Go Back   Alternate History Discussion Board > Discussion > Alternate History Discussion: After 1900

 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Prev Previous Post   Next Post Next
  #1  
Old May 28th, 2012, 12:34 AM
Christopher Marcus Christopher Marcus is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: In cyberspace
Posts: 70
WI decisive RN-HSF showdown early 1915?

I've been thinking about this timeline where von Spee decides not to raid Stanley, makes it all the way to European waters and tries to reach Germany, going north around Britain. One of Spee's last orders from Germany indicated that if he made it this far, he would have to let the HSF know so they could "cooperate" (see Robert K. Massie's "Castles of Steel").

Suppose he makes it to somewhere around the entrance to the North Sea around new year 1914/1915 and said "cooperation" ends up in a major naval battle, like Jutland, but with a more decisive outcome:

1) The Grand Fleet gets badly mauled: At least 6 or more battleships are sunk, so there is de facto parity between the HSF and the RN in the North Sea from here on. It would probably have to be some kind of super-succesful trap involving subs and mines, as they planned in OTL before Jutland, but I reckon it's at least plausible.

2) Alternatively, the HSF get's caught - say Hipper's battlecruiser force and 3 or 4 (more more) of the major battleships are sunk. In short: Whatever plan the Germans have goes horribly wrong and they end up having to fight the better part of the GF and can't get away in time. It's disaster-time for the HSF. The Kaiser nearly gets a heart attack because he allowed the Fleet to sail. Spee probably ends here, as well, his worn ships in no condition to do much.

What I'm wondering is ...

What would be the consequences for the rest of the war's progression, if this early in the war either scenario 1 or 2 happens?

As for 1) The RN would still be powerful and able to secure supply lines until the U-boats really come out, but the psychological impact would be very great. Gallipoli is probably a no go.

As for 2) Would it really matter? (Except psychologically ... ) Germany'd be forced to build more U-boats, ASAP, because now they can't even pretend to have a fleet in being that will seriously be able to threaten the GF. Maybe, in some perverse way, an early elimination of the HSF as a serious naval force would actually have Germany increase its blockade chokehold on Britain by pushing for more U-boat warfare earlier in the war. (Which might also get the US in earlier ... if they go unrestricted a year or so before OTL).

Thoughts? Comments? Is there a real game-changer in either of these scenarios?

And if not, how much worse would either scenario have to be in order to have a serious impact on the rest of the war?

Last edited by Christopher Marcus; May 31st, 2012 at 03:47 PM.. Reason: added location for Spee's homecoming, added more BB casualties for Germany
Reply With Quote
 

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 01:31 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2013, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.