My Attempt to Remove Superpowers

[B_Munro]

Originally Posted by Elfwine

It's not going to be less ludicrous just because time passes. You need something to build on and interest in building in it.

OK, now I'm starting to get a Richard Pipes vibe off of you...

Bruce

[Elfwine]

Originally Posted by B_Munro

OK, now I'm starting to get a Richard Pipes vibe off of you...

Bruce

Richard who?

Edit:

I'm not saying the Soviet Union is all evil - just not based on (and I'm looking at Russian history in general) a good foundation for liberalization.

How long did it take other countries (than Russia) with no meaningful liberal institutions to develop them? How much resistance was there to developing them? Why should the USSR be better if you don't have the leadership ("those with the power") interested in it?

[Killer300]

Originally Posted by Snake Featherston

A potential here is for the Germans to come closer to winning in 1918 than they did IOTL, meaning fear of the existent potential of a resurgent Germany is more immediately on the brain than fear of a Soviet threat that 1920 would show at least for the short term doesn't exist. You need the Germans to do some really, really stupid things.

Wouldn't that just cause France to rip out the Rhineland, in all likelihood?

[Snake Featherston]

Originally Posted by Killer300

Wouldn't that just cause France to rip out the Rhineland, in all likelihood?

Yes, and in that case the Soviets don't have a Germany that benefits them in much of a notable way to consider bargaining with, either.

[Killer300]

Originally Posted by Snake Featherston

Yes, and in that case the Soviets don't have a Germany that benefits them in much of a notable way to consider bargaining with, either.

And, in that case... well, the Soviet Union may be more focused on because Germany now has no way of threatening anyone, or at least not France. France can just fortify Rhineland, and will give Germany an impossible military situation.

[Snake Featherston]

Originally Posted by Killer300

And, in that case... well, the Soviet Union may be more focused on because Germany now has no way of threatening anyone, or at least not France. France can just fortify Rhineland, and will give Germany an impossible military situation.

And by comparison the Soviets have every reason to want to be conciliatory to Allies who've already proven willing to drop the hammer on Germany, no? Regardless of their sincerity in this matter.

[Killer300]

Originally Posted by Snake Featherston

And by comparison the Soviets have every reason to want to be conciliatory to Allies who've already proven willing to drop the hammer on Germany, no? Regardless of their sincerity in this matter.

True, however, this doesn't exactly prevent superpowers with Western Europe for the Soviet Union. The latter will probably try to re-arm a lot, which on the plus side(for the Soviets) could mean more attention to things like Deep Operations, but for everyone else, means the bear is going to be gaining quite the military strength.

Additionally, this doesn't quite power down the US in of itself, although does perhaps prevent things like World War 2, which causes its own butterflies.

[Admiral Matt]

As others have said, the US in the OP scenario would still very much be a superpower. Losing Oregon in the 1860s is a joke, a century of confederate resistance is a fantasy, Alaska an irrelevance. If the Soviet Union was a superpower, so would be this USA, which would be stronger.

Obviously having a devastating revolution isn't enough to remove Russia. It took two revolutions, two utter disasters in world wars, and no little misrule to do it in OTL, after all.

British-led Imperial Federation, China, France-dominated Europe, Germany-dominated Europe, a federalized Spanish America, and India are the other possible contenders. India is safely out of the running by about 1750 anyway, unless its wagging the dog of the Imperial Federation. By 1815 France and New Spain both were out of the question as well. Britain wasn't a superpower, but was about as near as a great power could get. It could though have managed as the nucleus of a great power with the right POD spurring Imperial Federation before 1880 or so. Germany went out the window for all intents and purposes in 1933 - not that no victory was possible - just a victory that would leave them a genuine superpower. China could easily have gotten there as late as 1925, and still had an outside chance as late as the 1950s of reaching that status by today.

So the trick is that we have to, as OTL, break Russia and China, while simultaneously eliminating the USA, and we have to do all that without accidentally opening an opportunity for one of the potential contenders of OTL.