WI- The French Revolution Happened 30 years earlier?

[Abhakhazia]

1712- The baby that would become Fredrick the Great dies.
1740- Apon the death of the king of Prussia, 14 year old Heinrich is declared king his oldest sister as his regent.
1745- Wilhelmine declares herself Queen of Prussia, start of Prussian civil war.
1757- End of Prussian Civil War with Wilhelmine's assissination.
1758- The French Government starts an enormous spending spree of the backs of the people, taxing extra to build palaces. Tensions grow high.
1759- A new form of government called "Radical Republicanism" grows on the back streets of Paris. Auguste Camain, a previously unknown Parisian writes The Radical Manifesto. He calls for Equality for All and for the destruction of the Church.
1760- French Revolution in Paris, overthrow of the king
• 1763- The Treaty of Toulouse: Bourbons allowed to be exiles in Quebec
• 1775- Pennsylvania Colony in America revolts and is easily put down
• 1777- Conservatives tries to overthrow the Radical Republican government from their base in Lyon
• 1778- French Blue Army, disturbed by Conservative coup retakes Quebec
• 1780- The British unify the 13 colonies and Indian Territory to make the Dominion of America and unify Nova Scotia, New Brunswick, Newfoundland and Labrador to make the Dominion of Newfoundland
• 1782- French create Dominion of Louisiana to counter British solidification
• 1788- French unexpectedly take control of Spanish Florida and Santo Domingo
• 1790- French invade Georgia in the American Dominion. Start of Quebec war.
• May 1791- British attack Louisiana’s capital, Nouveau Orleans by amphibious landing
• August 1791- British “storm the Mississippi” taking most of inhabited Louisiana including Saint Louis
• September 1791- The Blue Army attacks Vermont where they seize on local separatist movements
• December 1791- The Vermont Militia, known as the Green Mountain Men help the French survive the winter of 1791-1792
• February 1792- Even with the help of the Green Mountain men the French army catches a disease and is greatly weakened, allowing the British to reroute them back to Quebec.
• April 1792- The Floréal Offensive, the French take most of Hudson’s Bay Company
• January 1793- British take all of Louisiana. French now occupy Jamaica and Cuba and are absorbing the lesser Antilles- the Caribbean Theatre begins
• June 1793- After retaking Hudson Bay, Canada reaches stalemate. Quebec Fleet transferred to Saint Dominique
• August 1793- British take Florida and move fleet to Nouveau Paris (Miami)
• March 1794- British take Quebec City, ending war
• June 1794- Treaty of Vienna: French keep Quebec but lose Louisiana, Missouri, Arkansas and Florida
• 1800- The Dominion of Canada and the Dominion of Oregon created
• 1804- Slavery is declared illegal in the British Empire, causing riots among the white ruling class in Mississippi, Georgia and South Carolina. British create the Negro Protection Army of mainly blacks as a full unit of the British Army with equal rights and no segregation
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More to Come!

[Xgentis]

What caused the early revolution?

[Zeldar155]

Originally Posted by Xgentis

What caused the early revolution?

Indeed, you can't just have random revolutions.
Reading through this one more time and I noticed this: Conservatives tries to overthrow the Socialists. Socialism did not exist in the 1700's, if it does here, it should be under a different name, and you need to explain how it came to be so early.

[LOTLOF]

The successful American Revolution was a huge inspiration to French Republicans. The massive debts of aiding the colonists also caused the economic crisis and the calling of the Estates General.

With out the American revolution to draw from would there be any republican sentiment? Would the revolution instead aim at putting a new king on the throne and creating a limited monarchy where the nobility held most of the real power similar to the British model?

If France is not in a position to aid the Americans the revolution may very well fail. The twentieth century may be a world where monarchy is still preferred form of government.

[jkarr]

plus whose to say they get rid of the monarchy earlier?
in fact the monarchy was fairly popular before the whole economic crash....my guess is theyd simply force him to accept a goverments like great brtiian...one that can act independetly of the king, whilst using him as a figurehead

[DrakeRlugia]

Originally Posted by jkarr

plus whose to say they get rid of the monarchy earlier?
in fact the monarchy was fairly popular before the whole economic crash....my guess is theyd simply force him to accept a goverments like great brtiian...one that can act independetly of the king, whilst using him as a figurehead

Louis XVI was popular. Louis XV himself was reviled; birth of public opinion in France came from Louis XV handing back Belgium to the Austrians, with Parisians coming up with the saying "Stupid as the peace." Louis XV and the family in general were revilved for her way of life and expensive living. His death was a relief, in many ways. But his time as king represented the birth of public opinion in France. There were critics, but none who yet wanted a complete break.

[Grey Wolf]

1788 did France just go to war with Spain? That would affect what comes afterwards

The IDEA of revolution is not new, just look at the Dutch and then the English Commonwealth, but it would need some sort of impetus in France in this period...

Best Regards
Grey Wolf

[Abhakhazia]

I forgot to put the new spending spree in the French Government. I'll fix that.

[Abhakhazia]

Originally Posted by Zeldar155

Indeed, you can't just have random revolutions.
Reading through this one more time and I noticed this: Conservatives tries to overthrow the Socialists. Socialism did not exist in the 1700's, if it does here, it should be under a different name, and you need to explain how it came to be so early.

I couldn't think of another name. I'll change that to "Radical Republicans". Sounds better.

[Abhakhazia]

Originally Posted by Grey Wolf

1788 did France just go to war with Spain? That would affect what comes afterwards

The IDEA of revolution is not new, just look at the Dutch and then the English Commonwealth, but it would need some sort of impetus in France in this period...

Best Regards
Grey Wolf

Well not really so much as they arrived in those places and told the garrisons to leave. The French are making superior weapons at this point. But the French ideal of Radical Republicanism is spreading through New Spain and Peru, and the Spanish are going to collapse in the mid-19th century ITTL.

Abhakhazia

[M79]

I think the 13 colonies would form three Dominions. Georgia, Carolinas, Virginia (Capital either Charlestown or Jamestown); New England (Boston), and Maryland, Delaware, Pennsylvania, New Jersey, and New York (Philadelphia). There was an attempt to make a Dominion of New England but it was not successful, and if you give these new Dominions representations in Parliament *or* allow a colonial parliament in Philadelphia it would probably resolve many of the difficulties engendered in the 1760s. France crumbling early also represents another problem, without a dynamic figure to unite the country and lead the military there is little stopping the nearby powers from invading and re-installing a new (or old) monarch minus a few border provinces for their troubles.

[Abhakhazia]

Originally Posted by M79

I think the 13 colonies would form three Dominions. Georgia, Carolinas, Virginia (Capital either Charlestown or Jamestown); New England (Boston), and Maryland, Delaware, Pennsylvania, New Jersey, and New York (Philadelphia). There was an attempt to make a Dominion of New England but it was not successful, and if you give these new Dominions representations in Parliament *or* allow a colonial parliament in Philadelphia it would probably resolve many of the difficulties engendered in the 1760s. France crumbling early also represents another problem, without a dynamic figure to unite the country and lead the military there is little stopping the nearby powers from invading and re-installing a new (or old) monarch minus a few border provinces for their troubles.

Auguste Camain is the dynamic leader. He's a Stalin type.
I don't like the 3 dominions idea. But nice suggestion.

[M79]

Check the road maps of abt 1750, the nascent networks were situated over the 3 regions I just mentioned. Plus each would be a country unto themselves in those days, slavery would separate New England from the rest and these are als areas that evolved into distinct regions within the US. Add a fourth Dominion as you described and perhaps a 5th evolves from Florida and Louisiana. I think uniting all colonies as we know them would be difficult at best if only because of logistics, besides who would run it and how do he/they get chosen?

[Abhakhazia]

Same way they ran the U.S.A. in the 1790s.
Dominion is created in like 1780

[Elfwine]

Also, I'm not sure I understand why this is appealing:

1759- A new form of government called "Radical Republicanism" grows on the back streets of Paris. Auguste Camain, a previously unknown Parisian writes The Radical Manifesto. He calls for Equality for All and for the destruction of the Church and businesses.

Equality for all? Great. Destruction of the Church? Okay, this is an age you might have some people arguing for that. Bussinesses? Who is going to support this?

And what is the French government starting this enormous spending spree on? They're already in the middle of a war.

I think this is an interesting idea (early French revolution), but it doesn't build up to the revolution very well even with the edits.

[Abhakhazia]

Originally Posted by Elfwine

Also, I'm not sure I understand why this is appealing:

1759- A new form of government called "Radical Republicanism" grows on the back streets of Paris. Auguste Camain, a previously unknown Parisian writes The Radical Manifesto. He calls for Equality for All and for the destruction of the Church and businesses.

Equality for all? Great. Destruction of the Church? Okay, this is an age you might have some people arguing for that. Bussinesses? Who is going to support this?

And what is the French government starting this enormous spending spree on? They're already in the middle of a war.

I think this is an interesting idea (early French revolution), but it doesn't build up to the revolution very well even with the edits.

If you would like to help, you're welcome to.

[Elfwine]

Originally Posted by Abhakhazia

If you would like to help, you're welcome to.

I'll do what I can.

I would suggest going back to an earlier POD, so that instead of OTL's Seven Years War, we have something far more ridiculous/expensive for Louis XV to blow money on.

[Abhakhazia]

A story from this timeline is coming out sometime this week.

Thank you to Elfwine for helping.

[Georgie Porgie]

Originally Posted by Abhakhazia

• January 1793- British take all of Louisiana. French now occupy Jamaica and Cuba and are absorbing the lesser Antilles- the Caribbean Theatre begins

Given that the Brit's have the sweetest tooth in Europe and the in OTL France gave up Canada rather than lose it's sugar island this would be a major blow to UK and I suspect that a large British Naval force would be dispatched immediately!

[Socrates]

You can have a much easier POD for a French Revolution earlier by just having George III live longer, the Seven Years War going on longer, and Pitt negotiating a harsh peace.

Why would the Bourbons go into exile in Quebec? It would be considered the ends of the Earth. They'd much prefer to stay in Europe and try to get back their great Kingdom of France.

Why did Pennsylvania revolt? I struggle to see a united revolt in Pennsylvania due to the political split in the colony between the Philadelphia types, the Quakers and the Germans.

Why would the French be insane enough to attack the thirteen colonies? British America has many, many times the population of Canada and Louisiana combined, they'd have the home field advantage, and the British
have the advantage in naval support. Considering the latter, how the hell did the French grab British sugar islands?

Why would the British abandon slavery in 1804 when it took them another thirty years in our timeline? How could they contemplate equal rights for blacks considering the entrenched racist attitudes of the time?

Originally Posted by M79

I think the 13 colonies would form three Dominions. Georgia, Carolinas, Virginia (Capital either Charlestown or Jamestown); New England (Boston), and Maryland, Delaware, Pennsylvania, New Jersey, and New York (Philadelphia). There was an attempt to make a Dominion of New England but it was not successful, and if you give these new Dominions representations in Parliament *or* allow a colonial parliament in Philadelphia it would probably resolve many of the difficulties engendered in the 1760s.

If you look at population maps, the South Carolina population is a different centre from Virginia to the North. North Carolina was thinly settled and didn't have great transport so divides the two. There's also a big economic difference in that Virginia & North Carolina is tobacco country, while South Carolina and Georgia are based around rice production.

Originally Posted by LOTLOF

With out the American revolution to draw from would there be any republican sentiment? Would the revolution instead aim at putting a new king on the throne and creating a limited monarchy where the nobility held most of the real power similar to the British model?

The Corsican Revolution provides evidence there was republican feeling around at this time, and the Enlightenment philosophes were burning brightly just as much at this time as later - this is the time of Voltaire. Remember the Revolutionaries in our timeline actually wanted a constitutional monarchy but the behaviour of the King turned them towards Republicanism.