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#3621
June 27th, 2012, 07:14 AM
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I feel I should share this in here, don't worry it gets good.
I was playing a game of Crusader Kings 2 today and I was playing as Kiev. My goal was to take advantage of the new Kingdoms and Empires in Eastern Europe released with the 1.6 patch today. I went to war with a another Russian state called Chernigov by claiming all of the Duke's titles, then I formed the Kingdom of Ruthenia with the increased amount of land I got, I won without taking any land because I fought a battle and ended up taking the Duke prisoner, making my warscore 100% and allowing me to force terms of surrender without taking any land from him. With that I then used my better position of having more lands and having the title of King to invade Rostov. With Rostov they fell after taking the Demesne of the Duke. I then used my increased lands taken from Rostov, Chernigo, and my starting lands to form the kingdom of Rus. Because I was the king of Rus I could offer vassalization easily to anyone within the De Jure Kingdom, doing this I got Novgorod, Polotosk, and Vladimir without any war at all. After I got Vladimir to join me by assassinating the Count to be replaced by his more likable son I got a notification on the top of my screen. It said, "Weak claim can be pressed". Naturally I was confused, since the 1.6 patch just introduced the difference between strong and weak claims. So it turns out that the count of Vladimir had in his court a woman with a weak claim to the throne of the Byzantine Empire, where the claim is from and how she got it I do not know nor do I really care. It turns out the current Emperor of the Byzantines was mentally challenged so weak claims could be pressed rather than only strong ones as would normally happen. I wanted to press her claim by I wanted to first secure a marriage with her so that I could get my dynasty (House Rurikovich) to marry her without having her get all high and mighty on the Byzantine throne and being in a position to demand a marriage that transfers the mother's dynasty rather than the father's to the son or daughter. I got her betrothed to my 3 year old son and then proceeded to wait until they were married when he came of age. While I was waiting the Emperor of Byzantium died and was replaced by his son, I could no longer press the weak claim since they had a stable ruler. However I did not cancel the betrothal since I knew that I could still maybe use it in the future. My wife died while I was waiting so I broke the betrothal and married her myself, so as to produce children of my Dynasty but with her claim to Byzantium faster. Eventually I got that message again saying "Weak claim can be pressed" so I went to check on the Empire and by god the place was in civil war, one side was contesting the Emperor's claim to the throne (a legitimate child) against the claim of what I think was the second or third son. Because the throne was already being contested weak claims could be thrown into the ring and that is exactly what I did. Marching men through neutral Vlachia (Pagan and run by Cumans) I seized most of Bulgaria and Thrace, taking lands from the Demesne of the Emperor and even Constantinople. Eventually I made peace with the Emperor, giving the throne of the Byzantine Empire to my wife. However the side that was originally contesting the throne was now contesting my wife's claim. Now these guys covered about 3/5 of the country from Greece to Eastern Anatolia so it wasn't like this was a small group of people. I moved my army down into the leader of the rebellion (the Doux of Thessaloniki) and took his two counties, his army was on the other side of Greece in Epirus. I fought that army and ended up taking him prisoner, doing that bumped up me and my wife's warscore to 100% and peace was made, the dust settled and what emerged was a new Byzantine Empire. The Doux of Thessaloniki and the Prince who had the throne originally were stripped of all titles, going to the new Empress. This contained much of Northern Greece and Thrace, drastically increasing the power and wealth of the monarch who herself had 3 counties in Eastern Anatolia (no clue how or why though). Within about a month the Empress gave birth to a son, my son, the the heir to the throne of the Byzantine Empire (with a weak claim to the United Kingdom of Rus and Ruthenia) Kirill Rurikovich. The Empress has a 0% chance of any rebellions going on any everyone accepts her as Empress, I saved my game and restarted it and played as her to check how stable it was so that is how I know. I bring this up because I remembered this TL and Andreas' bastards and the coming time of troubles. I was able to completely replace the Emperor in the midst of a civil war and secure my Dynasty's lordship over the Empire, and after doing so faced no opposition to the new leader. This was a claim that came out of left field through a female line, Andreas has several Bastards, children, and obscure relatives with stronger claims that my wife did. I now think that the Byzantines are screwed once Andreas dies. They will recover eventually but they will be screwed for at least the next decade or two.
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Iron and Longships, Another Vinland TL Quote:
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#3622
June 27th, 2012, 07:16 AM
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It certainly has excellent potential to be very, very ugly.
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#3623
June 27th, 2012, 08:46 AM
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Evilprodigy: Something like that, although I would like to avoid the psychotic militarism though.
Sounds like a fun game. In my original draft, the Time of Troubles killed off a fifth of the Empire's population (it did last for forty years, after all). PlayerOne: In MEIOU the Byzantines are called the Roman Empire, and I just formed the Holy Roman Empire, giving me control over all of Germany. Alexandria Eschate: Yes to your first and last questions. The Roman Catholics dislike Orthodoxy more, although Hungary is the most disliked by that category, since the Hungarians have trolled the Italians, Germans, and Poles. Your list looks right, potential future entries are the Empire of All the North and Castile-Portugal (Spain). I'm thinking of doing some personal unions with the Iberian states, since as it is, I can't see any of them becoming great powers, and I like the idea of an industrial power in Iberia. Elfwine: Well, no Turkish occupation does mean that the Balkans never went through the chaos and destruction of the conquest, which means ITTL the Balkans don't have a century of stalled development. Also western Anatolia's more populous, since it got a peaceful late 13th century and early 14th century, unlike OTL. Ze Kaisar: I agree. Those two powers definitely have superpower potential. brokenman: The Cumans got assimilated. They weren't as numerous as the Turks and they were settled in more populous western Anatolia. As for Scandinavia, they're going through a quiet phase. But in a few decades, I'm going to start setting up the Empire of All the North. Player One: An Arles-Aragon-Aquitaine would make for a great power (and the champion of alliteration). Creative burst today, so here is Part 3. Cannae, Afternoon of November 18, 1471: Miguel de Talavera, Grandmaster of the Hospitaler Order, stretched out his left arm. “Hello, Julius.” The raven landed on his forearm. “Did you deliver the message?” Caw! “I’ll take that as a yes,” he said, feeding the raven a piece of raw meat. “Alright, up you go.” He raised his arm and the bird took off, a second later Manuel flicking his gloved hand. Julius was the Empress Kristina’s best bird; her unofficial title ‘Empress of Blackbirds’ was an appropriate one. She’d spent the last six months making sure that Julius would obey him, all for this maneuver. Miguel adjusted the patch covering the hole where his left eye used to be, taken by a Mameluke arrow at Jerusalem. A loss that had been in vain, because of men like these in front of him, false crusaders, who took the oath he had dedicated his life to and then spat and trampled all over it, who rose their swords against Christians, the ones who could make the liberation of the Holy Land possible. “Time to kill some scum,” he muttered. He looked to his side. Six thousand horsemen stood with him, one thousand of them knights of the Order. The rest were Romans, eight hundred of them Muslims. At least half had been at Jerusalem, had stormed the walls along with Miguel and his knights. They’d been ferried behind the crusader lines, with the mission of taking the enemy in the rear. It had taken longer than expected to get here; a supply convoy had to be ambushed and all survivors hunted down to maintain secrecy before they arrived. In front was the fabled field of Cannae, sloping down in front of him. Both sides were fully engaged, the Roman fist digging into the crusader center, but he could see black cavalry columns sweeping around the flanks. Cannon fire had ceased from both sides, but thick clouds of powder smoke hung in the air. “Tourmarch Melissenos,” he said. “Take the right three tourma and hit there.” He pointed at the crusader right wing, where the banner of France-England was flapping. “I’ll take the rest and strike there.” He pointed at the center, where the Imperial eagle, the standard of the Holy Roman Emperor, was. The officer and historian nodded. “What about the left wing?” “There are no royal banners there, and we don’t have enough to hit all three at the same time. The Emperor is keeping the bastards busy, but even so we’re going to have to let some go.” “Perhaps they’ll put the fear of God in the Catholics.” Miguel grinned wolfishly. “Perhaps. But I doubt it. They’re even more thick-headed than you Greeks.” Matthaios smiled. “You’re just jealous that we’re tougher than you.” A snort. “Yeah, right. We’ll see about that. Are your men ready?” “Oh, they’re ready, alright.” Miguel nodded. “Then let’s go.” As the Roman rode off, Miguel turned to his brothers, his fellow knights. “True Soldiers of God, it is time! It is time to crush these barbarians, those who would sully your name with the blood of the faithful. Jerusalem will one day be free, but not so long as these dogs live. Show no mercy, for they are oath-breakers, traitors to the cause of Christendom. And when we are done, let there be naught but true soldiers of the cross here!” He turned around again. “Knights, advance!” Trumpets sounded, and together, six thousand cavalry marched forward. They came at a trot first, as both sides continued to smash each other, oblivious to the arrival of a new force. But then crusaders began to move, men spilling out from the back, frantically trying to form a rear guard. The turkopouloi shot forward, slamming out arrows into the staggering formations, targeting officers. For a moment, the rearguard wavered, and then with a great cry of “For Saint George and England!” the longbowmen opened up. Light horse went down screaming. And then the skythikoi were upon them, their approach blocked from view by the swirling array of turkopouloi. The longbowmen were veterans. They were used to Roman cavalry charges. They were accustomed to the calls to saints, even the grim, eerie silence of the kataphraktoi. But nothing had prepared them for the inhuman howl as the enraged skythikoi swept over them. One charge was enough, the few survivors shrieking back in panic as the turkopouloi fell on them as well, while the heavy horse archers unfurled their bows and commenced slamming arrows into the crusader formations. The knights and kataphraktoi sped up to a canter. Men started to collapse, even as crossbows began to snap back. From one section of the line, covered by Palatine banners, a hail of arquebus fire roared out. More Romans toppled out of their saddles, but then a black fist of arrows shredded the Palatines. More and more crossbows and arquebuses were being brought to bear on the skythikoi and turkopouloi, but they remained at their posts, scourging their assailants, drawing fire down on them as the kataphraktoi, the true fist of the attack, remained untouched. They burst into a gallop. The shaking earth finally alerted the crusaders to the danger, and a sickly volley leapt out. It had as much effect as pebbles thrown at a charging elephant. The horse archers were wheeling out of the way, the turkopouloi still loosing arrows as the skythikoi unsheathed their maces. Miguel smiled. He could smell the fear, the terror, the stench of emptied bowels. He raised his lance, and from the charge, came the terrible call, the call of Orthodoxy, of Islam, and of Catholicism. “Saint Theodoros!” “Allahu ackbar!” “Deus vult!” Together. Perhaps there was something on earth that could stop such a force. But the shredded, ad-hoc remnants of the crusader rearguard was not that something. And from the ranks of black knights, their white crosses blazing, once again came the call. “Deus vult!” Pebbles before elephants. * * * Frederick stared at the body lying in front of him. It wasn’t one of his own men, but a Roman tourmarch. He had been commanding one of the sections of the refused Roman right flank, one of the sections that had been overrun. He could have surrendered, had been about to, but then he had seen Frederick. Manuel of Kyzikos had been cut down before he reached the Holy Roman Emperor, but he had tried, wagering his life on the small chance that he could slay Frederick and cripple the crusader army. He failed, but Frederick had taken the body with during the retreat, so that he could pay his respects. The battle had been going well, until that cavalry charge had come out of nowhere and annihilated the right flank and center of the army. He’d been on the left, away from his banner. Knowing Andreas, he would have been the prime target of anything hidden up the Greek’s sleeves. He’d been right. If he’d stayed with his standard, he would be dead along with King Henry, killed while defending his own, according to the few survivors of that action. Frederick had withdrawn the left wing in good order, and been joined by the flanking forces that hadn’t engaged yet. Reinforced by survivors, he still had numerical parity with the Romans, although he’d lost the entire English artillery train. But there was no point in fighting here. It wouldn’t help Bavaria. It was Germany that mattered now. Both France-England and Lotharingia were in the hands of minors, while Saxony’s army was gutted. And then there were the Russians. Already their cavalry scouts had been reported on the Oder, and the Megas Rigas had publicly declared that he ‘would water his horse in the Rhine.’ There were opportunities, and dangers, aplenty, but in Germany. There was nothing for him here in Italy. Frederick looked up at another Greek captive, a priest, captured at Naples. “He is to be buried according to the rites of your faith. See to it.” The priest nodded. Next to him, the papal legate squawked. Frederick couldn’t remember the name of the Italian midget. Nor did he care. He called him Pasta. “What?! He’s a heretic. Just throw him in a hole and be done with it. You need to star-urk!” Frederick’s hairy hand was clamped around his throat. “I said, he is to be buried according to the rites of his faith.” He tightened his grip. “Is that a problem?” Pasta gurgled. “I take that as a no.” He let go, Pasta collapsing on the ground rasping. Frederick turned to a page. “Get a flag of truce and go over to the Roman camp. I wish to speak with the Emperor of the Greeks.” * * * Frederick looked at Andreas, who stared back at him. They were alone, their generals and bodyguards thirty feet away warily eyeing each other. To the east, the setting sun was dappling the clouds on the horizon. “So you will withdraw?” Andreas asked. “And what of your holy crusade?” “I say that if it’s God’s war, he can fight it himself.” “All crusaders will withdraw?” “No. I cannot compel the Florentine and Papal forces. But the remainder will withdraw, provided you agree to my terms.” They were simple terms. Both sides would return all prisoners without ransom, and the crusaders would be provided enough supplies to see them to the pre-war Roman Italian border. In exchange, France-England, Lotharingia, and the Holy Roman Empire would formally quit the crusade. What happened between the Greeks and the remaining crusaders would be none of Frederick’s business. “And you swear that your forces will take no part in whatever comes next? I am going to deal with that bastard once and for all.” “Rome means nothing to me.” In fact, take it, please. Expel the Papacy. Where is it going to go? Germany, of course, and my pocket. And kill Pasta while you’re at it. Andreas smiled, a thin smile. “Good, then we are agreed.” Frederick nodded. “Excellent. There is one more thing though.” Should I ask about Philippe? Nah. “The tourmarch, Manuel of Kyzikos, I believe he was a friend of yours?” “Is he, is he, alive?” “I am sorry. He fought bravely, and was killed in the line of duty. I arranged for him to be given an Orthodox burial. If you like, I can show you where he is buried.” “Thank you,” Andreas rasped. “I would like that very much.” * * * Andreas stared at the mound of earth covering Manuel’s body. Behind him, over twenty feet away, stood Lorenzo and Andronikos. The ground was cold, but he did not care. Although his body sat there, illuminated by the last fading light of the setting sun, his mind was not. He sat there, and remembered. He remembered the first time he had met Manuel. He had been a boy of six, wondering at who this strange giant was (of course, back then all men had been giants). He’d been afraid of him The next day, the giant snitched two sugar cookies while Andreas’ mother wasn’t looking, one for himself, and one for Andreas. There was a rustle of grass as Zoe sat down next to him. There was silence as they both stared, remembering together. A blade, whirling, twirling, holding back a tide of Venetians. Smyrna. The Black Day. And the man who had made sure that it lasted for just one day. The man who had been at his side through it all. The Black Day. The siege of Constantinople. The regency. Sicily. But no more. “They all die, and yet we live,” Zoe whispered. “I sometimes think it is a curse.” “It is. But soon, soon, it will be over.” He looked at Zoe. Helena stared back at him. Andreas blinked. It wasn’t his mother; it was Zoe. He brushed a tear from her cheek. “You look like mother.” A smile flitted across Zoe’s face. “You don’t look like father.” Andreas smiled weakly. “But you are right. Time to lay this to rest. All of it.” Three days later: Andreas stared at the other occupants of the tent. Vlad, Thoros, Miguel, the strategoi, including Alfredo and his broken left arm, and Zoe at his side. He knew what they were thinking. Now what? Frederick and the forces under his command had stood aside as the Romans fell on and destroyed the Florentine and Papal armies, and were now being escorted to the Umbrian border. The Roman army had been hammered. Out of the fifty six thousand engaged, fifteen thousand were casualties. Some were in favor of standing down. With Frederick gone, the teeth of the crusade was gone as well. Once the French-English and Lotharingian fleets withdrew, the Roman-Georgian flotillas would have the advantage on the sea as well. No, Andreas thought. We should have ended this twelve years ago. This time, no distractions, no delays. This road began at the Black Day. It is high time it ended. His eyes locked with Zoe’s. She smiled. And Andreas spoke. “Tomorrow we march on Rome.”
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An Age of Miracles: The Revival of Rhomanion The Revival of Rhomaion Up to Part 11, 1502-1516 The Keys of Heaven
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#3624
June 27th, 2012, 08:57 AM
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I think I like Frederick, Pasta not so much but Frederick seems like a strong willed individual. Also it's about time Rome came under the Empires crosshairs, and it couldn't be at a better time too. Doubtful anyone's capable of putting up much of a ruckus about it at the moment given the debacle that is Cannae.
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#3626
June 27th, 2012, 09:06 AM
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Deus vult indeed. It's good to see some real crusaders there.
I wonder how the Hospitaler attack is going to play in Western Europe?
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#3627
June 27th, 2012, 09:35 AM
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Pardon my language, but frankly, England-France and Lotharingia were f**ked in the ass by Cannae. Europe is going to experience some 'interesting' times, from Ireland to the Poles. Of the two powers west of the Rhine, I think that the Lotharingians are more in deep crap, considering they have Arles and the HRE to deal with, while England-France has Arles, Norway-Scotland and the Irish, which is marginally better. How badly were the crusader losses? How badly is the manpower pool affected? Not to mention for the English, the loss of their artillery, coupled with the loss of thousands of expert gunners and gun masters is like Lodeve all over again.
So now what? I think Arles takes the opportunity to seize Aquitane, and the English side pressures the French one to have more say to prevent a civil war. Lotharingia might fare better for a while, because I dont think Arles can take them both on (though I might be wrong), but the day the Bavarians cross the Rhine is drawing closer and closer......The Poles,funnily, while having no part in the crusade so far, are already going to be dogpiled by the Russians until Fredrick arrives. For Fredrick himself, he must we salivating at the opportunites. All his rivals are humbled, while any nation that could support them (such as England-France for Lotharingia, Denmark for North Germany) are occupied. Once Russia is dealt with.... One last thing. Who is Henry's heir? Anyway, I look forward to the inevitable showdown between Julius and Andreas! Can't wait! P.S I noticed a small mistake, rereading this TL for past details. Pope Julius should be Julius II, not I. OTLs Julius I was Pope fron 337 to 352, well before the PoD. Its actually kind of ironic, considering OTLs Julius II was known as a very militant pope in regards to secular affairs. Last edited by Alexandria Eschate; June 27th, 2012 at 03:05 PM..
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#3628
June 27th, 2012, 09:50 AM
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Manuel...
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Let's wreck the Papacy! Rome for the Romans, baby! The only way this could be better is if it was 1453. Quote:
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#3629
June 27th, 2012, 12:50 PM
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Also, a couple thoughts: 1) That's a lot of Hospitaler knights. Then again, the Order is doing well TTL, so I'll humor it (the main thing would be how many are properly "knights' and how many are sergeants of inferior status and equal equipment). 2) Frederick is a man worthy of being considered a peer to the Romans. That is an emperor who will go far. 3) Miguel.  He and Fritz are now my favorite characters still living.Yes, ahead of any of the Romans. I wonder what it says that Phillipe's fate is deemed Not Worth Asking About. Fritz must have a strong intolerance for idiots as well as meddling, shrieking priests.
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#3630
June 27th, 2012, 12:56 PM
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Its also kind of laughable how though Phillipe was the most 'romantic' (not; glorious charge, my arse!) of the Three, he gets the worst, anti-climatic ending. At least the English can spin tons of poems about Henry's glorious death, while Fredrick continues forging his legacy . Ah, well what comes around goes around, does it not? Last edited by Alexandria Eschate; June 27th, 2012 at 01:05 PM..
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#3631
June 27th, 2012, 01:02 PM
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#3632
June 27th, 2012, 01:38 PM
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#3633
June 27th, 2012, 01:46 PM
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 Not exactly a plausible thing, but definitely awesome!
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#3634
June 27th, 2012, 02:41 PM
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I'm starting to like Frederick more and more.
Let's see...uber-Russia grabs more land to the west, England-France loses territory to Arles, Lotharingia is in no position to either take on Arles or the HRE, Frederick and his badass generals consolidate power in Germany and end up setting up a powerful German state to rival Russia and Rhomania. Also, Rome falls to Andreas. I wonder what will happen should Andreas and Julius meet in person. "..." "..." "You nearly had me killed." "You had my mother and sister raped. And my mother killed. And my sister and I barely escaped with our lives." "You destroyed my hometown and my kingdom." "You called a crusade on us." "Heretic." "Bastard." Quote:
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#3635
June 27th, 2012, 02:49 PM
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beautiful update. Now it's time for Julius to meet its maker (the roman papacy may be expelled, but not with him in tow), epic scene on the horizon.
Hope to see an update covering the russian action (the thing about the rhine is for most part bragging, but hints about how the poles are doing). and Let's take a moment to admire Frederick's cunning, I already love him  . Now I could have another country to cheer for besides the roman empire, the ethiopians and the russians.I sincerely hope that the Time of Troubles won't last forty years, I don't think that the empire would be able to survive it, or at least it wouldn't fare much better the Germany in OTL's 30 years war. the Russian one OTL lasted 15 years, and it was bad enough.
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#3636
June 27th, 2012, 07:22 PM
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Sidheach: Pasta was meant as a joke, since people earlier were commenting that I must have been looking at a pasta menu when I named Alfredo. So he was just there as a gag.
Grouchio: Ja! RhoOmicronMu: From the Roman Catholic perspective, it's going to widen the rift between Avignon and Rome. From Rome's perspective, Avignon has sanctioned crusading against it. Alexandria Eschate: Crusader losses will be covered in the next update, since I couldn't find a good way to fit them in, but they are heavy. England's artillery isn't as bad a shape you might think, since though Andreas is keeping the pieces, most of the crews and masters were captured and then returned per the agreement with Frederick. Arles couldn't take on France-England and Lotharingia at the same time if they were at full strength, now it's a maybe. Henry's heir is his eldest son Edward (VII), named after Edward VI the Conqueror. As for Julius, oops. Thanks for the pointer. PlayerOne: I really enjoy MEIOU. It does require a good computer to run it, and the early game is slow until minors start getting eaten. But it's a lot of fun playing the Byzantines in 1356 and facing off against the Ottomans and their 100,000 men (they get a special 'Rising Nation' modifier at the beginning that is incredibly powerful, without it they usually field 25,000). Elfwine: Agreed. Although if Roman rule = Ottoman rule in terms of quality, Roman rule is better for the region as there's no bloody transfer of power. Only 1,000 of the charge were Hospitaliers, which I consider possible as a maximum effort. They got more prominence, both because they're cool, and it is a pivotal moment in Constantinople-Avignon relations. As for Fritz and Miguel, well, I've given the Romans stuff like vices.  Another reason why Frederick doesn't care about Philippe is that he doesn't want him back in Dijon. With Philippe gone, Lotharingia is in a regency for at least six or seven years (his heir is eight). Voyager75: I could create a Swiss Guard just for the occasion. There are Swiss mercenaries in the crusader army heading north... eliphas8: I agree! Xavier: I'm sorry, but what are elvetikoi? I googled it, but all the results were in Greek. ed_montague: It'd would be a very...interesting conversation. Of course, Andreas might just kill him on the spot. Arrix85: Thanks. Part of the next update will be backtracking to cover what the Poles and Russians, and the Russian offensive along with Rome will be the major events, with a Brihan cameo in there somewhere. The original Time of Troubles was a completely different animal than this one is shaping up to be. There an Emperor went Spanish inquisition on the Muslims and Catholics, died, his heir didn't do anything to stop it (because he was a worthless git) and then died, taking the Komnenid dynasty with him (no heirs, not the case here). As the Muslims and Catholics exploded in revolt, a bunch of generals whacked each other off in Constantinople as Ottomans, Milanese, and Austrians invaded. Until finally one general won out, smashed the Ottomans with the help of the Georgians, and then spent the next decade (after restoring the tolerance edicts) gradually squashing rebels and pushing the Milanese and Austrians out. So the end result was 10 years of persecution, 20 years of everything going south, and 10 years of clean-up.
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An Age of Miracles: The Revival of Rhomanion The Revival of Rhomaion Up to Part 11, 1502-1516 The Keys of Heaven
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#3637
June 27th, 2012, 07:51 PM
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I'm guessing Elvetikoi is a Greekization of Helvetic.
I'm really looking forward to seeing a meeting between Julius and Andreas. When you think about it, they're actually quite similar. Both have tragic backstories, and both have had their actions motivated by revenge.
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#3638
June 27th, 2012, 08:27 PM
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#3639
June 27th, 2012, 08:40 PM
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"Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master." -George Washington
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#3640
June 27th, 2012, 08:41 PM
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