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#2861
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(Of course, he finds out about this and puts her in a nunnery or sends her back to Russia in disgrace, she's not in a position to poison him.) |
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#2862
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I think that the primary use of Greek fire ITTL if it is found would be in a static defence type of thing. Roman flamethrowers set up at breaches in the walls to belch fire and prevent enemy soldiers from storming the walls.
Or on boats to burn the crap out of enemy wooden ships (that was the primary use anyways) since fast roman galleys could probably run quickly up to other enemy galleys or Purxpiphoi (or however you spell that) to burn down the large and slow ships. Or in a trebuchet to fire about 20 largish gernades over the enemy walls to create widespread fire and destruction in the city for little effort. Or put it in a large bombard-style gun to have a huge explosion of liquid fire rain over the advancing enemy rather than just hitting them to kill them. Not to mention the impact on moral this would have, it would seem like you enemy has the powers of Satan and people screaming on fire next to you would make even the most veteran soldiers shit themselves in fear. Although yeah, Greek fire is not something that you can just find in a library. IIRC the problem was that it was never written down and only known in the minds of the people who made it and handed down that way. Even then you would never know the full recipe, to prevent people from giving it away to other rival nations when paid. Even then the primary ingredients IIRC were mined in the Caucasus so the Romans would have to trade with Georgia for it. We could say that Andreas finds a part of it and hires some University student to fill in the blanks. Maybe it takes like a year or two of testing in Georgia, away from the prying eyes of Vlad, before a workable Greek Fire can be made and even longer of a wait for the Pistons that would shoot the fire like in the olden times. The part that he finds just being luck since the original POD is 1221 and there are claims of fireships being built in 1203 during the fourth crusade. So maybe someone wrote what they knew down before they died ITTL? |
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#2863
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#2864
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#2865
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We use napalm today.
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#2866
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In medieval times it was used differently. I was thinking range problems with "flamethrowers" that will be hand wieldable.
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#2867
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I like the idea of catapult-launched firebombs though. Or let's get really weird--hot air balloons? A continuously-burning bit of Greek fire could be used to heat air as lifting gas. |
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#2868
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I like the idea of fireballs flying through the air from a catapult, or somehow from a cannon.
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#2869
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Some kind of incendiary shell a la modern-day napalm bomb might be doable. |
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#2870
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That would be devastating to use in battle, especially against enemies who have never encountered it before.
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#2871
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Greek Fire was also a chemical reaction apparently so you can't put it out using water. Only by mixing it with another chemical, snuffing out the oxygen, or waiting for the chemicals to burn off so that water will work.
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#2872
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Greek fire was quite known and used (not sure if it was the exact formula though) even in the 100 years War, in the form of fireballs thrown by a trebuchet.
The Byzantines used it in three forms: 1. As a load of flamethrowers, in use on boats and fortified walls. It seems there was a pump and a "siphon", which could throw the burning liquid at about 40-60 meters, much like modern flamethrowers. http://el.wikipedia.org/wiki/%CE%91%...skylitzes1.jpg 2. Loaded in ceramic vessels which were thrown either by hand or catapults. http://el.wikipedia.org/wiki/%CE%91%...des_Chania.jpg 3. In a kind of firearm, called "strepton", the most unknown weapon of the kind. While some believe it was a small single-use flamethrower (something like a flamethrowing panzerfaust), most researchers agree that it was closer to firearm, in the sense that the greek fire was in that case used as the thrusting substance for a metal sphere or -most likely- a dart. Their point is that as far as we know from the sources and experiments (mainly those by Mr Corres) the Greek Fire was consisted by naphtha, resin and saltpeter, which is very close to gunpowder, and had similar properties when set of fire in a closed chamber. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ha...lumination.jpg The point is that while after the Arabs conquered Egypt and Syria-Palestine, they had found the rough consistency of the Greek Fire, and that was widespread even to western Europe, they had not discovered the exact recipe, which was known only by the Byzantines who kept this secret so successfuly that even nowadays, despite the progress of history and chemistry, we are not sure of the exact formula of the Greek Fire... |
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#2873
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I'm wondering if the marriage of Kristina with Ladislaus is gonna hasten an Hungarian-Russian move against the Polish with the consequences of giving the Permians some breathing room, with the Russians looking west.
I guess it's gonna be in the hand of Ladislaus, if he wants to secure the duchy (forgot the name) on his northern border for his (supposed)heir. For the russia the alliance is just a balancing act, so not much twitchy fingers for the Megas Rigas (unless he really wants now the lands of the teutonic order). |
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#2874
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Tongera: Avignon won't declare a crusade; it would annoy Arles which has lots of trading contacts with Constantinople. And Julius is still suffering from the backlash from the Black Day and the Venetian Mamelukes. But a Byzantium beating up Aragon-Sicily could give Julius the talking points he needs.
Tapirus Augustus: But would Andreas be willing to wait that long? Ladislaus is 46; he could last another 30 years. Of course, Andreas has assassins. Avitus: Thanks. ![]() Xavier: At this point, Alexandria's population after all the city has been through in the last decade is only 30,000. So 1/12th of the pop is part of the garrison. But really the main thing protecting the city is the knowledge in Cairo that the Levant will get flattened if the Mamelukes touch Alexandria. And Kristina wouldn't kill Ladislaus just for not being Andreas. But if he tried to attack Andreas though, she very well might try. Elfwine: Bad things will come, although I personally think Andreas has had far more than his fair share of them. MerryPrankster: In Kristina's mind, in a fight between Andreas and Ladislaus, Ladislaus loses every single time. Ladislaus doesn't know that though. Regarding Maria and patricide, an interesting thought occurred to me. By herself as regent for Demetrios, she'd be pretty vulnerable since everyone would be thinking 'Maria of Barcelona' and freaking out. But if Anastasia was taken out, that'd eliminate the main not-her option. So Andreas, Maria, and Vlad share something in common; they want Anastasia dead. I made a few comments about Andreas and books. When Manuel informed Andreas his father was dead, Andreas was 'as usual, reading a book and taking notes'. And in the 'I need a war' scene, Andreas had a copy of his grandfather's work on generalship next to him. M79: Sounds like fun to me. ![]() Ze Kaisar: Vlad definitely wants Anastasia dead, and he already has orders ready to be sent as soon as Alexios is dead. As for Naples, they won't enter the war unless the Empire starts losing badly. They have recent memories of bashing their heads futilely against Bari, and without allies a Roman counter-offensive would squish them. Arrix85: I want a Greek fire revival because it's quintessentially Byzantine and cool, but the most-famous variant with the siphon pump is now obsolete. A purxiphoi with its cannons would blast the fireship out of the water well before it got in range of the flamethrowers. Catapults/grenades though might be feasible. Dragos Cel Mare: It's not the end of Kashmir, just a very bad time. Arrix85: Yeah, the Hungarian-Russian alliance is more the Hungarians' idea. The Megas Rigas likes it more because it does a good job of securing their western border. Regarding Greek fire: I want a Greek fire revival because it's quintessentially Byzantine and cool, but the most-famous variant with the siphon pump is now obsolete. A purxiphoi with its cannons would blast the fireship out of the water well before it got in range of the flamethrowers. Catapults/grenades though might be feasible, since the range issue isn't big there. And I love the Greek fire-hot air ballon idea.
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An Age of Miracles: The Revival of Rhomanion The Revival of Rhomaion Up to Part 11, 1502-1516 The Keys of Heaven |
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#2875
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Thanks, Basileus.
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#2876
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How long will it be until Ladislaus finds out "his" kid isn't actually his?
Unless Andreas looks a lot like young Ladislaus or little Andrew takes mostly after his mom, suspicions are going to rise as he gets older. |
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#2877
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Dragos Cel Mare: You're welcome.
MerryPrankster: There's already some suspision by Hungarians who have done the math and aren't satisfied, but Ladislaus isn't hearing it. But I do like the idea of a Arpad-Komnenos, and I'm actually fiddling with the idea of Andrew's parentage actually being discovered when his (Andrew's) son is Emperor of Hungary. "We are Romans. It is a name that is synonymous with law, order, civilization. It is in that spirit, and in the example shown by our ancestors that I made these changes. For if I did not, we would be no better than dogs or Venetians, and that I will not countenance."-Andreas Komnenos, excerpt from The History of My Reign 1462: Both Vlad and Andreas immediately throw themselves into planning for the war. Vlad’s proposal is for a massive assault, consisting of the entire Imperial fleet, currently eighty six warships strong, including fourteen purxiphoi, along with the Epirote, Macedonian, and Thracesian tagmata, plus the Varangoi and Athanatoi, a total of thirty four thousand men (if the formations were at full strength it would be forty thousand-note that both the guard regiments are at full strength, an unique status) without the fleet. It would be under the overall command of Vlad. Andreas immediately protests to this arrangement, pointing out that since Vlad is regent, his place is at the capitol, or at least in a position where he cannot be cut off from Constantinople. Instead he suggests that he go with those forces, minus the Thracesian tagma in order to alleviate supply issues. What will truly matter in this fight is the quality of the Imperial fleet, not so much the army, if all goes to plan. And it is of high quality. While construction on the Imperial Arsenal had been halted during the siege of Constantinople and the work site seized by the allied army, all of the equipment had been moved inside the city and survived. Thus construction was able to resume quite rapidly, and although the great shipyard is still as of yet incapable of producing any vessels, it has repaired and refitted every single ship in the Imperial fleet. Plus its guncasting and powder-making facilities, designed to provide the entire navy’s needs in those regards, are fully operational. As a result, even though the fleet still falls short of its preferred strength of one hundred ships, with twenty purxiphoi, it is a very powerful force, in far better shape than any of the tagma (the best is the Helladic, at 82% strength). Another feature that makes them more effective in battle is an innovation that dates from the Demetrian military reforms of the late 1430s. At that time, the two-section system whereby men were rotated between full-time and reserve status, was ended. Instead three-fifths of the fleet’s manpower pool had been turned into full-time sailors and marines stationed in Constantinople, where part of their pay was in the form of rent-free housing for themselves and their families. Meanwhile the remainder were turned into reservists receiving no pay but only paying half-taxes, although there the lack of money to maintain training for these units meant that by the early 1460s, their quality had declined substantially. In effect the navy had gone the way of the army, sacrificing trained reserves in exchange for a more capable initial core. A side effect of this was that the Imperial fleet was firmly in Andreas’ camp. Although the sailors themselves had been serving in the Levant during the siege, their families had been in the city, and thus support Andreas (which also gives Andreas the favor of the Alexandrian archontate, one thousand full-time soldiers who had originally been part of Constantinople’s civic militia during the siege), something that would not have been possible under Anna I’s setup with half the men and all of the families stationed in the provinces. The lands that provided the estates under the old arrangement still remain outside the tagma-theme system, their taxes providing the funds for the professional fleet. Vlad is suspicious, but Andreas points out that if Demetrios is going to be secure on the throne he is going to need ‘a strong father, not just a strong grandfather’. Besides, he is taking both the Macedonian and Epirote tagmata, both of whose strategoi are loyal to Vlad. The argument is cut short when news arrives from a Genoese Modon trader that Ferdinand has moved. Malta is under siege; there is no more time. As this is going on, efforts are made to secure the eastern front against the Ottomans. On March 15, Irene Komnena marries Prince Mikeli Bagrationi of Georgia, second son of Georgia’s new king, David VII. Konstantin II had died peacefully in his sleep at his new palace in Baku last September, mourned by all his people. Andreas had originally not moved to marry off Zoe’s twin for fear of hurting his sister, but relations between the twins has declined recently. Irene has always favored her older sister Anastasia, so it is also hoped that by sending her to Tbilisi it will prevent her from doing any political damage to Andreas in the Empire. The Athanatoi and Varangoi board the Imperial fleet, but they do not stop in Thessaloniki to rendezvous with the Macedonians and Epirotes as planned. Instead they stop in Monemvasia, in the Helladic tagma (whose strategos is as yet uncommitted) for supplies and the latest intelligence reports, before pushing on for Messina. Four monores peel off from the armada to summon the Apulian tagma, along with the Bari squadron. Andreas is planning to take the island of Sicily with twenty thousand men, the men he knows he can trust. While the summoning of Alfredo and his men leaves Apulia wide open to Neapolitan attack, Naples stays its hand. They are still very wary of Roman power, and so will not intervene unless it becomes clear the Romans are losing. Another reason for staying out appears in early April, when the Duchies of Ancona and Urbino both sign defensive alliance pacts with the Roman Empire. All three parties agree to treat any Neapolitan, Papal, or Venetian attack on any of them as an attack on all. The Aragonese fleet, numbering seventy eight ships, is caught completely off guard by the Roman landing. It had been deployed to defend the forces besieging Malta, which is holding out stubbornly despite the five-hundred-strong (a new formation, a half-archontate) garrison’s numerical inferiority of over twenty to one. Andreas had also dispatched several monores as blockade runners to encourage that deployment. The Marinid siege fifteen years earlier had done much to show the weak points of the Hospitalier fortresses, which have since been rectified. One new feature of Malta’s defenses is that key points outside the citadels have had their distances to the gun towers measured beforehand, so powder does not have to be wasted on ranging shots. Although Andreas has yet to be joined by the Apulian tagma, and only has the two guard regiments, Messina falls in a night. Although the city is taken by assault and not surrender, the liberties of the Roman soldiery are limited by a new decree. Any soldier found guilty of rape is to be castrated, and any officer who willfully fails to enforce this decree is to suffer the same fate. Andreas also takes other measures, although less drastic, to safeguard the lives of the women and children. His orders are that ‘all the possessions of the city are to go to the troops (Andreas foregoes his own share to encourage cooperation), but the buildings and people are to remain inviolate, save those who bear arms, for Messina is now a Roman city, and its inhabitants Roman people’. While there are incidents, including several rapes, they stop when Andreas proves he is not bluffing. On April 19, the day after Messina’s fall, sixteen Roman soldiers are publicly castrated in full view of both the army and Messina’s people. The act is ended by a public announcement to the soldiers that ‘you have had your night, your right as victorious soldiers, but this is a Roman city now. Any soldier who steals will be charged as a thief.’ Once he is finished, Andreas goes to the jewelers’ district, finds a storeowner who managed to hide some of his wares, and purchases several broaches for Zoe. The Athanatoi and Varangoi remain in Messina for a week, Andreas planning his next moves, gathering more supplies from the countryside (which he scrupulously makes sure are paid for, either with cash or tax exemptions), and also making clear to the Sicilians his plan for their future as members of the Empire. A handful of churches are seized and established as Orthodox churches, but eighty percent, including the cathedral, remain Catholic. The bishop is confirmed in his rights and duties, and an understanding that in the event of an Orthodox bishop of Messina, neither will have any jurisdiction over churches, clergy, or adherents belonging to the other creed. This is toleration granted to Roman Catholics, which is even more grating to Rhomanian minds than the concessions in Apulia. But Sicily has steadfastly remained loyal to Rome ever since the Schism began almost eighty years earlier, and is unlikely to stop now. Unlike in Apulia, the Sicilians do not have a recent grievance with Julius. But for now Andreas can afford to ignore this issue. He has given his soldiers victory, and for now that is all they care about. As April ends, Andreas marches, but as he heads for Palermo, he receives ominous news. The Sicilian levies are concentrating, far more rapidly than he expected. At Cefalu he is challenged by their fully assembled might, fifteen thousand to his ninety five hundred. The Romans immediately backpedal, the Sicilians pursuing, but after their forced marches they are already tired. Andreas sends waves of turkopouloi at them, stinging the Sicilians with arrows and also taunting their manhood, or lack thereof, as well as the quality of their womenfolk in the Romans’ beds, when they get the chance. Enraged, the levies charge after the light horsemen. As soon as they spot the Roman army, anchored on a low rise east of Cefalu, the Sicilian army whips itself into a furious, pell-mell charge. The turkopouloi fall back, the Sicilian knights chasing after them, only to run into caltrops. The knightly charge shatters as rearward horses plow into their crippled predecessors, until some realize that the Roman cavalry are retreating only down special lanes in the caltrop fields. They follow these lanes, and discover that Andreas had pre-positioned his cannons on them. What is left of the Sicilian cavalry is smashed flat. Fearful of the carnage in front of them and buffeted by the panicked cavalry survivors, the levy infantry is shakey at best. When the skutatoi plow into them, though their charge is disjointed by the need to navigate around the caltrops (followed by workmen clearing as many as possible for the next phase), they break. Andreas commits as much of his cavalry as he can maneuver through the spiky fields, completing the rout. The Sicilians suffer over twenty three hundred casualties, mostly cavalry, while the rest of the army is effectively destroyed, many of the infantry throwing down their arms in flight and hightailing back to their fields. The Romans take less than three hundred casualties, mostly caused by long-range crossbow fire, and only forty fatalities. Many in the army proclaim it a second Ain Sijni. Despite the victory, Palermo, Sicily’s chief city with forty five thousand inhabitants, prepares to resist, but instead capitulates when Alfredo arrives and doubles the size of Andreas’ army. In less than four weeks the Romans have taken all of northern Sicily, as well as the island’s two greatest cities. After spending five days in Palermo, which is left with a garrison of 500 men, Andreas heads southwest, moving around the coast. His plan is to move counter-clockwise around the island, securing the shoreline before taking the rugged interior. * * * Roman Camp, west of Palermo, May 15, 1462: Ioannes growled as the slop landed in his wooden bowl. “Still haven’t found any food, have you, Manuel?” The hairy cook shrugged his fat shoulders, his belly wobbling back and forth. “Shut up. Do you want your bread?” “Yes.” A snarl. A moment later a hunk landed in the slop. A maggot peaked out at him. “I thought we were supposed to get fresh provisions!” The speaker was the one next in line after Ioannes, a skinny one, probably a new toxota. Ioannes didn’t know who he was, and he couldn’t tell since his hood was up. “I was the one supposed to get fresh provisions,” Manuel said. A laugh. Spittle. “I didn’t hear anything about you getting any though.” “But-” “Listen, you’re obviously new, so I’ll let you off this time. But from now on, shut up, or you won’t get anything. Oh, and don’t try to kill me. I have a few officer friends who wouldn’t take too kindly to something like that.” “This isn’t right!” the man continued. “Fresh provisions are to go to combat soldiers, not sold on the side while we eat pig swill!” “Fine! You don’t like it, then don’t eat it! You want to complain, go to the Emperor!” The man jerked down his hood, revealing a tanned, bony face covered in a short but thick light-brown beard. “I AM THE EMPEROR, YOU GODLESS HEATHEN! ANDRONIKOS, LORENZO! SEIZE THIS MAN!” Two eikosarchoi that had been lounging in the back, officers Ioannes had assumed were some of Manuel’s friends, moved. Before the cook could waddle away, muscled hands were clamping down on his shoulders. “By the power vested in me by God Almighty, I, Andreas, first of that name, Emperor of the Romans, find you, Manuel of Matapan, guilty of extortion and embezzling army property. For this crime I sentence you to be executed by decapitation, judgment to be carried out immediately.” He gestured at Manuel’s stores. “And get rid of this.” “What are we supposed to eat?!” a soldier in the back of the line shouted. Andreas pointed to several wagons camped two hundred meters to the west. A faint scent of oranges drifted over. “My provisions. Fresh bread, fruit, mutton, wine, Sicilian but it’s the best that’s available, and even some sugar pastries. They’re all yours.” “Your majesty, what are you going to eat?” Ioannes asked. Andreas held out his hand. “May I?” He pointed at Manuel’s bowl of slop and maggoty bread. “No sense in letting it all go to waste. Now go, eat. You men deserve it.” * * * Meanwhile the Roman and Aragonese fleets battle, both sides acquitting themselves with skill and courage. The Roman advantage in numbers and more recent refits is counterbalanced by the greater proximity to Aragonese naval bases, particularly Agrigento, which is now Andreas’ next target. But the need to secure his new conquests slows his march, and on May 24 the fleets again clash off Syracuse. It is a calm day, a very calm day. Without any wind, it proves impossible to move the purxiphoi without towing, so the Aragonese are able to close without being subjected to the usual hail of cannon fire. In the two hour melee that follows, the Romans have the worst off it, although as evening comes the wind picks up and they are able to retire. * * * Roman Camp, near Trapani, May 28, 1462: Manuel looked at his emperor. Andreas was seated on a plain wooden chair, his now-leathery-tanned right arm resting on a pile of military treatises. He could see the Strategikon, as well as works by Nikephoros Phokas, Theodoros Megas, and Demetrios Megas. “How bad is it?” Andreas asked. “Bad,” Lorenzo reported. “One purxiphos captured, along with six other vessels. Five more sent to the bottom. About two thousand casualties. It’ll be at least three weeks before the fleet will be ready for action again, and now the Aragonese will have the advantage in numbers.” “I don’t like this,” Andreas said. Manuel saw Lorenzo opening his mouth to say ‘how could you not not like this?’ He shook his head. ‘Not now.’ “So far the Aragonese have been cautious in using their ships, and then all of a sudden they come straight at us. They weren’t willing to take us head-on even when we were approaching Palermo, but now… They’re up to something, something big.” ![]() Emperor Andreas Komnenos in the field, image taken from Ep. 18, Sicily Andronikos poked his head into the tent. “Your majesty, the Andalusi envoy is here.” “Bring him in,” Andreas ordered. Two Andalusi galleys had made landfall at Trapani the day before, carrying a representative who said he had urgent news for the Emperor of the Romans. Andronikos lifted the flap, and a second later the man entered. He wore a white turban, reportedly the latest fashion in Cordoba, which contrasted heavily with his brown skin, and a red silk robe. Manuel squinted; the face looked familiar. “I bring greetings from Mohammed al-Hasan ibn Abu, Lord of al-Andalus, to his imperial majesty, Andreas, Emperor of the Romans.” “We welcome these greetings, and look forward to the news he has sent us.” “Of course, your majesty. As you must know, my lord has numerous spies in the court of Ferdinand, and they have come in possession of news that is of great import both to my master and to your majesty. The king is no longer in Barcelona.” “And where is he?” “He is coming here, to Sicily.” “So that is why they came right at us,” Manuel heard Andreas whisper. The Emperor then raised his voice. “Your master would not happen to know how many soldiers he is bringing with him, would he?” “Forty thousand.” “What?!” Lorenzo exclaimed. “That is ridiculous! Ferdinand can’t possibly have such an army!” Andreas held up his hand to silence the eikosarchos. “We quite agree. Not even the Grand Army of Castile reached such a size. Aragon cannot field such a force, not without help. How many?” “Fifteen thousand Castilians, hired as mercenaries, but with the understanding that in the event of Aragonese victory, the sugar and silk trade concessions in Castile will also be removed.” Andreas looked at Lorenzo. “All of the monores are still combat-ready, correct?” “Yes, your majesty.” “Good. I want them out patrolling the western approaches yesterday. And I want turkopouloi watching every stretch of coast from here to Syracuse. They’ll most likely make for Agrigento. See to it. Go.” Lorenzo left the tent. “Now that that is taken care of, I have another question,” Andreas said. “I am to place myself at your disposal,” the envoy replied. “Your face looks familiar. Have we met?” “No, your majesty. But you have met some of my family.” “How so?” “I am Leo Drakos, son of Vlad Dracula, older brother of Maria. You should be quite happy to be married to her.” Andreas’ face tightened. “And why is that?” “Because a year with her takes a century off of purgatory.” Andreas grinned. “You know your sister well. How did you come to be an Andalusi envoy?” “I am a painter, and my skills became known to the Lord, who asked for me to come to his court. That was in 1453, and I have been there since. When it became time for this mission, I was chosen, not only for the fact that my Greek is fluent, but also because my relation to your imperial majesty has made me somewhat of a political inconvenience.” “How so?” “Having the Roman Emperor’s brother-in-law as a member of Cordoba’s court makes Marrakesh’s look poorly by comparison, which has led to…tensions. It also has concerned the Catholic powers.” “We understand. Does that mean you wish to return to the Empire upon completion of your assignment?” “I do, your majesty. If you would allow it, of course. The Lord of al-Andalus is eager to improve relations with Marrakesh. My wife and all our possessions are in the ships we took.” Andreas smiled, crookedly this time. “You may. An Andalusi woman for a wife. I hear they are quite beautiful.” That caused Manuel to frown. Andreas had already picked out a favorite camp follower, Theophano, and tried two more. It was a miracle that he hadn’t sired any bastards yet. “They are, your majesty.” Lorenzo entered the tents. “The orders have been issued, Emperor.” “Good. Now summon the strategoi. We need to plan a suitable reception for the king’s arrival.”
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An Age of Miracles: The Revival of Rhomanion The Revival of Rhomaion Up to Part 11, 1502-1516 The Keys of Heaven Last edited by Basileus444; May 29th, 2012 at 02:29 AM.. |
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#2878
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Andreas rocks. And I like how even Maria's own siblings don't like her much either.
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#2879
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Yes, I know. It seems that he's well on his way to fulfilling the objectives of his war.
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#2880
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how is he invading from the north of Sicily? isnt it easier to invade in the south?
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