Fragmentation of the CSA

[Leistungsfähiger Amerikan]

Originally Posted by Johnrankins

Actually it would take a rewriting of the Southern Constitution to have slavery abolished in even a state by state basis because of the "in transit" clause. Dred Scott made it clear you could be "in transit" for years.

I just feel that eventually, the majority if white southerners would want to get rid of slavery due to the harm on their economey, and at that point they would try and vote to end it. The key is gettting to this point before a revolution or slave revolt.

[AmIndHistoryAuthor]

Originally Posted by David S Poepoe

An economic backwater in the top ten is pretty good. Its better than Spain and Austria-Hungary.

That's an amusing argument to make, that the CSA would compare favorably to two falling apart empires in sharp decline, whose empires would disappear entirely in two generations.

What these arguments that the CSA would industrialize ignore is the obvious. The region had long failed to industrialize because of slavery. Slavery removed any incentive to modernize. If slavery continues because the insurgents win, that status as an economic backwater only worsens.

[David S Poepoe]

Originally Posted by AmIndHistoryAuthor

That's an amusing argument to make, that the CSA would compare favorably to two falling apart empires in sharp decline, whose empires would disappear entirely in two generations.

What these arguments that the CSA would industrialize ignore is the obvious. The region had long failed to industrialize because of slavery. Slavery removed any incentive to modernize. If slavery continues because the insurgents win, that status as an economic backwater only worsens.

Amusing that the Austro-Hungarian Empire wasn't falling apart either, and the Spanish Empire was picked apart by the Americans. Slavery clearly did not remove any incentive to modernize since the South was modernizing at the time. It was taking a more conservative approach.

[DuQuense]

The region had long failed to industrialize because of slavery.

The failure was due to a lack of Liquid Capital. While Slavery contributed to this lack it wasn't the total.
In the 1810's~1820's the south sank a lot of Capital into a extensive canal system. This capital got wiped out by the Bankruptcies in the 1830's.
However the South had recovered by the 1850's, and was beginning to built a Rail net, and some beginnings of Industrialization.
The War then again wiped out this, along with a Massive fixed Capital [Slaves] Hit.
The South then started to Recover in the 1880's~1890's [Cotton Barons]. And the first shift from the Rust Belt to the Sun Belt.
This is why the [depressed] US textile Industry is mostly in in the South.

Depending on how long and Devastating the Alt ACW is, I see no reason the South would not have it's own Homegrown Robber Barons, rushing to Industrialize

[Troyer IV]

Below is direct from the Confederate Constitution:

ARTICLE V

Section I. (I) Upon the demand of any three States, legally assembled in their several conventions, the Congress shall summon a convention of all the States, to take into consideration such amendments to the Constitution as the said States shall concur in suggesting at the time when the said demand is made; and should any of the proposed amendments to the Constitution be agreed on by the said convention, voting by States, and the same be ratified by the Legislatures of two- thirds of the several States, or by conventions in two-thirds thereof, as the one or the other mode of ratification may be proposed by the general convention, they shall thenceforward form a part of this Constitution. But no State shall, without its consent, be deprived of its equal representation in the Senate.

While no mention is made of actually legality of secession, this provision would likely be used in the process of obtaining a Constitutional Amendment, should the situation demand.

ARTICLE VI

...

6. The powers not delegated to the Confederate States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States, respectively, or to the people thereof.

Also, as it was not explicitly prohibited, then one could argue that this particular article leaves the topic of secession open.

-----

Based entirely upon this and aforementioned arguments, I have devised a (though albeit rough) TL concerning a Confederate victory early in the war, with European recognition before the Emancipation Proclamation, thereby hindering any perceived idealism beyond National Pride on behalf of the US.

The map is located here: http://www.alternatehistory.com/disc...postcount=7744

There are a few notes below the map, and I know there are some ASB elements (which I just wanted to throw in for no real reason other than to have a silly melting pot - such as Sioux Nation and Negro Republic). I've been too busy lately to work on my TL, but the first sections (1862-1880s) is nearly complete. Sadly, I won't post anything concerning the US without adequate research into worldwide events, of which I know little of this time period.

[Joke Insurance]

I could see Tennessee, West Virginia and Kentucky forming their own country.