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  #81  
Old July 12th, 2012, 01:38 AM
Thomas Jefferson Thomas Jefferson is offline
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Rockefeller Takes Office
The New York Times, front page, January 20, 1977
Rockefeller Calls for Strengthened Drug Laws
The New York Times, front page, March 2, 1977
Shamir Takes Power in Historic Israeli Election
The New York Times, front page, May 17, 1977
Rockefeller Signs New Drug Bill, Marijuana Remains Legal but 15 Year Minimum for Transport Across State Lines
The New York Times, front page, August 3, 1977
Sadat Reopens Diplomatic Relations With Jordan, Possible Precursor to Treaty With Israel
The New York Times, front page, November 19, 1977
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  #82  
Old July 12th, 2012, 03:14 PM
TxCoatl1970 TxCoatl1970 is offline
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Many OTL parallels & nitpicks

I love the overall direction of the TL. James Dean is a positive Ronald Reagan who accomplishes a lot of what JFK & LBJ would have, quicker and cleaner.
I like a lot of the touches of more muscular civil rights legislation/enforcement, far better national energy policy and standing up the Arab oil embargo positively. Also the genesis of NEPA- assessing all those public works projects' environmental effects is and interesting detail to yours truly. The scale you're mentioning of dam and nuclear plant construction's off the chain though. Still awesome ideas.

People forget how active Al-Fatah was in the 1960's, but it ignores the OTL factionalism that made it so difficult for Israel and the West to deal with it, and what many insiders felt was excessive secularism and restraint to their campaign.
Thus PFLP and other offshoots doing what Fatah didn't have the stupidity to greenlight.
FWIW, this may have been disinformation to deflect Western pressure on the PLO to knock it off. YMMV.

Fatah however, was never Al-Qaeda, even when they hijacked airliners in the 1970's. It was political theater. They didn't abuse hostages or do anything really insanely stupid as the various religious extremists (Hizballah, et al.) did later in the 1980's.
What you're proposing is political suicide. Sure, the PLO got money and arms and training from the Soviets, but they depended just as much on Western European goodwill to organize, raise funds, and so forth. Taking potshots at US VIPs would completely flush all that. They'd be outlaws and NOBODY would want that kind of heat to shelter or publically support them.
If Kosygin's in power, I don't think offhand he'd be terribly happy with sponsored liberation movements going that rogue.
You could have an interesting CIA/KGB/Mossad team-up to wipe the PLO off the face of the earth.
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  #83  
Old July 13th, 2012, 03:57 PM
Thomas Jefferson Thomas Jefferson is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TxCoatl1970 View Post
People forget how active Al-Fatah was in the 1960's, but it ignores the OTL factionalism that made it so difficult for Israel and the West to deal with it, and what many insiders felt was excessive secularism and restraint to their campaign.
Thus PFLP and other offshoots doing what Fatah didn't have the stupidity to greenlight.
FWIW, this may have been disinformation to deflect Western pressure on the PLO to knock it off. YMMV.

Fatah however, was never Al-Qaeda, even when they hijacked airliners in the 1970's. It was political theater. They didn't abuse hostages or do anything really insanely stupid as the various religious extremists (Hizballah, et al.) did later in the 1980's.
What you're proposing is political suicide. Sure, the PLO got money and arms and training from the Soviets, but they depended just as much on Western European goodwill to organize, raise funds, and so forth. Taking potshots at US VIPs would completely flush all that. They'd be outlaws and NOBODY would want that kind of heat to shelter or publically support them.
If Kosygin's in power, I don't think offhand he'd be terribly happy with sponsored liberation movements going that rogue.
You could have an interesting CIA/KGB/Mossad team-up to wipe the PLO off the face of the earth.
Fatah is more extremist because Arafat's dead and they're being funded by Syria/Iraq/Egypt (who would be international pariahs if Europe and East Asia weren't reliant on their oil) rather than the Russians, who are moving towards a much more positive relationship with the US under Kosygin. The US isn't pursuing a George W. Bush style policy of regime change because Sanford and Rockefeller are afraid of getting into a quagmire like the Russians had in Cuba and the US almost had in Jordan and Vietnam, and the various regimes officially deny supporting the PLO. On the bright side, the PLO has made themselves obnoxious enough to swing Jordanian public opinion in favor of the Hashemite monarchy and peace with Israel.
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  #84  
Old July 13th, 2012, 04:19 PM
Asnys Asnys is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TxCoatl1970 View Post
I like a lot of the touches of more muscular civil rights legislation/enforcement, far better national energy policy and standing up the Arab oil embargo positively. Also the genesis of NEPA- assessing all those public works projects' environmental effects is and interesting detail to yours truly. The scale you're mentioning of dam and nuclear plant construction's off the chain though. Still awesome ideas.
In terms of numbers of nuclear reactors, this is actually pretty similar to what was done IOTL. In fact, given that we haven't seen any numbers other than the one post, it's possible it's actually slower. Late 60s and early 70s is the Great Bandwagon Market, when everyone and their mother was building Gen-II LWRs.

A nuclear sector focused around a National Power Administration will likely be healthier in the long run than OTL's gamut of private reactors. It will hopefully force some standardization, for one thing, as well as lower capital charges. On the other hand, I would worry about accidents and public perception of accidents, with the *NRC part of the same organization that's building the plants.
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Last edited by Asnys; July 13th, 2012 at 04:25 PM..
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  #85  
Old July 13th, 2012, 06:53 PM
Thomas Jefferson Thomas Jefferson is offline
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Originally Posted by Asnys View Post
In terms of numbers of nuclear reactors, this is actually pretty similar to what was done IOTL. In fact, given that we haven't seen any numbers other than the one post, it's possible it's actually slower.
The numbers would be somewhat higher, and all the planned reactors would actually get built thanks to federal spending and an earlier drive to reduce oil dependency.
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  #86  
Old July 13th, 2012, 10:39 PM
Thomas Jefferson Thomas Jefferson is offline
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Sharon Tate Files for Divorce from Roman Polanski
People Magazine, cover story, February 1, 1978
Anita Bryant Wins AIP Gubernatorial Primary, Will Face Askew in General Election
The Miami Herald, front page, April 1, 1978
Is There a Diesel Bubble?
Time Magazine, cover story, June 15, 1978
Rockefeller to Open Negotiations Between Sadat, Shamir at Camp David
The New York Times, front page, September 5, 1978
Democrats Pick Up Seats in Midterms, AIP Resurgent in Statehouses
The New York Times, front page, November 8, 1978
Milk Assassinated; Suspect Had History of Anti-Gay Activity; Succeeded as Mayor by Dianne Feinstein
San Francisco Chronicle, front page, November 27, 1978
Rockefeller Found Dead of Heart Attack; Stock Market Slides, Dole Appeals for Calm
The New York Times, front page, January 29, 1979
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  #87  
Old July 13th, 2012, 10:41 PM
Richter10 Richter10 is offline
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Would Space-based Solar Power have a chance to be developed in this TL?
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  #88  
Old July 13th, 2012, 11:30 PM
Thomas Jefferson Thomas Jefferson is offline
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Originally Posted by Richter10 View Post
Would Space-based Solar Power have a chance to be developed in this TL?
It would have attracted alot of attention in the early 1970s, but interest would have waned as new cars switched over to biodiesel and the price of fuel dropped.
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  #89  
Old July 14th, 2012, 03:59 AM
Thomas Jefferson Thomas Jefferson is offline
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Sadat Signs Peace Treaty With Israel
The New York Times, front page, March 26, 1979
Thatcher Wins Second Term
The New York Times, front page, May 4, 1979
Bear Market Continues as American Diesel Files for Bankruptcy, Carter Industries Expected to Purchase Assets
The Wall Street Journal, page A2, July 16, 1979
Lord Mountbatten Dead in IRA Bombing
The New York Times, front page, August 28, 1979
US Officially in Recession, RomneyCorp CEO Says Fuels Still Growth Market
The New York Times, October 27, 1979
Clinton Announces Presidential Candidacy
Arkansas Democrat Gazette, front page, November 7, 1979
Proxmire Wins Iowa Caucuses
The New York Times, front page, January 25, 1980
Clinton 'Comeback Kid' With New Hampshire Win
The New York Times, front page, March 8, 1980
Bryant Blasts Clinton for Gay Rights Stance, Campaigns With Helms
The Miami Herald, front page, March 14, 1980
Marshal Tito Dead
The New York Times, front page, May 4, 1980
Shah of Iran Dead
The New York Times, front page, July 27, 1980
Clinton Accepts Nomination, Announces Reagan as Running Mate
The New York Times, front page, August 14, 1980
Iraq and Syria Launch Surprise Attack on Iran; Shah Calls for US Aid
The New York Times, front page, September 22, 1980
Clinton Defeats Dole
The New York Times, front page, November 5, 1980
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  #90  
Old July 14th, 2012, 05:03 AM
Lord Grattan Lord Grattan is offline
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Bill Clinton was not eligible to serve POTUS until August 19, 1981, so the "comeback kid" will have to come back another day.

Perhaps Dole defeats Reagan in spite of the weak economy in 1980? Young Bill Clinton can be inaugurated President in 1985 at the age of 38.
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  #91  
Old July 14th, 2012, 06:11 AM
Thunderbolt Thunderbolt is offline
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If you read the first post of this thread correctly, the age minimum has been lowered to 25. So, however implausible it may be, Clinton is eligible in 1980.

Having your running mate be more than twice your age (69 v 34) would be somewhat of a distracting issue though.
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  #92  
Old July 14th, 2012, 01:31 PM
Lord Grattan Lord Grattan is offline
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Originally Posted by Thunderbolt View Post
If you read the first post of this thread correctly, the age minimum has been lowered to 25. So, however implausible it may be, Clinton is eligible in 1980.

Having your running mate be more than twice your age (69 v 34) would be somewhat of a distracting issue though.
Yes, I did miss that.
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  #93  
Old July 14th, 2012, 03:58 PM
Thomas Jefferson Thomas Jefferson is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thunderbolt View Post
If you read the first post of this thread correctly, the age minimum has been lowered to 25. So, however implausible it may be, Clinton is eligible in 1980.

Having your running mate be more than twice your age (69 v 34) would be somewhat of a distracting issue though.
Clinton's pick of Reagan will help assuage the voters' worries about his 'youth and inexperience' (While James Dean was actually four years younger in 1960, he was also a war hero and came off as much less callow ITTL). Reagan also appeals to more fiscally conservative Democrats, as well as the remaining Cold Warriors, who remember his anti-communist stance, as well as those who would be considered libertarians IOTL, who like his support for free speech after the horrors of Nixon's term as Governor, and his legalization of sodomy, abortion, and marijuana in the late 1960s.
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  #94  
Old July 14th, 2012, 05:20 PM
TxCoatl1970 TxCoatl1970 is offline
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Here's a POD from hell re: Iran- see if they can be admitted as NATO member!

Have the Turks and US obliterate Syria and swing east from Damascus toward Baghdad and the Iranians roll up from Basra. Khomeini dies in cross-fire.
New Shah decides to pull a Juan Carlos and as part of NATO treaty alliance, restict himself to constitiutional monarchy, SAVAK disbanded, and the Majlis be a ruling parliament more or less as OTL Iranian revolution intended.
All the political pressure for reform goes into infighting and campaigning in the Majlis.

Now that Iran is the front-line for NATO, d'ya think the Soviets would've been so eager to flex in Afghanistan? of course, for the Soviets, it's the Near Abroad and as much their sphere of influence as Mexico is to the US.
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  #95  
Old July 14th, 2012, 10:32 PM
Thomas Jefferson Thomas Jefferson is offline
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Originally Posted by TxCoatl1970 View Post
Now that Iran is the front-line for NATO, d'ya think the Soviets would've been so eager to flex in Afghanistan? of course, for the Soviets, it's the Near Abroad and as much their sphere of influence as Mexico is to the US.
The Soviets aren't up to anything in Afghanistan. They have bigger problems in Eastern Europe, with Czechoslovakia threatening to leave the Warsaw Pact, Yugoslavia leaderless, and rumblings of popular discontent in Poland. To top it all off, Kosygin's on his last legs, and there is uncertainty as to who will replace him.
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  #96  
Old July 15th, 2012, 03:22 AM
Thomas Jefferson Thomas Jefferson is offline
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In First Act as President; Clinton Orders Troops to Iran
The New York Times, front page, January 20, 1981
Reagan Shot
The New York Times, front page, March 31, 1981
Papal Assassin Was Working for Iraqis
The New York Times, front page, May 23, 1981
Gorbachev Condemns Use of Chemical Weapons, Recalls Ambassadors from Syria and Iraq
The New York Times, front page, July 6, 1981
Polish Cardinal Crowned Pope Paul VII
The New York Times, front page, September 3, 1981
Sadat Killed by Syrian Agents
The New York Times, front page, October 6, 1981
Poland to Allow Multi-Party Elections in Response to 'Solidarity' Protests
The New York Times, front page, December 13, 1981
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  #97  
Old July 15th, 2012, 04:23 PM
Thomas Jefferson Thomas Jefferson is offline
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Captain David Petraeus to Receive Medal of Honor for Heroism in Iran
The Poughkeepsie Journal, front page, January 3, 1982
Syrian Invades Jordan
The New York Times, front page, February 3, 1982
UK Declares War on Syria, Thatcher Calls on NATO Members to do Likewise
The New York Times, front page, April 2, 1982
75,000 Attend Anti-War Rally in Central Park
The New York Times, page A2, June 12, 1982
Powell: Iraqis Pushed Back to Border, Increasing Use of Chemical Weapons
The New York Times, front page, August 4, 1982
US-UK Advance Halted By Nerve Gas
The New York Times, front page, September 10, 1982
Car Bomb Explodes at Conservative Party Conference in Brighton; Hundreds Feared Dead; IRA Claims Responsibility
The New York Times, front page, October 8, 1982
Scotland Yard: Reason to Believe Iraqi Involvement in Brighton Bombing
The New York Times, front page, October 10, 1982
The Iron Lady: 1925-1982
Time Magazine, cover story, October 12, 1982
Reeling Britain Hit With Sarin Gas Bombs in London Tube
The New York Times, front page, November 3, 1982
]

Nunn: Terrorists Could Strike Inside US
The New York Times, front page, December 20, 1982
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  #98  
Old July 15th, 2012, 09:02 PM
Thomas Jefferson Thomas Jefferson is offline
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NATO Troops Make Inroads in Northern Iraq
The New York Times, front page, January 2, 1983
Maintenance Issues Force Shutdown of Salem Reactor
The Philadelphia Inquirer, page A2, February 23, 1983
NATO Forces in Sight of Baghdad, Powell Warns of Intense Fighting for City
The New York Times, front page, April 13, 1983
Whitelaw Secures Sweeping Mandate in UK Elections
The New York Times, front page, June 9, 1983
US Casualties in Baghdad Reach 1000
The New York Times, front page, August 8, 1983
Baghdad Falls: Saddam Hussein Flees to Syria
The New York Times, front page, October 23, 1983
POW Robert Goodman Rescued in Daring SEAL Raid
The New York Times, front page, December 23, 1983
Inside the New Apple Macintosh
Popular Science, cover story, January 24, 1984
Winter Olympics Open in Gothenburg Despite Protests From Milosevic
The New York Times, front page, February 9, 1984
Clinton Heads to Tehran for Chemical Weapons Summit
The New York Times, front page, April 4, 1984
Syria Agrees to Disarm, Assad Flees to Exile in China
The New York Times, front page, July 20, 1984
Anderson Selects Former Commerce Secretary Bush as Running Mate
The New York Times, front page, August 20, 1984
As US Withdraws, Iraq Plagued by Sectarian Violence
The New York Times, front page, September 6, 1984
Clinton Wins Reelection With Unprecedented 62 Percent of Popular Vote
The New York Times, front page, November 7, 1987
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  #99  
Old July 16th, 2012, 01:11 AM
Thomas Jefferson Thomas Jefferson is offline
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Gay Community Calls for Federal Funding to Treat AIDS Virus
The New York Times, page A3, January 3, 1985
Reagan Pushes for Nuclear Disarmament in Meeting With Ryzhkov
The New York Times, front page, March 13, 1985
Iraq Observers Warn of Total Collapse of Public Order
The New York Times, front page, May 16, 1985
US Recalls Ambassador from South Africa
The New York Times, front page, July 20, 1985
AIP Filibusters AIDS Bill in Senate; Robertson Calls Disease God's Judgement; Clinton Blasts 'Heartless' Opposition
The New York Times, page A2, September 28, 1985
Nuclear Disarmament Summit Begins in Geneva
The New York Times, front page, November 19, 1985
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  #100  
Old July 16th, 2012, 02:49 PM
Thomas Jefferson Thomas Jefferson is offline
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McAuliffe Becomes First Civilian on Moon
The New York Times, page A3, January 28, 1986
China Walks Out of Geneva Talks Over Taiwan
The New York Times, front page, March 9, 1986
Fire at Russian Nuclear Plant Causes Severe Radiation Leak
The New York Times, front page, April 27, 1986
Pope Paul Travels to Poland, Will Meet President Walesa, Address Parliament
The New York Times, page A2, May 25, 1986
Rogers Commission: Dangerous Safety Lapses at Nuclear Plants
The New York Times, front page, June 8, 1986
AIP Targets Romney, Estevez in Bid to Expand Influence Beyond South
The New York Times, page A5, August 9, 1986
New Disarmament Talks Begin in Iceland, This Time Without China, India, or Pakistan
The New York Times, front page, October 11, 1986
AIP Picks Up House Seats With New Evangelical Votes, Midwest Governors Hold Hout
The New York Times, front page, November 5, 1986
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