All Mexico Timeline

[Helios Ra]

You can probably guess the topic of this timeline. It is my first, and I expect it to be abysmal, which is why I wish to rely on the help of anyone who reads this. I'm sure it's a cliche as well, but hopefully that will make it easier.
Given that my original POD has been judged as poor at best, I'm working on one of four PODs:

1. The USA occupies and annexes all of Mexico after the Mexican-American War.
2. A larger Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo, and then obtaining the rest of Mexico at some later point.
3. After the American Civil War, the South fights the reoccupation of the states in rebellion, tying down more Union forces. The French puppet Empire of Mexico is able to survive, and is later invaded by the USA after the situation in the South stablizes for violating the Monroe Doctrine.
4. I abandon it in this forum, and put my original into the ASB forum.

So, again: Please give your input into how I can make this realistic. I have vague ideas, but recognize that others probably have better ideas.

EDIT: I've decided I'm too incompetent to do this at this time. I'll stay content with the other stuff I do here. Thanks for your suggestions though.

[Hawkeye]

Originally Posted by Helios Ra

You can probably guess the topic of this timeline. It is my first, and I expect it to be abysmal, which is why I wish to rely on the help of anyone who reads this. I'm sure it's a cliche as well, but hopefully that will make it easier.
Presently, I'm putting together maps, and doing my best to create a workable POD. Currently, it is the Gadsen Purchase buying all of Sonora, Chihuahua, and Baja California in 1853.
My rationale for this diversion is a threat of further war with Mexico, as well as supporting another secession of Yucatan and the Republic of the Rio Grande.
Obviously, the issue now becomes how to arrange the annexation of the rest of Mexico. Will they be made states, considering they are not white majority? If so, will they be slave states? What happens with the development of race relations and states' rights in a larger America?
I've attached a map of how I see America after a larger Gadsen Purchase.
So, again: Please give your input into how I can make this realistic. I have vague ideas, but recognize that others probably have better ideas.

A larger Gadsen Purchase with Mexico selling Sonora, Chihuahua and Baja? You do know that the Gadsen Purchase was made because the area was a better place to build a railway. Plus, the Mexicans made it vary clear that they wouldn't give up anything south of the Gila River. In sort, your POD is ASB to the max.

[Helios Ra]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye

A larger Gadsen Purchase with Mexico selling Sonora, Chihuahua and Baja? You do know that the Gadsen Purchase was made because the area was a better place to build a railway. Plus, the Mexicans made it vary clear that they wouldn't give up anything south of the Gila River. In sort, your POD is ASB to the max.

Hmm. I did know that, but figured threats of war might be enough to convince them. I'll wait on one more person to either support you or say my POD is very unlikely, though not quite an ASB and then try and figure out something else. In ohter words, I'll start thinking of something else. I'm not quite happy with my current POD, but wanted to start somewhere.

EDIT: I suppose I should clarify: this alternate Gadsden Purchase was less about a transcontinental railroad and more about expansionism.

[Solomaxwell6]

Originally Posted by Helios Ra

Hmm. I did know that, but figured threats of war might be enough to convince them. I'll wait on one more person to either support you or say my POD is very unlikely, though not quite an ASB and then try and figure out something else. In ohter words, I'll start thinking of something else. I'm not quite happy with my current POD, but wanted to start somewhere.

EDIT: I suppose I should clarify: this alternate Gadsden Purchase was less about a transcontinental railroad and more about expansionism.

How about a slightly bigger Guadalupe-Hidalgo?

I think that there would be problems with the Gadsden Purchase here; Mexico isn't going to be pleased with the US, especially after supporting two additional independence movements.

[Hawkeye]

Originally Posted by Helios Ra

Hmm. I did know that, but figured threats of war might be enough to convince them. I'll wait on one more person to either support you or say my POD is very unlikely, though not quite an ASB and then try and figure out something else. In ohter words, I'll start thinking of something else. I'm not quite happy with my current POD, but wanted to start somewhere.

EDIT: I suppose I should clarify: this alternate Gadsden Purchase was less about a transcontinental railroad and more about expansionism.

But the US just got out of a war with Mexico and the Mexican American War was vary controversial at that and Americans didn't want more land form Mexico because they already got what they wanted and many didn't want to let more Mexicans become Americans citizens. And Mexico won't back down from a fight, even if victory is unlikely.

[Helios Ra]

Originally Posted by Solomaxwell6

How about a slightly bigger Guadalupe-Hidalgo?

I think that there would be problems with the Gadsden Purchase here; Mexico isn't going to be pleased with the US, especially after supporting two additional independence movements.

I suppose that would work. But, given that my goal is to see all of Mexico annexed in this timeline, and then seeing how that might change history, a second war would have to be started. That or the US buys out all of Mexico, or somehow there's a popular movement in Mexico to join the US. Neither seem entirely likely to me, even less likely than my Gadsden expansion.

The simplest thing would just be the total annexation of Mexico at the end of the Mexican-American War, but that seems too simple, which probably means it would be best.

[Helios Ra]

Well, I have reached four possible PODs:

1. The USA occupies and annexes all of Mexico after the Mexican-American War.
2. A larger Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo, and then obtaining the rest of Mexico at some later point.
3. After the American Civil War, the South fights the reoccupation of the states in rebellion, tying down more Union forces. The French puppet Empire of Mexico is able to survive, and is later invaded by the USA after the situation in the South stablizes for violating the Monroe Doctrine.
4. I abandon it in this forum, and put my original into the ASB forum.

[Susano]

Well, I think 1) is possible. The real realism issue would be afterwards: Occupying a such large territory with such a large cultrually different population will most likely be a drain on the USA, IMO...

[Solomaxwell6]

Originally Posted by Susano

Well, I think 1) is possible. The real realism issue would be afterwards: Occupying a such large territory with such a large cultrually different population will most likely be a drain on the USA, IMO...

I agree. 2) would be possible as well, although it would require at least one more war. I like 2), since it would allow more time to gradually integrate Mexico, instead of just trying to swallow it in one gulp.

Don't really like 3), myself, and 4) is giving up!

[benjamin]

I think your best bet for getting all of Mexico into the US is to kill off a couple of people.

1.) Have Nicholas Trist, diplomat who negotiated the Treaty of Guadalupe-Hidalgo with Mexico, murdered before completing the negotiations. Even if his death is the act of some random crazy or a mugging gone wrong, the US government will be pissed off and Polk will be able to get a lot more out of Mexico with the support of Congress.

So once the US gets more of Mexico the Civil War roles along on schedule but in Mexico, France does a bit better.

2.) Juarez, Mexico's Lincoln, is captured and executed. Without his leadership the Liberals begin to fall apart in the face of increased pressure from the Conservatives and Maximilian's French allies. Several thousand Confederates move to Mexico while many more pro-Union volunteers travel to Mexico to form anti-Maximilian Lincoln and Juarez Brigades. France gets the hint and bails. This leaves the US in de facto control of Mexico which by 1868 is a protectorate. By means fair and foul the US cajoles the remaining Mexican states to accept territorial status with the promise of statehood within ten years.

Benjamin

[Helios Ra]

I appreciate the reccomendations. I'll start mulling them over and trying to make something workable by tomorrow.

[Hawkeye]

I say have Mexico defend its northern territories with a little more success then in OTL. The US responds to Mexico by sending in more solders, leaving a lot of US solders occupying most of modern day northern Mexico.

[jycee]

I think the easiest way for an "all Mexico" scenario to come true is for Mexico to slowly disintegrate and balkanize while the US eats bit by bit.
Have the Rio Grande Republic and Yucatan obtain independence at the same time as Texas.
Then have the US annex Texas along with Yucatan (in OTL Yucatan actually asked several times for admission into the US as it tried to win independence).
The Mexican-American war starts over the annexation.
Because the Rio Grande Rep is on the way the war is actually shorter and more brutal since the US goes directly for Veracruz and into the center of Mexico.
The US wins the war and in the treaty it eats not only Alta-California and New Mexico but Baja, Sonora and Chihuahua as well (note these states used to be larger back then than they are now).
As a result Mexico begins splintering and falling apart into several "republics". American filibusters help along the way and establish some governments.
Have at least 3 major new republics: an indigenous one centered in Oaxaca, a very conservative one centered in Puebla/Tlaxcala, and a "liberal" one centered in Mexico City / Queretaro / Veracruz and the north. Works even better if this last one is actually a collective of many separate republics or simply Balkanized into several ones.
At some point do to pressure the Rio Grande Rep. asks for admission into the Union. Further enlargement of the "south" causes the civil war to break out.
After a Union victory and the annexation of the Rio Grande Rep. the US seeks to "reunite" the American people under a common cause.
Slowly but surely it eats the rest of Mexico until only Puebla and Oaxaca are left but ultimately they cave in as well.