautos cor!
Tamen nunquam sentit beata
qui non bibit illa sinu amoris!

Est mobile
Quod penna in vento,
mutationes in opere et cogitatione!
et cogitationes!
et cogitationes!

[FDW]

Well this is probably the funniest thread I've seen in a while…

[Abhakhazia]

Think of all the epic rap battles they would have had......

This thread is awesome!

[AtriumCarceris]

Now what we need is somebody to make a beat and rhyme over it with some wicked Latin raps. I'd try it out but my Latin pronunciation is rusty and I'd hate to be wrong about it.

[AtriumCarceris]

I knew I had heard of rap in Latin before and it took forever to track down, but I finally found it here. I just wish it wasn't live so I could hear better. There are other songs there too. Apparently this band also did Latin covers of other more well known Hip Hop songs.

Also main page of the band here.

[Marc Pasquin]

Originally Posted by AtriumCarceris

I knew I had heard of rap in Latin before and it took forever to track down, but I finally found it here. I just wish it wasn't live so I could hear better. There are other songs there too. Apparently this band also did Latin covers of other more well known Hip Hop songs.

If you only casualy listen to the lyrics, you'd easily mistake them for a latino act. Would be interesting to have an act accompanied only by tambourine, drum and flute with a "clamitaticen" making noises accompaniement.

Also, would legionary surplus caligae, tunica and focale be worn with loads of "nitidi" by those performers ?

[De la Tour]

Yes. The old republic MCs actually had their own antiquated 'soulja' culture.

[Marc Pasquin]

Originally Posted by De la Tour

Yes. The old republic MCs actually had their own antiquated 'soulja' culture.

as can be seen here

[PlayerOne]

Originally Posted by Marc Pasquin

as can be seen here

Thread delivers.