Triple Alliance TL

[Germania09]

This as usual is great As for the Hungary I'm sure the Magyar menace can be solved with a enough troops

[abc123]

Originally Posted by Germania09

This as usual is great As for the Hungary I'm sure the Magyar menace can be solved with a enough troops

The trouble is to do that in a constitutional and legal way. Because Habsburgs have given a oath to respect the Constitution of Hungary.

[Germania09]

Originally Posted by abc123

The trouble is to do that in a constitutional and legal way. Because Habsburgs have given a oath to respect the Constitution of Hungary.

Where's the a will (and dynastic self interest) there's a way

[abc123]

Originally Posted by Germania09

Where's the a will (and dynastic self interest) there's a way

OK, then you find me a way.

[abc123]

Agriculture in the eastern provinces of Prussia was to a high degree based on large-area manors (often repositioned from their formerly Polish owners) and run by German junkers, who employed thousands of migrating Poles from the Russian and Austrian part of partitioned Poland. Also, the growing industrial region of Upper Silesia attracted workers from economically backward areas. At the same time, parts of the local German and Polish population migrated in search of work to more industrialized western areas of Germany (Ostflucht). Although no anti-German political activity among the Polish migrants was ever noted, the resulting increase of the Polish population alarmed nationalist German circles, including Germany's chancellor Otto von Bismarck.

On 26 March 1885, the ministry of internal affairs of Prussia ordered its provincial authorities to expel abroad all ethnic Poles and Jews holding Russian citizenship. In July 1885, the expulsion order was extended to include Polish Austrian citizens also. Additionally, the authorities were obliged to watch, that in the future no "undesirable foreigners" would settle on those territories.

The order was executed upon all non-Prussian citizens regardless of their long term residence or previous service in the Prussian Army, and despite their state of health, age or sex. The expellees were "driven in mass towards the eastern border under blows of gendarmes' rifle butts". Fatal incidents were being reported, as the expulsions were carried in winter time. In the initial months nearly 26,000 persons were expelled from eastern provinces of Prussia, mainly workers and craftsmen employed there.

The expulsions resulted in an outcry among the public opinion of Poland, Germany and Europe. Field Marchall Alfred von Waldersee, who in principle agreed to the necessity of the expulsions, admitted to their "incredible harshness" (German: unglaubliche Härte) in individual cases. Schweinitz, then German ambassador in Russia said, upon reflection: When some day the great chancellor resigns, then many people will feel ashamed and they will mutually reproach themselves with the meanness of their grovelling before his mighty will. I am touched at the most by the unwise and to no purpose cruel order of the expulsions.


Konstantyn Gorsky: Prussian deportations

The expulsions had been met with disapproval inside the government circles of Russia. Count Dmitry Tolstoy, a conservative, and the minister of internal affairs who tried to procure a plausible reception for those events in Russia, acknowledged Otto von Bismarck's anti-Polish sentiment and unofficially gave ambassador Schweinitz his advise that Bismarck had committed a grave mistake, as such extreme measures were unnecessary. Also Nikolay Giers, the minister of foreign affairs of Russia, stated that Bismarck – by his own conduct – had aggravated already hostile feelings existing towards German colonists in Russia, had set a bad example to be followed, and had spread the seeds of new ethnic antagonisms in the future.

Russia wasn't very concerned because of Poles and Jews, but after all, they were subjects of Russian Empire. Also, as count Giers said to German ambassador: "Why do you return our Poles to us? We have them more than enough. We don't know what to do with them even without this thousands who will now have no means for living, most probably will not be able to find a job in Poland, will be discontent with evreything and we will have to increase our security precautions because another Polish rebellion is now more probable than before this. And all of this is your responsability!"

All of that didn't improve relations between Germany and Russia allready strained because of customs dispute.

[abc123]

I should really continue with this TL.

[Germania09]

Originally Posted by abc123

I should really continue with this TL.

yeah its great

[Josephus]

You really, really should.

[abc123]

Thanks for the kind words guys, I hope that I will find enough time to write a update by the end of week.
Since I have another TL to write it is really hard to find enough time...

[yourworstnightmare]

You better continue it now when you bumped the thread.

[abc123]

Originally Posted by yourworstnightmare

You better continue it now when you bumped the thread.

Yep, it seems that I have no other choice.

[Griffin]

I hope you do. I've found it quite enjoyable.

[abc123]

Originally Posted by Griffin

I hope you do. I've found it quite enjoyable.

Well, when I see that my TL is the cause of your first post on AH.com than I'm certainly obliged to continue.
Maybe tomorrow afternoon, if no RL obligations. If not tomorrow, than in Monday.


Stay with us.

[abc123]

Gatchina Palace

Czar of Russia Alexander II and his Heir Grand Prince Nicholas decided to hold a meeting with his ministers about some things that needed to be done. Now, as autumn was here and buissness was as normal in St. Petersburg and in other capitals in the world, they decided to try implement some new ideas.

Czar Alexander: Sit down, gentlemen. I'm happy that you are here. Grand Prince Nicholas approached me with an idea how to try to solve our trade dispute with Germany. Son, can you explain to them?

GP Nicholas: Certainly Your Majesty. Gentlemen, the main thing in my proposal is that we propose to Germany that we will give her special privileges in our customs rules but in exchange German banks and capital will fund construction of Transsibereran railway.

Prince Gorchakov: Intresting idea Your Highness. It might even work. But, we should not try to look weak, or Germans will have no end in their demands.

Count Giers: I agree with Chancellor. We must not give them big concessions, at least at the beginning. We could offer to them lower rates of customs duties for products made in Germany, but not much lower. Say 4% instead 5% in first year, 8% instead 10% in second etc. Otherwise, the whole point of introducing of customs duties would be failed.

Czar Alexander: I agree gentlemen. So you agree with the plan, yes?

Prince Gorchakov: Yes, but we still have to make plans for negotiations, where we will give concessions and what are our non-negotiable positions, so that will take some time.

Count Giers: I agree with Chancellor, it will take some time, but after that we could try.

Czar Alexander: Allright gentlemen, so we have a agreement. Prince Gorchakov, you and Count Giers will elaborate negotiation strategy and in 2 or 3 weeks you will finish it. After that, when I see the proposal, you can contact the Germans to see what they say about that, so that we can start with negotiations in a month or two.

[abc123]

Imperial War Ministry Building, St. Petersburg

General Staff of Imperial Russian Army, Department of Military Intelligence

Colonel Nikolay Przhevalsky sat in chair afront of Director of Military Intelligence General Vassilievsky.

General: Colonel, the purpose of this new expedition of yours is to try reach Lhasa and to made contact with Dalai Lama. You are perfectly aware how scarce our, and in general, Western knowledge about that part of world is. Dzungharia, Mongolia, Takla Makan reservoir and especially Tibet are one of the last areas of world where European foot didn't step. And we, Russians have excellent opportunity to be nation that will explore, and even maybe colonise and ciilise those areas.
But for that, we need good informations.
So, while this expedition will definitly try to collect all possible datas and informations about the area, I don't have to telling you that you have to be aware of attempts of British to take this area for themselves.

Colonel: Of course, I'm well aware of that. And I'm of opinion that Russia could easily conquer these areas. They are sparsely populated and Russia has the best conditions to take them. Chinese are weak and British are behind Himalayas. We should act decisevly and take these areas while we still can. We missed the opportunity to take Dzhungaria few years ago and we shouldn't miss our next chance.

General: That descision isn't on us to take Colonel, but I understand what you want to say. And be sure that I will inform those on higher positions about your views.
But, for now, our job is to collect informations that will enable our descision-makers to do their job.
So, in short, as you could read in that document, you will go in Karakol and from there you will cross into Takla Makan area and from there you will head southeast into Tibet, as far as you can. If you encounter strong resistance, you are authorised to change route or retreat, if necesarry. Do not try any agressive moves that could endanger your expedition. Informations that you will collect are too important for us, so it is better to come back with little informations than not come back at all and lose good researchers for nothing.
If you suceed to reach Dalai Lama or his representatives, tell him that Russia is intrested in all sorts of cooperation with Tibet and that primary goal of Russia is independence of Tibet. Tell him that Russia is ready to support independence of Tibet, with money, modern weapons etc. providing that Tibet is neutral buffer between us and British in India.
You will get significant amount of money to buy yourself way into Lhasa, if possible.

Do you have any questions Colonel?

Colonel: No General.

General: Excellent. Than, allow me to tell you goodspeed in my name and in name of our Imperial master and that we will eagerly wait for your return.


Colonel Przhevalsky

[abc123]

Winter Palace


As new elections for Zemsky Sobor were near ( less than a year ) Czar recieved leaders of parties in Sobor in audience in Winter Palace. This was one of rare opportunities for people of Sankt Petersburg t see their Czar. After adressing the Czar and praising his reformatory and libertarian spirit leaders of Constitutional Democrats and Peasant Party presented the Czar with proposal that new Zemsky Sobor that should be elected in next elections should also bring first Constitution for Russian Empire.

Czar responded that he will consider their proposal but that current system in his opinion is yet young so more time is necesarry to be able to see good or bad sides of current system and only then to think about possible changes.
Czar also said that he is pleased that current Zemsky Sobor had sucessfully cooperated with his Government and brought many important reforms. He expressed his hope and expectation that such cooperation will remain strong in the future too.

Czar was not amused with their demand and moreso with their timing. They had allmost turned this big celebratory audience into one of their Sobor discussions. But Crown Prince Nicolas said to him that something like that could be expected to happen: "We have let the Ghost from the bottle and it would be impossible to get it back now!"
Czar responded: "Hmm, yes, it seems so. Maybe Alexander was right when he was against all of this!"
But Nicholas said: "I don't agree. If we disregard this what happened today, and really, what else could we expect from CONSTITUTIONAL Democrats and better to deal with them than with those damn Socialists, in my opinion we set the right course, because this was inevitable and it is better for us to give representation, and one day Constitution to the people, than to be forced to do that."
Czar said: "Well my son, maybe youre right, I don't know any more."

[abc123]

No comments?

[lukedalton]

Originally Posted by abc123

No comments?

That's is good you have restarted the thread, i actually re-read the bullk to remember better the situation...please continue.
Plus the great game seem to expand

[yourworstnightmare]

A Constitution is the last thing the Czars would want. But they might be forced to give in. The more they give the more the political parties would demand. And with the left being a danger to the Czar, the last thing they want is to make enemies with the right wing parties too.

[abc123]

Thanks for the comments.

I agree with your opinion.

BTW. I finished update in my other TL, but unfortunately server error "eat" it up... And I forget to save it before that.