DBWI: What did you do in WW III after the Red Dawn?

[JN1]

Originally Posted by Matt Wiser

Walker: Texas Ranger has had some pretty good stories based on the war and the aftermath. The fact that there's a lot of ComBloc weapons still in the hands of criminals (remember the guys that tried using RPGs on armored cars?), some Cubans and Russians who deserted and wound up in the criminal element, and so on makes for some good episodes. Not to mention the fact that Walker's character did some things for the resistance and "other agencies" that he still can't talk about. (OOC: if you've got ideas for Walker and other TV shows in TTL, such as JAG, go ahead!)

Those old stalwarts of British TV cop shows The Bill and Taggart started just before the war started and ran right through it to the present day. The episodes made during the war very much reflected the environment they were made in; production of several episodes was disrupted by Soviet bombing; the cast of The Bill had to deal with shot down Soviet aircrew, IEDs, spies and saboteurs. Taggart's storylines were still murder based, but some involved Soviet agents trying to spread terror and one who turned out to be a serial killer deliberately planted in Glasgow by the USSR.

Post-war there have been the usual stories involving settling of old scores, UXEOs etc. Taggart did a story shortly after the war about the murder of a prominent left-winger shortly after his return from internment on the Isle of Man. The twist to the story was that he was murdered by his own followers in an attempt to discredit the authorities.

The old fire brigade show London's Burning was quite well known for its wartime and post-war stories. However in its final two seasons before cancellation when quality had dropped off the writers fell back on having at least two, or three unexploded bomb episodes, including one where there was a bomb under the new Blackwall Fire Station.

[thepenguin]

Well, we stayed a couple days longer at Holloman to exercise with the Germans and the resident Raptors, and we participated in an exercise with NORAD this past Friday (OOC: the 180th Fighter Wing, OHANG, paticipated in escort and interception of suspicious aircraft exercises over Toledo, Canton, and Youngstown), but we're still stuck at Toledo Express Airport in Toledo, Ohio. We're trapped by the next big winter storm to roll through the Great Lakes. Toledo's expected to get about 8-12 inches tomorrow. We wanted to fly out, but supposedly the weather guys won't let us. As for the cars, the Mustang only comes out during the summer, and on nice days at that. The Maserati is the "daily driver" most days, but when there's snow on the ground, out comes my pickup. I don't speed much, but there's some backcountry roads where I can exercise the Maser and the 'Stang.

[Matt Wiser]

419's finally back to the Reserves; got the word when I came back from that little DACT hop: a 4-v-4 with some F-16s from Hill, and we made those guys sorry they challenged us. Told the wing that I'll see them the next Reserve weekend (three weeks away) and have a happy time at home. Got back to Mountain Home, and I can finally sleep in my own bed! And no speeding ticket on the way up, though the UHP and IHP were out in force. I am glad to say that everyone I took down to La Paz came back. Didn't lose any planes or crews, and no ground accidents.

The PLDP has finally allowed investigators to sift through the wreckage of that airliner one of Mann's F-22 jockeys splashed. They're looking at IDs that survived (you'll never believe what can survive a major crash intact) and other info. The CNN crew down there went to the crash site and found that the human remains have all been collected and are being stored for the investigators' needs. And the PLDP is about to swallow its pride and sign the cease-fire papers. Then we can say this little clean-up is over and done.

Fox has officially greenlighted Wolverines, so that series will be shooting in Colorado for next season. Sen. Erica Mason will be occasionally helping out, but her run for Colorado Governor comes first. Interesting tidbit: Colonel Bella is also being mentioned as a technical advisor, and at least two episodes will be shot from the Soviet/Cuban POV.

[DD951]

Originally Posted by JN1

Those old stalwarts of British TV cop shows The Bill and Taggart started just before the war started and ran right through it to the present day. The episodes made during the war very much reflected the environment they were made in; production of several episodes was disrupted by Soviet bombing; the cast of The Bill had to deal with shot down Soviet aircrew, IEDs, spies and saboteurs. Taggart's storylines were still murder based, but some involved Soviet agents trying to spread terror and one who turned out to be a serial killer deliberately planted in Glasgow by the USSR.

Post-war there have been the usual stories involving settling of old scores, UXEOs etc. Taggart did a story shortly after the war about the murder of a prominent left-winger shortly after his return from internment on the Isle of Man. The twist to the story was that he was murdered by his own followers in an attempt to discredit the authorities.

The old fire brigade show London's Burning was quite well known for its wartime and post-war stories. However in its final two seasons before cancellation when quality had dropped off the writers fell back on having at least two, or three unexploded bomb episodes, including one where there was a bomb under the new Blackwall Fire Station.

Don't remember what sort of cop shows & the like were on in the 80s- after all, warships didn't normally get reception unless in port (and the satellite dishes that allow it were added in the early 90s). However, those concepts- murders involving assorted combinations of collaborators/ex-auxiliary types, Combloc deserters/holdouts, ex-resistance fighters, veterans, and people who suffered through the occupation for revenge, to eliminate witnesses to stuff that went down in the war, efforts to restart things by leftover leftists, etc., leftover explosives & weapons in the hands of criminals or causing problems on their own, ex-Combloc, colloborator, or resistance-type-turned-rogue as a crime boss or hitman, and so on provided a lot of plots not only for Walker, but CSI:Vegas & CSI:Miami as well.

There was also an ER 2-parter that involved a large unexploded bomb (their version of a 2000-lb.) left over from that one time the Soviets bombed Chicago in '86 uncovered at a construction site between a school and a shopping mall set off by a backhoe resulting in a 'mass casualty trauma event'.

IIRC, there have also been a bunch of police & action-thriller movies revolving around this stuff, although I'm not a big movie fan.

(OOC- if we're going into TTL TV shows, we might need to figure out who took over as a cultural/social/economic hub from NYC, since it isn't there any more TTL, and a lot of major shows OTL were set there for those reasons, and TTL's equivalents would likely be set there. Boston? Philadelphia? Somewhere else?)

[Matt Wiser]

OOC: I'd go with Boston, Philly (where Cold Case is set), Chicago, Miami, L.A. and San Francsico. The original CSI, of course, can still be set in Vegas. And CSI: Miami would still be viable. Instead of New York, the third franchise in the CSI: series could go to Seattle, New Orleans, or Atlanta. (it's said that it was a toss-up between going to Atlanta or NY for the third show)

[JN1]

OOC: I'd thought that CSI: NY could still work. It would be even darker than in @ with the deaths of hundreds of thousands hanging over the show. Mac could have lost his wife in the bombing of Manhattan rather than 9/11 while he was off in the marines.
I did suggest a while back an episode in which the team would have to cross to Manhattan Island in full NBC gear.

[Wolfman]

Originally Posted by Matt Wiser

419's finally back to the Reserves; got the word when I came back from that little DACT hop: a 4-v-4 with some F-16s from Hill, and we made those guys sorry they challenged us. Told the wing that I'll see them the next Reserve weekend (three weeks away) and have a happy time at home. Got back to Mountain Home, and I can finally sleep in my own bed! And no speeding ticket on the way up, though the UHP and IHP were out in force. I am glad to say that everyone I took down to La Paz came back. Didn't lose any planes or crews, and no ground accidents.

The PLDP has finally allowed investigators to sift through the wreckage of that airliner one of Mann's F-22 jockeys splashed. They're looking at IDs that survived (you'll never believe what can survive a major crash intact) and other info. The CNN crew down there went to the crash site and found that the human remains have all been collected and are being stored for the investigators' needs. And the PLDP is about to swallow its pride and sign the cease-fire papers. Then we can say this little clean-up is over and done.

Fox has officially greenlighted Wolverines, so that series will be shooting in Colorado for next season. Sen. Erica Mason will be occasionally helping out, but her run for Colorado Governor comes first. Interesting tidbit: Colonel Bella is also being mentioned as a technical advisor, and at least two episodes will be shot from the Soviet/Cuban POV.

That's going to be one hell of a show, from what I hear. By the way, did you ever watch the last remake of Battlestar Galactica?

[Matt Wiser]

It should, given the money that Fox is putting into it. And if they film on or near location, the town should get a lot of money coming in: actors and film crews do spend money, after all. Then there's locals playing as extras, local contractors helping with set construction and the like, and so on.

One of my favorite episodes of JAG (I know it was entertainment, but it was darned good) had Harm and Mac checking out a MOH candidate who was reccommended for the medal, but all the wartime paperwork was lost or otherwise couldn't be found. The guy was a paraplegic who lost his family in Kansas City, joined the Marines, and fought with 2nd MarDiv in Louisiana and in GULF HAMMER, before someone ahead of him stepped on a mine, and he took shrapnel in his spine. His acts before that were written up for a MOH, but his company and battalion COs both got killed, and the paperwork was lost. I do believe this was based on a wartime event..

What's left of the old ComBloc is still shreiking about our little clean-up operation south of the Rio Grande; anyone catch the CNN report from Geneva? The Rump USSR and NK both introduced a UNSC resolution to condemn the invasion, demand restoration of "the legitimate government of Mexico" payment of reparations, economic sanctions on the U.S., and so on. The footage had a lot of ambassadors trying to stifle yawns (they've heard all this before), before the vote was taken. 13-2 against....The only yeas were from the Rump USSR and NK. The usual denounciations, the usual retorts, the usual vote against, and so on....

[DD951]

Originally Posted by Matt Wiser

OOC: I'd go with Boston, Philly (where Cold Case is set), Chicago, Miami, L.A. and San Francsico. The original CSI, of course, can still be set in Vegas. And CSI: Miami would still be viable. Instead of New York, the third franchise in the CSI: series could go to Seattle, New Orleans, or Atlanta. (it's said that it was a toss-up between going to Atlanta or NY for the third show)

After thinking things over a bit, I'd guess that as far as things stay in the Northeast, Boston would get most of the financial/economic stuff, as Philadelphia seems to be more or less where the government ended up TTL after DC bought it & a good chunk of financial stuff in Boston, & there seems to be a historical dispersion between the centers of government & finance. There'd be more of a split on the cultural stuff.

IMO, Boston, Philadelphia, & Chicago would probably be the best places to put TTL's versions of Law & Order and the 3rd CSI franchise, although LA & SF could work (particularly as a spin-off having Grissom & Sara leave Vegas for there), if a LA cop show wasn't a bit of a cliche & the powers that be weren't concerned about the possibility of franchies being too close geographically, which would be one of the big knocks against Atlanta & New Orleans.

The way the crime lab here in WA is set up would work against a CSI franchise really being workable, as here, the crime scene detectives collect the evidence & send it to the state crime lab near Olympia, run by the State Patrol, for processing (often with a significant backlog).

Originally Posted by JN1

OOC: I'd thought that CSI: NY could still work. It would be even darker than in @ with the deaths of hundreds of thousands hanging over the show. Mac could have lost his wife in the bombing of Manhattan rather than 9/11 while he was off in the marines.
I did suggest a while back an episode in which the team would have to cross to Manhattan Island in full NBC gear.

I don't think that would really work, as most shows set in NYC are very Manhattan-focused, and don't pay much attention to other parts of the city such as Brooklyn or Queens. Secondly, CSI:NY is one of the shows I regularly watch, and from what I recall of what they've shown of his backstory, Mac's orginally from Chicago, got married & left the Corps to join the NYPD about 1991-92 at the earliest, and met his wife a couple years before that. Out of the cast, only a handful aren't from Manhattan as far as we've been led to believe- Danny (from one of the other boroughs, & may still have been taken out by the nuke TTL), Lindsey (from a small town in Montana), & that ME from somwhere in Britain Mac dated in one season.

[JN1]

OOC: Pity as CSI: NY is my favourite of the franchise. Sadly we'll also lose NYPD Blue as well.
When did we decide that Manhattan was nuked? IIRC the only nuke targets specifically mentioned in Red Dawn were DC, Omaha, Kansas City (a nod to The Day After, I think) and the Mid Western ICBM fields. I don't remember NYC, or any other city getting a mention.

Peyton was from London, IIRC; that was certainly where Mac went to see her. Anthony Zuiker did once mention in an interview that he thought that London would be perfect for a CSI franchise, however the UK has already gotten its own forensic based TV series (Silent Witness and Waking the Dead), so I'm not sure how it would fit. Law and Order: UK isn't a patch on its parent show, for example. Ironic really as the original L & O is based on a British TV film of the same title.

[Wolfman]

Originally Posted by Matt Wiser

It should, given the money that Fox is putting into it. And if they film on or near location, the town should get a lot of money coming in: actors and film crews do spend money, after all. Then there's locals playing as extras, local contractors helping with set construction and the like, and so on.

One of my favorite episodes of JAG (I know it was entertainment, but it was darned good) had Harm and Mac checking out a MOH candidate who was reccommended for the medal, but all the wartime paperwork was lost or otherwise couldn't be found. The guy was a paraplegic who lost his family in Kansas City, joined the Marines, and fought with 2nd MarDiv in Louisiana and in GULF HAMMER, before someone ahead of him stepped on a mine, and he took shrapnel in his spine. His acts before that were written up for a MOH, but his company and battalion COs both got killed, and the paperwork was lost. I do believe this was based on a wartime event..

What's left of the old ComBloc is still shreiking about our little clean-up operation south of the Rio Grande; anyone catch the CNN report from Geneva? The Rump USSR and NK both introduced a UNSC resolution to condemn the invasion, demand restoration of "the legitimate government of Mexico" payment of reparations, economic sanctions on the U.S., and so on. The footage had a lot of ambassadors trying to stifle yawns (they've heard all this before), before the vote was taken. 13-2 against....The only yeas were from the Rump USSR and NK. The usual denounciations, the usual retorts, the usual vote against, and so on....

You think those two countries would learn...

[JN1]

What, Commies learn something? That would be the day.

[DD951]

Originally Posted by JN1

OOC: Pity as CSI: NY is my favourite of the franchise. Sadly we'll also lose NYPD Blue as well.
When did we decide that Manhattan was nuked? IIRC the only nuke targets specifically mentioned in Red Dawn were DC, Omaha, Kansas City (a nod to The Day After, I think) and the Mid Western ICBM fields. I don't remember NYC, or any other city getting a mention.

Peyton was from London, IIRC; that was certainly where Mac went to see her. Anthony Zuiker did once mention in an interview that he thought that London would be perfect for a CSI franchise, however the UK has already gotten its own forensic based TV series (Silent Witness and Waking the Dead), so I'm not sure how it would fit. Law and Order: UK isn't a patch on its parent show, for example. Ironic really as the original L & O is based on a British TV film of the same title.

OOC: NYC getting hit was first mentioned on page 2, & became official on 14-15; about a 490 KT weapon hitting the middle of Manhattan. What's left of NYC TTL is primarily the Bronx & Queens. Later on in the thread, it's mentioned that due to everything that's gone on in this TL, along with DC having a greater priority, clean-up & reconstruction has only really gotten started within the last few years. TTL's equivalents of shows like NYPD Blue, the L&O franchise, and one of the CSI shows would likely be in Boston, Philadelphia, Chicago, LA, or SF depending on how the cultural & financial hubs shift with Manhattan gone, with Boston & Philly being the most likely canididates IMO.

[TheMann]

OOC: I figure LA would be a very likely candidate. The various populations, lots of which now have more guns than before, mean that there would probably be more crime ITTL Los Angeles than before. And note to those who have not been there: LA is H-U-G-E. Going from Malibu to Pomona with good traffic takes an hour and a half on the highway. On surface streets, that's worse still. Likewise, San Fernando to Long Beach is an hour plus on the freeway.

IC: The rump USSR and NK are just the last annoying clowns on the planet. Everybody else has learned the lesson, even many of the Russians have. How many nations came out of the USSR, again? 20?

[Matt Wiser]

OOC: The L.A. Area would do for a Law and Order franchise if NYC is slag, ditto for either Boston or Chicago. A CSI: San Francisco would also be a possiblity.

IC: Don't forget that lunatic down in Caracas. He's hosting those who got out of Cuba before our intervention, and a few (very few) who got out of Mexico before or during the recent clean-up down there. That blowhard movie-maker is at the top of the list. A few cruise missiles on that radio station they use to broadcast the "comedy hour" should be enough to silence them-for good. My Intel Officer says they went into overdrive while we were busy down in Mexico. One good sign that the PLDP means business is that they cut off diplomatic relations with the last of the old ComBloc, and the above-mentioned lunatic, also.

There's about two dozen or so ex-Soviet states, depending on which atlas you see and which ones have been recognized by the UN. Some claim to be countries, but they're cut off by the Rump Soviet state or the FER, one or more of the 'stans, and so on. China is much, much worse. I've mentioned the Google Earth images of the nuclear targets there: they look like the surface of the moon in many cases. Beijing and Shanghai, among other cities, look like the bombs fell only last week. Has anybody seen a count of how many warheads fell on the PRC, or at least seen a reliable estimate? It has to be at least several hundred-all in the medium KT to MT range. The Air War College only mentioned "at least 500".

Speaking of Hong Kong, my cousin Jacqui heard from an OCS classmate: the carrier Carl Vinson and her group are off Hong Kong, providing security for a B-52 salvage operation. This Buff was one on airborne alert after the invasion, since SAC didn't know if Ivan would pop any more nukes, when she had an inflight fire and didn't make Kai Tak. Of the seven crew aboard (one being a relief pilot), five got out, but the pilot and copilot died in the crash. The operation is going to recover the lost weapons, and see if any human remains can be found. Depth at the crash site varies between 600 and 900 feet. There's unclassifed info on the warload: four B-43 gravity bombs and eight SRAMs. Just hope the bombs are intact and there wasn't any spillage of material.

Well, Fox has announced some casting for Wolverines, and guess who's playing Col. Bella: Esai Morales, while John M. Jackson from JAG will play Erica Mason's granddad.

[Nikephoros]

Some of our mission reports are set to be declassified. I've already put in a FOUCIA (Freedom of UnClassified Information Act) request.

Anyone wanna guess how much black marker will be used

[DD951]

The rump USSR, NK, Venezuela and the other commie leftovers gaining any sense- with the way they've been acting, they must rely heavily on exporting assorted narcotics and other mind-altering substances to keep their economies afloat, and the leadership must be personally involved in doing the quality assurance testing...

As for the B-52 wreck, if the bombs onboard have been compromised, that would be one hell of a mess

Concerning the mission reports, well hopefully the archives buy their sharpies in bulk, as buying that many retail would be a gross waste of taxpayer money.

That Wolverines show is looking more and more interesting- anyone know when it's supposed to premier?

[Matt Wiser]

Considering the Rump Soviet state and the NKs talk like they won the war, any dose of common sense from those two will be the first. And the lunatic down in Caracas still idolizes Fidel's late and unlamented regime, though most of his people don't.

Those bombs are supposed to be able to withstand a high-speed impact, and weren't yet armed, so they should be OK. But after that long on the ocean floor, nobody knows. The salvage crew will soon find out. No doubt the Navy has taken the appropriate precautions, including using ROVs to recover any spilled material.

Not sure the exact date of the premiere, but it's for the fall season. My wife watches Entertainment Tonight, and she told me about it. (I prefer CNN's Showbiz Today, as it's less sensationalistic) Being Fox, it'll probably be after the World Series.

(OOC: would the New York, K.C. and Washington pro sports teams have relocated postwar? I could see the D.C. teams going to Baltimore, the K.C. Chiefs and Royals going to maybe Oklahoma City, Memphis, or Nashville, but what about the New York teams: two baseball, two football, one basketball, and two hockey teams. Where would they go?

[truth is life]

Originally Posted by Matt Wiser

(OOC: would the New York, K.C. and Washington pro sports teams have relocated postwar? I could see the D.C. teams going to Baltimore, the K.C. Chiefs and Royals going to maybe Oklahoma City, Memphis, or Nashville, but what about the New York teams: two baseball, two football, one basketball, and two hockey teams. Where would they go?

Oh, that's a question! Probably first to whichever large markets don't have those teams, then to any new and interesting markets the leagues feel like developing. After that, they probably get disbanded--there's nowhere for them to go, no markets to support them.

[thepenguin]

Originally Posted by Matt Wiser

(OOC: would the New York, K.C. and Washington pro sports teams have relocated postwar? I could see the D.C. teams going to Baltimore, the K.C. Chiefs and Royals going to maybe Oklahoma City, Memphis, or Nashville, but what about the New York teams: two baseball, two football, one basketball, and two hockey teams. Where would they go?

(OOC: Maybe the Yankees go to Albany and the Mets go to Hartford, CT?)
Yeah, I'm a big fan of the Annapolis Capitals NHL team. They lost tonight against the Habs in overtime. Broke their 14-game win streak, but they'll get back on the horse.
(OOC: IOTL, I'm a Washington Capitals fan, and I thought I would insert their recent success into ATL. The Redskins going to B'More could keep the Cleveland Browns in Cleveland and we wouldn't have the misery as in OTL.)