What if Athena remained the Greek war deity?

[DominusNovus]

Well? How does this affect greek culture?

[carlton_bach]

This is kind of tricky, but I would argue it doesn't because religions are shaped by cultures more than the reverse. Unless, pof course, you assume Athena to be acting under her own volition to retain or reclaim her posaition, in which case Greece would rule the world, having an actual interventionist deity on its side.

BTW, the implixcations of the POD to make this possible are huge...

[DominusNovus]

Originally Posted by carlton_bach

This is kind of tricky, but I would argue it doesn't because religions are shaped by cultures more than the reverse. Unless, pof course, you assume Athena to be acting under her own volition to retain or reclaim her posaition, in which case Greece would rule the world, having an actual interventionist deity on its side.

BTW, the implixcations of the POD to make this possible are huge...

Alright (and I thought this might be an issue), how do we get Greek culture to this way?

BTW, if there's an actual Athena, then there'd likely be an actual Zeus, Hera, Hades, etc. And they didn't always side with Greece, ya know.

[Hermanubis]

Originally Posted by DominusNovus

Alright (and I thought this might be an issue), how do we get Greek culture to this way?

BTW, if there's an actual Athena, then there'd likely be an actual Zeus, Hera, Hades, etc. And they didn't always side with Greece, ya know.

But the actual Aries is being left out of the mix?

[Susano]

While, ys, culture forms religion for the most part, its not an oneway direction. The opposite also happens. For that, of course, we would need a cultrually mroe influential Athena... which translates to a mightier church/priesthood of her. Maybe Athens decides to sponsor her patron goddess more, and thus she remains goddess of war at least there? And with Athenian cultural importance, that could becarried all over Greece, so that she would be goddess of war in soem regions, but not in others.

[MarkA]

Athena, like all the classical gods, was an amalgum of Mycenean and pre-Greek dieties with some Dorian influence thrown in. She had characteristics of the Great Goddess as well as some local godlets.

Athens was a Mycenean city the Dorians never took it. Whoever the Dorians were.

[Susano]

Im aware of both. Whats you point?

[Tyr]

Did she actually used to be regarded as a war diety or are we talking of the back story in the religion here where Aeries somehow nicked her spot as war diety before recorded history?

[pieman3141]

Who exactly were the original gods in Greece anyways?

I know Dionysus and Apollo aren't, and I know Zeus and Hera are, but the rest?

And what roles did they originally play? Kinda like how Mars was originally a fertility god, until he turned into a war god.

[cow defender]

Originally Posted by Leej

Did she actually used to be regarded as a war diety or are we talking of the back story in the religion here where Aeries somehow nicked her spot as war diety before recorded history?

from a kids book i used to have when i was...well...a kid it said she had been the greek god of war and wisdom and something else that i cant remember

[Susano]

Yes, that si what Ive read,m too, but I thought she never actually "lost" that spot, just that she was put mroe in the background in that regard by Ares, so to say.

/Edit: Hm, idea. Could a polarity between Ares and Athena happen? Seeing that Athena has also "widsom" in her portfolio, could she become the goddess of "civilised warfare", emphasising strategy and war rules, while Ares remains the god of man-to-man fighting, "straight" battles, etc? Now, that could create some interesting implications...

[Archdevil]

Originally Posted by Susano

/Edit: Hm, idea. Could a polarity between Ares and Athena happen? Seeing that Athena has also "widsom" in her portfolio, could she become the goddess of "civilised warfare", emphasising strategy and war rules, while Ares remains the god of man-to-man fighting, "straight" battles, etc? Now, that could create some interesting implications...

Wasn't that the case?
At least, that's what I was taught in History classes.

[Susano]

I must cofness to having no idea, heh. As said, I only knew that Athene had "war" as a depatrment, but was put in the background in that regard by Ares. Any more detail I have no idea on...

[Bulgaroktonos]

Ares was the oldest of Zeus' and Hera's children, IIRC. I don't recall Athena ever being the single war goddess. There was always Ares, AFAIK.

Athena was the goddess of heroic and noble warfare, and the acts associated with being a good soldier. Ares was more the god of slaughter. That's why his children are Death, Pestilence, and the others. Also why Ares never really picks too many sides in war, and fights for whoever he feels like fighting for.....

[Susano]

Interesting. Why couldnt a concept of noble and civilised warfare derive from that in Greece? Kinda like the Geneva Convetions, just sacred rules. At leats I dont recall such happened...

[marl_d]

Zesus is the supreme Greek God with Poseidon, Hades, Hestia, Demeter and Hera all being his older siblings are the Original Greek Gods born from Chronos and Rhea the Titans who Zesus defeated and cast into Tartrus

[Chengar Qordath]

Given Athena's role as a more civilized war deity, I would think that if Greek religion survived rather than being overrun by Christianity she might end up eventually supplanting him as full-scale mass slaughter warfare becomes increasingly frowned upon.