Yaroslav the Wise is killed in 1018

[lokaloki]

Originally Posted by Mefisto

But I think that sainthood of protoplasts of current kings (Dobrawa was one of Premyslid so it would appeal to Czechs too) would give additional prestige to both dynasty and the country.

Yes, it's seems the logic way.

Possible but I would also see it as a coronation town (equivalent of Reims in France) with Poznań as an actual capital city. Poznań has much better position and possibilities to development.

It's seems, was some struggle between these cities.
Mieshko in TTL can live longer in Poznan, as he fought with the Empire. And Kasimir can moved the capital not to Krakow, but to Poznan.

I tried to find some more information. I found that Bezprym was originally prepared to monastic life... in the period 1061-1071 certain Lambert Suła was bishop of Krakow

I looked for the information too.
First bishop was Poppon, next - Gompon, but maybe, he was one. Then, he was the bishop in 1000-1018.
Next - Lambert I, 1019-1030. There is a version, that he was the brother of Boleslav. Not too popular version, yes, but...
Next - in OTL Rachelin (1030-1046), in TTL he is Otto, the brother of Mieshko (1030 - ?)
Next - in OTL Aaron (1046-1059), I want "sent" him to Rus' as the archbishop. Or he can be archbishop in Gnezno.
So, Otto should live in TTL until 1059, or he died some earlier, and then Lambert Sula became the bishop earlier. Casimir died in 1058, Otto, it's seems, could died in... e.g., 1051.
Lambert was the bishop in 1061/(1051)-1071.
So, in TTL we have Piasts as bishops of Krakow in 1019-1071, and 2 of them were brothers of kings.
But the problem is - Wladyslav was only 26 years old in 1071.

And prove me if I'm wrong but I have impression that in OTL Russians/Ruthenians thought that the writing is something that could be used by common folk and not only educated elites - thanks to the viking heritage and runes. If this attitude comes to Poland it would really change the development of Polish culture and hasten it much.

I'm never heard this earlier But, if secular literature was not used, e.g., in Poland, maybe, it's about Birch bark document. More than thousand are found in Novgorod, and about hundred in another Rus'. Only hundred - because documents are destroyed in another Rus' faster.

I'm not sure, but, maybe, it's from the Chronicle too. In 1037 it writes: "Yaroslav gathered many writers, and they translated from Greek to Slav language. They rewrote and gathered many books."
Sviatopolk could do by same way, only his writers translate from Latin.
And in TTL books will be written by "Illarionitca".

[Mefisto]

Originally Posted by lokaloki

It's seems, was some struggle between these cities.
Mieshko in TTL can live longer in Poznan, as he fought with the Empire. And Kasimir can moved the capital not to Krakow, but to Poznan.

Not as much struggle or rivalry as after Bretislav's raid there was nothing left in Greater Poland. In this timeline we could have Poznań, Kraków, Wrocław, Prague and Olomouc as nearly equal regional capitals to be joined later by Gdańsk and maybe some city in Masovia. I would predict a rivalry between Gniezno (the coronational city and the archbishop seat) and Poznań (main commerce city and place of kings' burials)

So, in TTL we have Piasts as bishops of Krakow in 1019-1071, and 2 of them were brothers of kings.
But the problem is - Wladyslav was only 26 years old in 1071.

He could be sent to a monastery first or act as king's emissary at other courts before he is given an important role. Besides do you want to keep the dates of princes' birth the same as in OTL? Kasimir got married earlier in this timeline than in OTL so he could have at least one child more. Maybe a daughter or a child which died early?

[/quote]
I'm never heard this earlier But, if secular literature was not used, e.g., in Poland, maybe, it's about Birch bark document. More than thousand are found in Novgorod, and about hundred in another Rus'. Only hundred - because documents are destroyed in another Rus' faster.
[quote]

This is and important difference between medieval Poland and Rus'. The first non-administrative and non-clerical piece of literature is a song sang by warriors of Bolesław the Wry-mouth when they conquered Pomerania. And it was written by Gallus Anonymus in latin. Only court scribes and monks in monasteries could write. The first text in Polish which survived to our time comes from XIV century.

I'm not sure, but, maybe, it's from the Chronicle too. In 1037 it writes: "Yaroslav gathered many writers, and they translated from Greek to Slav language. They rewrote and gathered many books."
Sviatopolk could do by same way, only his writers translate from Latin.
And in TTL books will be written by "Illarionitca".

From Greek too. And Poles would probably import many world and literary genres from Rus' as the both people would share the same culture.
I'm curious how the development of slavic languages would be altered: would the future linguists divide them into northern and southern branches? And would old slavonic survive as a liturgical language of Rus' or be completely replaced with latin? If the latter, the effect on development of Russian language(s) would be profound.

[lokaloki]

Sorry, that answered long.
I'm trying to understand, what was German nobility in XI century. And firstly I must understand what was the nobility in X century

Originally Posted by Mefisto

In this timeline we could have Poznań, Kraków, Wrocław, Prague and Olomouc as nearly equal regional capitals to be joined later by Gdańsk and maybe some city in Masovia.

Maybe, the king will go from city to city, like the emperor?

He could be sent to a monastery first or act as king's emissary at other courts before he is given an important role.

Maybe, to the Benedictine monastery in Tyncu, I think.

Maybe a daughter or a child which died early?

I think, a daughter, and, maybe, she will alive. I will think about "future" marriages.

The first text in Polish which survived to our time comes from XIV century.

So, Polish written language may be more archaic, it's seems. Like Russian language, which in XIX century had a problem: the spoken language differed from written.

I'm curious how the development of slavic languages would be altered: would the future linguists divide them into northern and southern branches? And would old slavonic survive as a liturgical language of Rus' or be completely replaced with latin? If the latter, the effect on development of Russian language(s) would be profound.

It's seems, it should be replaced with Latin. And I need more think about the development of the language in this case.
Northern and southern branches is a good idea. But, we will have more close peoples, Czechs, Polish and Kievan Russians. And it's the interesting question, I think.

[kasumigenx]

Originally Posted by Mefisto

Not as much struggle or rivalry as after Bretislav's raid there was nothing left in Greater Poland. In this timeline we could have Poznań, Kraków, Wrocław, Prague and Olomouc as nearly equal regional capitals to be joined later by Gdańsk and maybe some city in Masovia. I would predict a rivalry between Gniezno (the coronational city and the archbishop seat) and Poznań (main commerce city and place of kings' burials)

I think Wroclaw might be called Wratislawa(Wratislaw) not Wroclow ITTL..

[Mefisto]

Originally Posted by lokaloki

Sorry, that answered long.
Maybe, the king will go from city to city, like the emperor?

Medieval kings used to wander over their whole countries with their courts. It was easier to move the people than food and it was easier for the king to keep an eye on domestic affairs as the state administration was still primitive.

Maybe, to the Benedictine monastery in Tyncu, I think.

Why not.

I think, a daughter, and, maybe, she will alive. I will think about "future" marriages.

That's fine.

So, Polish written language may be more archaic, it's seems. Like Russian language, which in XIX century had a problem: the spoken language differed from written.

The same with french and english. In OTL there was major reform of polish ortography at the end of XVIII century and another one in thirties of XX century. And we still have some artifacts of old pronounciation in our language which are making the pupils crazy . If in this timeline the written wersion of Polish is established earlier it would diverge from the spoken version much more than in OTL.

It's seems, it should be replaced with Latin. And I need more think about the development of the language in this case.
Northern and southern branches is a good idea. But, we will have more close peoples, Czechs, Polish and Kievan Russians. And it's the interesting question, I think.

I'm really curious where it would lead us.

Originally Posted by kasumigenx

I think Wroclaw might be called Wratislawa(Wratislaw) not Wroclow ITTL..

Or Wrocisław, Vrotislav or something else. It really depends which slavic dialect would become dominant in this region. So far it is Greater-Polish dialect (opposite to OTL).

I admit that I have problems with the choise of spelling version of geographical names and names of people. I'm not sure if I should use local or english ones.

[lokaloki]

Originally Posted by kasumigenx

I think Wroclaw might be called Wratislawa(Wratislaw) not Wroclow ITTL.

Yes, maybe "Wratislaw" saved.
Thanks!

Originally Posted by Mefisto

If in this timeline the written wersion of Polish is established earlier it would diverge from the spoken version much more than in OTL.

But it's too long effect

I'm really curious where it would lead us.

I want to know it too, but now I have not time for AH.
I hope, I will continue TL soon.

It really depends which slavic dialect would become dominant in this region. So far it is Greater-Polish dialect (opposite to OTL).

I need to read more about dialects.
And Russian language (or Russian languages) will be another, than in OTL. The Novgorod dialect will have influence of the Scandinavian, the Kievan dialect - the influence of Latin and, probably, Polish; the Chernigow - the influence of Greek.

I'm not sure if I should use local or english ones.

It's seems (as I read in Wiki) - English ones are different too.

[lokaloki]

Chapter fifteen. 1044.

It was a bad year for Europe. The famine struck Germany and France. Vine was lost completely. Cattle died. The winter was severe and snowy.

Henry III gave Calabria to Henry of Luxembourg [1]. Henry received the title "The Duke of Calabria and Sicily" and he had the order to prepare supplies for the invasion of Sicily.
Henry III returned to Germany and in March married Anna, the daughter of Konstantin Monomach. [2] The Pope Clement II accompanied the emperor to Germany and crowned Anna as the empress in Ahen.
In April Gothelo I, Duke of Lorraine, died. The emperor divided Lorraine between his sons, Godfrey III and Gothelo II. Godfrey rebelled, because he wanted to rule all over Lorraine. But he was defeated same year and imprisoned with his son [3]. Adalbert became new Duke of Upper Lorraine [4].

In Scandinavia, Magnus of Denmark fought against Sven Estrydson. During the war, Prince of Obotrites was killed with all his sons. Gottschalk became a new Prince of Obotrites. He was ally of Denmark and Saxony [5].

In Poland, Kazimir prepared for the war with Pomerania. He wanted to return it to Poland [6]

In Hungary, Bela allied with the Pechenegs. He preferred to defeated and exile they, but the Pechenegs are allies of Poland and Rus, and, moreover, they fought against Byzantium, and Bela liked this war. So, he baptized the Pechenegs of Transilvania, gave them the lands, and they recognized he as their ruler. [7] As effect - more the Pechenegs moved to west.

In Kiev Yaropolk (the father of Sviatopolk) was named as Russian Saint. His body was burned at Saint Peter Church. [8]

In Polotck Brychislav died. Vseslav, his son, became the Prince of Polotck. [9]


In Byzantium the war against the Pechenegs continued. Konstanin recalled 20.000 men from Pontus and forces from Western Asia Minor and he had amassed 50.000 soldiers in Adrianople. Under the command of Nikephorus, an eunuch, the Imperial Army met in battle with the enemy on the 8th of June. The Imperial Army was slaughtered. The dead were more than 18.000, while the wounded and captured were decapitated by the barbarian nomads. An incident, points out the hate between the two enemies. The Vestarches Michael Dokianos was brought as a prisoner to a Pecheneg chieftain and killed. [10] Because Konstantin called troops to west, the invasion of Armenia stopped. [11]
The emperor had no forces to defeat Bulgarians - and the rebellion continued. Bela supported rebellions, as Stephan of Croatia and Stephan of Serbia too. They all wanted to have a country between their lands and Byzantium.
The citizens of Constantinople revolted [12]. Constantine preferential treatment of Maria Skleraina saw rumors spread that she was planning to murder both Zoe and Theodore. And Constantine was a bad emperor. He was killed, like Michal V two years before. Zoe and Theodore became empress again. But Zoe now could not marry again - because she had three husbands. Theodore didn't want to marry, [13] and the court is split in two again.




[1] - in OTL Henry received Bavaria in 1042. In TTL the emperor needs a man in Southern Italy, who will support the emperor. If he gave Calabria to Argyrus or to Guaimar of Solerno, they become too powerful. So, it's seems, he may give Calabria to Henry.
[2] - in OTL the wife was Agnes de Poitau.
[3] - in OTL he was defeated and imprisoned in 1045, but in OTL Henry fought in Hungary in 1044. In TTL the emperor could defeat Godfrey faster.
[4] - as in OTL, only earlier (in OTL - from 1047).
[5] - as in OTL. Different sources dated the beginning of the ruling of Gottschalk as 1043/1044.
[6] - in OTL Casimir returned Masovia in 1047.
[7] - The Pechenegs became federates of Byzantium in OTL. So, they could become ally of Hungary, I think. In OTL Solomon, the son of Andrew, allied with the Pechenegs against his half-brothers and married daughter of Pecheneg's ruler. So, Hungarian ruler could allied with the Pechenegs.
[8] - in OTL bodies of Yaropolk and his brother were baptized and burned at Church, which was built by Vladimir.
[9] - as in OTL.
[10] - as in OTL in 1050, during the long war against the Pechenegs.
[11] - in OTL the Greek army three or for times invaded Armenia during 1042-1045 years.
[12] - in OTL the mob was only quietened by the appearance of Zoe and Theodora at a balcony, who reassured the people that they were not in any danger of assassination. But in TTL citizens are angry with lost wars and nomads near the city. So, it's seems, Constantin was killed.
[13] - as she did in 1055 in OTL.

[Mefisto]

So we have stabilization in north (minus the war between Magnus and Svein Estridsen) complete subjugation of whole Italy to Henry III and real mess in Balkans. It looks like all conquests of Basil II would be lost - the empire has nothing to stop Bulgarian rebels from gaining independence and its european possessions are raided by Slavs, Hungarians and Pechenegs. They still have some time before Seljuks start to raid Anatolia but Armenians can also try to regain the lands they lost previously. Emperor Henry III is going to appear even more powerful than he was in OTL.

[lokaloki]

Originally Posted by Mefisto

So we have stabilization in north (minus the war between Magnus and Svein Estridsen)

Harald Hardrade is coming

It looks like all conquests of Basil II would be lost - the empire has nothing to stop Bulgarian rebels from gaining independence and its european possessions are raided by Slavs, Hungarians and Pechenegs.

And a political crisis destroyed the Empire - two empress hate one another. And Theodora, probably, acts like OTL in 1055, she changed generals, and changed good generals to bad ones.
Now I'm looking for the leader of Bulgarians.

They still have some time before Seljuks start to raid Anatolia but Armenians can also try to regain the lands they lost previously.

Yes, and, probably, Bagrat of Georgia will try to take lands.

Emperor Henry III is going to appear even more powerful than he was in OTL.

And... Is he too powerful or not? Is it real effects of POD?

[Mefisto]

No, he isn't too powerful. He has just even more luck with friends in north than in OTL. I'm curious if his power wasn't in OTL the reason of later strong reaction of Church. But also the kind of rule Agnes of Poitou tried to proceed after his death. I think that Maria would be a different regent as she comes from different environment. I think she wouldn't let anybody kidnap her son and she would fight the kidnaper. So the power of emperor wouldn't be shaken so much.

[lokaloki]

Chapter sixteen. 1045.

Slavs (liutichi) uprised. In winter Henry and Casimir attacked and defeated them [1].

Bulgarians uprising continues, and rebellions call Stefan Vojislav to be the ruler of Bulgaria. Stefan agreed and soon he was proclaimed as "Tzar of Bulgaria". [2]

Henry III with the empress and the Pope went from city to city. Clement II tried to reform bishoprics, monasteries, abbeys. The emperor met the empress with their vassals, and he prepared for Sicily campaign.
They went to Poland and Hungary too. [3] In Poland the emperor and Casimir discussed the war against Slavs. Henry leaved Bernard, the Duke of Saxony, as ally for the war.
Russian Princes (Sviatopolk and his sons: Yaroplok, Iziyslav, Sviatoslav, Vsevolod; Young Vseslav of Polotck), archbishop and bishops went to Poznan to meet the emperor and the Pope. The Pope agreed recognize the father of Sviatopolk as saint, and Casimir agreed give the body of Bruno.

In Hungary Henry III met the chiefs of the Pechenegs, and the Pope founded the bishopric of Trasilvania. Two Stefans, king of Croatia and tzar of Bulgaria met with Hungary and became vassals of the Empire. Henry III and Clement II gave the crown to Stefan Vojislav. [4]
Leo, archbishop of Ohrid, tried to begin struggle against the Pope and "heretic" tzar [5], but was excommunicated by the Pope and was exiled by the tzar.

Rus:
Yaropolk founded the Church of St Peter in Novgorod and Sviatopolk founded in Kiev the monastery of saint Yaropolk. [6]

Byzantium:
The crisis continued. Theodora sent new troops against the Pechenegs and Bulgarians, but she choose "wrong" generals, and both campaigns failed [7]. Bulgarians captured Northern Greece, and the Pechenegs ravaged lands around Adrianopolis.
Michael Cerularius, the Patriarch of Constantinople, spoke against the empresses, he demanded the emperor, and he spoke much and much, but he was arrested and exiled [8].
In autumn Macedonian rebelled and proclaimed Leo Tornikios as a new emperor. They captured Adrianopole, went to Constantinople and besieged the city [9].

In few days Leo seized Constantinople [10]. He returned exiled the Patriarch, then ordered to kill murders of his uncle, Constantin IX, and to blind both empresses. Some peopled tried to defend womens, but were defeated. Zoe and Theodora died in few days after the blinding.

Scandinavia:
Harald Hardrada returned home.
In Kiev he married Elizabeth, the daughter of Sviatopolk [11]. In Ladoga he met Harald Olafson. Ingegerd didn't want to allow her son go to Norway, but she can't forbid. She sent messengers to Magnus, the king of Norway. Magnus discussed with his men, and everybody advised him to made the peace with relatives and to divide the kingdom. [12]
So, in autumn, two Haralds arrived to Magnus and became kings.




[1] - as in OTL, but in OTL Polish troops didn't fight.
[2] - in OTL Bulgarians in 1071 called his grandson, Constantin Bodin, to be the king of Bulgaria. There is a version (or a legend) that Stefan was a grandson of Samuil - by daughter. Because the revolt is successful, Vojislav probably agreed.
[3] - in OTL Henry III went to Hungary to Peter.
[4] - in OTL his grandson became the king in 1081. Henry is interested in new kingdom under his power.
[5] - in OTL he attacked western church much.
[6] - as in OTL, but in OTL was Sofia.
[7] - in OTL, by Psell, Theodora removed good generals (Isaak Comnin was among them) and set new ones, but bad. In TTL she, probably, acted by same way - and Byzantines lost their battles.
[8] - in OTL he has the conflict with Theodora. By Psell - she had not time to arrest, she died too soon. In TTL, from another hand, Byzantium had much more problems, so, Michael spoked more aggressive.
[9] - as they did in OTL in 1047.
[10] - in OTL they can not. But in OTL people of the city are angry against the empresses and part of them liked "good old times" with Constantin. And there are priests, who supported exiled the Patriarch.
[11] - like OTL, but in OTL it was the daughter of Yaroslav.
[12] - in OTL Magnus did like this after Harald attacked Denmark. In TTL Magnus fought with Sweyn too, and he didn't want to fight against Ladoga too.

[lokaloki]

Chapter seventeen. Chernigow Principality/kingdom in 1018-1045 years.

During reign of Mstislav, the Principality was rich and strong state.
Probably, 60-75% of profit from all Russian trade with Byzantium get Chernigow. Moreover, Mstislav controlled the part of the Volga's trade way.

(Ancient Chernigow, reconstruction)
Mstislav had many allies at steppes, at Caucasus and at Byzantium (he helped the Empire at Crimea and at Rus'). His troops ravaged Derbent.[1]

The Russian metropolitan lived in Chernigow. Theopempt, the metropolitan from 1035, bring to Mstislav not only the wife, but also the crown from the Empire and the title of "king" [2]. Also, near 1036 Theopempt founded bishoprics in main cities of the kingdom: Pereyslavl, Smolensk, Murom and, probably, Kursk (Tmutarakan, probably, had a bishop already)[3].
The great church of Sophia was built at Chernigow.

(Church of Sophia (Spasskij sobor in OTL))
Cathedrals for bishops were built at main cities. Olga, grandmother of Vladimir, was recognized as Saint and the Monastery of Olga was founded [4].
Antony lived in caves near the city - it was the beginning of Chernigow-Caves Monastery[5].

Probably, Greek influence was strong. Many books are rewritten - both in Greek and in Russian. Painters from Byzantium worked in the kingdom. Main priests are Greek.

But after the death of Eustaphius in 1033 the crisis begun. Chernigow lost allies on steppes and Caucasus - Russian troops were defeated, and Mstislav didn't send a new army. Mstislav was depressed, and his boyars [6] decided many questions. Their power growth fast. When Mstislav died in 1041, his widow can't effectively control them. Theopempt also had no power - he can't excommunicated any, because it can start the pagan rebellion. So, the metropolitan had a voice on Councils, but not more. Boyars became more and more independent, the kingdom slowly moved to anarchy.

In 1043, the posadnik of Tmutarakan decided to attack Yaropolk himself, without any order from the capital. Boyars of Pereyslav open gates to Svitopolk, after he promised save all rights of boyars. After the peace, Tmutarakn became almost independent state. Murom was captured by Bulgarians, Viytichi uprised and refused to pay tribute to Chernigow. After unsuccessful war, Byzantium is lost as ally for Chernigow too.

So, in 1045 Chernigow had Kursk and Smolensk as semi-independent vassals, and, it's seems, it is rather poor and it is no more a great state.
The queen was rather weak, and the metropolitan Theopempt tried to save the power of the kingdom by bishops.
Helen, the future wife of Iziyslav of Kiev, was 9 years old and waited for the marriage.
Constantin was 7 years old. And, it's seems, he growth as cruel ruler, who want to revenge boyars.

[1] - in general, as in OTL. The profit from the trade, maybe, was less.
[2] - Vladimir the Great also get both, the wife and the title.
[3] - as answer on foundation of bishoprics at Polotck and Novgorod. There is a version, that the bishop of Kursk existed before Mongols.
[4] - in OTL she was recognized in XIII century, but Russians begun revere she from end of X century.
[5] - in OTL he lived near Kiev and Kievo-Pechersk monastery was founded.
[6] - nobles.

[Mefisto]

Your last post is partly an answer to questions I wanted to ask. I mean what are relations between particular states in Russia? What is a status of Yaropolk - is he a prince or a king? Are the princes of Novgorod and Polotsk his subjects?

And why Bulgarians have kingdom? I would think that their reborn state would be a tsardom?

So Henry is totally dominating Europe. The days of slavic pagans are counted, the Sicily is about to be invaded, the southern Italy is strictly in his grasp and he even chases Byzantines from Balkans by supporting southern slavic vassals. If bulgarian catholicism survives it would have enormous consequences for culture of all slavic people... But I think it is not that certain. Bulgarian populations have not only strong cultural ties with Constantinople but they also have bogomil heresy ready to be exported abroad. So I'm afraid no stabilization in near future is available. Especially if Eastern Empire regains some strength during the incoming years.
The early conquest of Sicily would have enormous consequences in how the conduct of wars with muslims would be shaping.

[lokaloki]

Originally Posted by Mefisto

What is a status of Yaropolk - is he a prince or a king? Are the princes of Novgorod and Polotsk his subjects?

I want to write some posts about separate states in 1018-1045.
Sviatopolk is Grand Prince of Kiev, Yaropolk, his son, is the Prince of Novgorod. So, Novgorod is subject.
Polotsk is the ally, and formally the subject, as Vseslav should do, what the Grand Prince orders.
Chernigow is independent, but it is weak.

And why Bulgarians have kingdom? I would think that their reborn state would be a tsardom?

Probably, yes. I'm not so good in titles. Thanks!

If bulgarian catholicism survives it would have enormous consequences for culture of all slavic people... But I think it is not that certain.

I thought, Bulgarians will Orthodox, only with another archbishop, who recognizes, that the tzar can be the vassal of Henry. But, maybe, archbishop will the bogomil. And Stefan can support bogomils, or they can choice another tzar, from sons of Ivan Vladislav.

I'm afraid no stabilization in near future is available. Especially if Eastern Empire regains some strength during the incoming years.

I am thinking - can Isaac Comnin become the new emperor or it must be somebody else, because the year is only 1045.

The early conquest of Sicily would have enormous consequences in how the conduct of wars with muslims would be shaping.

Yes, probably. I would know, is it Sicily so easy for the invasion in 1046 as in 1060, or not.

[rldragon]

Cool, I was waiting for your update.

[Mefisto]

Again about Bulgarians. The title "tsar" was meant to be equal to "emperor" and "basileus". I thought that the ruler of reborn Bulgarians state would assume imperial title of the former rulers. But I see that the former patriarchate in Ochrid was demoted to archbishopric and the clergy was greek. So probably the archbishop would not crown the upstart Bulgarian emperor. So I see that in this case you were right and Stefan Vojislav would like to obtain a crown from the pope and western emperor. My mistake, though probably his own people would continue to call him "tsar" but for official diplomacy he would be "rex Bulgarorum" - king of Bulgarians.

Sorry for messing with your timeline.

Reading more about Balkans and Byzantium: I would see both earlier Isaac's Komnenos mutiny if the current emperor is not competent and his rule. And probably descendants of tsar Ivan Vladislav would be supported by Byzantines to topple Stefan Vojislav, especially if he considers himself subject of pope and promotes latin influences in rite.
Well, the daughter of Ivan Vladislav, Catherine of Bulgaria was wife of Isaac Komnen, so they would have joint interest in abolishing Stefan Vojislav.

If you choose this path interesting times would come to Balkans.

[lokaloki]

Originally Posted by rldragon

Cool, I was waiting for your update.

Thanks!

Originally Posted by Mefisto

Sorry for messing with your timeline.

No-no-no! Thanks for the title and bogomils! I think, Stephan will named himself as "tzar", and his relations with Orthodoxes and Catholics will be very difficult.

If you choose this path interesting times would come to Balkans.

I think same way in general I hope, the times will be interesting.
Thanks!

[Mefisto]

It would be good to have new map, to see what are current borders of Russian states, Balkan states and Hungaria and Obodrites. The west of Europe probably looks the same as in OTL with possible minuscule differences in Norway, which was just divided into three realms. But with different wifes different children would be born, so soon the German, Norvegian and French dynasties would diverge from OTL. Right now the most important question is how successfull would be Germans and Italians in Sicily, Poles in Pomerania and Byzantines in Balkans.

Nice job so far with your timeline.

[lokaloki]

Originally Posted by Mefisto

It would be good to have new map, to see what are current borders of Russian states, Balkan states and Hungaria and Obodrites.

Added schematic map. I don't sure about Eastern part of Byzantium - probably, Georgia and Armenia used the crisis of the Empire. I didn't "divide" the kingdom of Magnus - because Magnus will died soon, and borders will change again.
I want to think about states and to make more detailed map.

But with different wifes different children would be born, so soon the German, Norvegian and French dynasties would diverge from OTL.

Yes.
And, I think, Henry of French will marry Gertrude of Poland about 1046.
And the early imprisoning of Bretislav butterflies away marriages of his sons (or changes them).

Right now the most important question is how successfull would be Germans and Italians in Sicily, Poles in Pomerania and Byzantines in Balkans.

Yes. And, maybe, I will write about Sicily in 1045 too.

[lokaloki]

Chapter eighteen. Kiev and Polotsk Principalites, Ladoga "konungdom", the Pechenegs.

Kiev was rather poor and weak after the war against Byzantium.
Firstly, Byzantium preferred to trade with Chernigow and the profit of Kiev was rather low. Secondly, Ladoga controlled the trade way to Europe via Novgorod, and the profit from this trade way was rather low too.
Trade way via Vladimir - Krakow - Prague was developed, and Vladimir fast grew. But the way via Novgorod was more comfortable, and when much goods are went away, Ingegerd in Ladoga gave additional rights to Kievan merchants. Novgorod (and Toropec, the city between Smolensk and Novgorod) grew too.

Sviatopolk needed money - so, probably, he attacked Baltic people to get tribute. In late 1020s Sviatopolk went against Yotvingians several times and founded Grodno [1] In 1030-1032 Sviatopolk fought against the Empire. And in late 1030s he went against Lithuania several times, together with Briyachislv of Polotsk [2]. In 1040 "Riga" was founded - the city at mouth of Dvina. Maybe, its name was "Peter-gorod" - like "Nov-gorod" and by name of Sviatopolk.
Relations between Kiev and Polotsk became better and closer. Princes fought together, and Vseslav (the son of Briyachislav) became the friend of sons of Sviatopolk. The new trade way to Europe was opened - Polotsk fast grew, and Novgorod begun to lose his importance.

(Polotsk)
Nobody exiled Greek priests, but many of them went away themselves. They went to Chernigow or to Byzantium, and as a result Chernigow Principality was some more Christianity, than in OTL. New priests came from Poland, but Polish priests were not very numerous at that time, and many priests came from Germany. They brought Latin languages and Latin books. From another hand, some Greek priests stayed at Kiev, and they have Greek books. And Russian used a Cyrillic alphabet, but under pressure from Latin Church, the alphabet was changed. Illarion, the priest of Sviatopolk, invented the new alphabet - Latin, but with new letters for Slavic sounds. These letters he get from Cyrillic. It was a strange mix of cultures in Kiev for years.
Nobody banned Orthodox church, but new bishops became Catholic, and the Grand Prince supported Catholics. Boyars changed the faith rather fast, but not all nobles. The people "took no notice" of a new faith.
In 1032 Novgorod and Polotsk get their bishops. In 1042, when a new archbishop of Rus' came to Kiev, new bishoprics were founded - at Vladimir, Rostov, and Turov.

Dynastic marriages of Kiev:
The wife of Sviatopolk - the daughter of Boleslav of Poland.
The sister of Sviatopolk - the wife of Casimir.
Daughters:
Anna - the wife of Harald Olafson, the heir of Ladoga and one of kings of Norway.
Elizabeth - the wife of Harald Hardrada, the second king of Norway.
Anastasia - the wife of Andrew, the Prince of Hungary, the brother of the king of Hungary.

Sons:
Yaropolk (25 years old) - the name of the wife in OTL is unknown. In TTL, it's seems, too
Iziaslav (21 years old) - the husband of Helen, the daughter of Mstislav, not married yet.
Sviatoslav (18 years old) - the name of the wife is unknown too.
Vsevolod (15 years old)
Viacheslav (9 years old)
Igor (8 years old)

The Prince of Polotsk was Vseslav in 1045. The name of his wife is unknown too.

Ladoga was poly-ethnic "konungdom", and Ingegerd ruled it. Harad, her son, growth and - went away to Norway. Ladoga was not so important as Novgorod in OTL, because less goods are carried via the city, but Ladoga was rich and strong.

Ingegerd had good relations with Sweden - she was the daughter of the king of Sweden, and she was Ingling, the women from king's family. And she had good relations with Rus' - Harald married Anna. And Ladoga slowly increased its area, by campaigns against close tribes, in north and west.
Ladoga was Catholic, but not submitted to the bishop of Novgorod - and it was submitted to the archbishop of Hamburg, as all North.

The Pechenegs were allies of Rus' and Poland for a long time. After successful wars in Hungary and Byzantium, many of nomads moved to the west. Torki replaced them in steppes. [3]

[1] - in OTL Yaroslav went against Estonians people and founded Yurijev in 1030. But the center of power of Yaroslav was Novgorod. The center of power of Sviatopolk, probably, was Kiev. So, he attacked closest neighbors.
[2] - in OTL he made two campaigns: 1038 - Yotvingians and 1040 - Lithuania. In TTL Yotvingians were lyied under tribute already. And Polotsk, which controlled all over Dvina - it's a new trade way to Europe. In OTL Kukenosse was founded about mid of XI century. With help of Kiev, Polotsk could found the city like "Riga" about 1040, before the wars begun.
[3] - it's seems, like OTL.