Paratroopers Actually Used for Parachute Ops?

[Kome]

WW2 saw the first usage of paratroopers by any nation. Britain had their SAS. Germany had their initial successes, bloodied their noses at Crete then swore the thing off and put the survivors into basically a light infantry role (in an effing desert!). Italy had their Paracadutisti units, which pretty much had the same fate as their German counterparts. And so on, with the US, Russian and Japanese airborne divisions.

As stated Germany and Italy basically used their paratoopers as elite light infantry after Crete. They were pretty good in that role, due to high standards and morale. But this is AH, so lets ask an interesting WI.

What if they (the Italian Folgore division, and early German units) were used for actual paratrooper operations? Errr, more importantly what places would be possible for this type of operation?

Perhaps the Folgore division could be dropped in during the Seige of Tobruk? Could airborne drops be performed on the Eastern front or during the invasion of Italy?

Logically they would be useful in counter partisan operations in the Balkans, but that seems a bit degrading.

Im predicting high casualties for the units during parachute operations, so its probably going to become a one time trick. Not to mention any changes in history are probably going to be pretty minor. Or might i be wrong on that point?

Yes i know this is a pretty large stretch in plausibility (i realize no one in real life is going to bother with a parachute drop when your desperate for infantry as it is). But just humor the idea okay?

[Color-Copycat]

There was a bit of discussion on a similar topic in this old thread, and I think we reached the conclusion that German use of paratroopers on the Eastern Front would've been both unfeasible and ineffective.

[Life In Black]

Don't forget that Germany halted Fallschirmjäger operations at a time when it still held at least air-parity, if not supremacy in some places (the east). That situation isn't going to get any better, especially when their supply situation is only getting worse. Germany probably made the best decision regarding its paratroops. Any future operation would likely see the paras cease to exist as a coherent force, either due to better preparedness on the ground, a better enemy airforce, or failure by the Germans to relieve and/or supply them once on the ground, possibly even a combination of all three.

[Dan]

So are you just thinking Axis units?

There have been quite a few "live" parachute operations by the British and especially the US since their inception, as recently as 2003 IIRC.

[Kome]

Originally Posted by Dan

So are you just thinking Axis units?

There have been quite a few "live" parachute operations by the British and especially the US since their inception, as recently as 2003 IIRC.

Pretty much, when i specified in the first post i was talking about Folgore division (maybe the second division...) and the early Luftwaffe units (Ramcke brigade etc).

Originally Posted by Color-Copycat

There was a bit of discussion on a similar topic in this old thread, and I think we reached the conclusion that German use of paratroopers on the Eastern Front would've been both unfeasible and ineffective.

Ah so you have.

[Life In Black]

Originally Posted by Dan

So are you just thinking Axis units?

There have been quite a few "live" parachute operations by the British and especially the US since their inception, as recently as 2003 IIRC.

IIRC, I believe the IDF is almost entirely jump qualified. Not to mention parachuting is a standard insertion method for all Special Forces units.

[Kome]

Originally Posted by Life In Black

IIRC, I believe the IDF is almost entirely jump qualified. Not to mention parachuting is a standard insertion method for all Special Forces units.

Obviously. I didnt mean modern day, i specified in the OP that im talking about ww2 Axis (minus the Japanese) units.

[Riain]

Perhaps Africa could be a profitable theatre for Axis para drops. The small forces in the theatre and minimal communications could mean that a regiment dropped in the rear during an offensive could have a huge impact. But of course it would require a huge commitment in planes which can't be used elsewhere.

[tallwingedgoat]

Folgore would've been useful at Malta in 1940.

[Dan]

Sorry Kome,
That was me being thick.

The Germans could have used Paras effectively during Wacht Am Rhein, using company sized drops to secure supply depots before they were evecuated and/or destroyed. Although the end result would have probably been the same, i.e. German defeat. Bastogne may well have fallen, the split in the Allied lines, although temporary, would be damaging, and there's a good possibility that the Soviets would have advanced beyond their designated area, (and good luck getting Stalin to give up ground he's taken).

[arctic warrior]

Originally Posted by tallwingedgoat

Folgore would've been useful at Malta in 1940.

No it wouldn't - it wasn't formed untill Sep. 41.

Italy only had two Libyan battalions and a new Italian with a second forming in 40.

No Malta in 40 unless its a German go.

[Shimbo]

Originally Posted by Dan

Sorry Kome,
That was me being thick.

The Germans could have used Paras effectively during Wacht Am Rhein, using company sized drops to secure supply depots before they were evecuated and/or destroyed. Although the end result would have probably been the same, i.e. German defeat. Bastogne may well have fallen, the split in the Allied lines, although temporary, would be damaging, and there's a good possibility that the Soviets would have advanced beyond their designated area, (and good luck getting Stalin to give up ground he's taken).

The Germans did drop parachutists during the battle of the bulge. It was called Operation Stösser. It was a fiasco.

[Volksgrenadier2006]

Originally Posted by Shimbo

The Germans did drop parachutists during the battle of the bulge. It was called Operation Stösser. It was a fiasco.

It was a fiasco because the men (both the plane crews as the paratroopers themselves) were inexperienced, unsufficiently supplied and because the mission was not given the chance for the preperation it needed.
Any mission will be a fiasco under these circumstances.
The mission failed due to a lack of resources, but could have succeeded. In this case it would not have changed the outcome, because the SS division it was meant to clear the way for would not have arrived.

[Shimbo]

Originally Posted by Volksgrenadier2006

It was a fiasco because the men (both the plane crews as the paratroopers themselves) were inexperienced, unsufficiently supplied and because the mission was not given the chance for the preperation it needed.
Any mission will be a fiasco under these circumstances.
The mission failed due to a lack of resources, but could have succeeded. In this case it would not have changed the outcome, because the SS division it was meant to clear the way for would not have arrived.

Yes, but is it really possible for the Germans to resolve the issues that made their attempt at a parachute attack a fiasco at that stage of the war?

IMO, any Axis paratroop employment will have to be earlier whilst the Axis is still on the strategic offensive. Gen Student wanted to use Crete as a stepping stone to Cyprus and then Syria.

[Gangster]

you might want to look at this FYI

http://home.comcast.net/~harryfp/combat_jump_record.pdf

[Gridley]

Originally Posted by Gangster

you might want to look at this FYI

http://home.comcast.net/~harryfp/combat_jump_record.pdf

That is quite a list! I'd love to see one that filtered out drops of fewer than, say, 100 men.

[ThomasTheviking]

I would say Malta for the Axis also. Maybe following Crete, which could be seen as a success, eventhough casualties were high.

[Grey Wolf]

Originally Posted by ThomasTheviking

I would say Malta for the Axis also. Maybe following Crete, which could be seen as a success, eventhough casualties were high.

It would pretty much have killed off the veteran aspect of Student's corps, but IMHO it was doable, and is it Tsongas who wrote an AH timeline book where it is done

The one thing about dropping them into Africa itself is pretty much that once there, there they stay. And its not as if the logistical support is going to land next to them, to make them paratroops again


Best Regards
Grey Wolf

[ThomasTheviking]

Originally Posted by Grey Wolf

It would pretty much have killed off the veteran aspect of Student's corps, but IMHO it was doable, and is it Tsongas who wrote an AH timeline book where it is done


Best Regards
Grey Wolf

True...and I agree....but they would be used in their primary role, while securing a strategic island....but high casualties would indeed require a long period for rebuilding the Fallschirmjaegers afterwards.

[HJ Tulp]

Originally Posted by Gangster

you might want to look at this FYI

http://home.comcast.net/~harryfp/combat_jump_record.pdf

Fantastic resource!