Mongol Expansion into North America.

[Pearlshire19]

What if the Mongols discovered the New World by exploring and expanding into Siberia, and then they crossed the Bering Strait into Alaska. What if they started a conquest up there, which they would undoubtably face little resistance until they meet the Aztecs.

[Philip]

Originally Posted by Pearlshire19

What if the Mongols discovered the New World by exploring and expanding into Siberia, and then they crossed the Bering Strait into Alaska.

Why, pray tell, would they want to do that?

What if they started a conquest up there, which they would undoubtably face little resistance until they meet the Aztecs.

The climate and terrain would present significant resistance. The lack of plunder would present even more.

[Metro]

The Yaquis and Apaches would have been more of a problem. Spaniards never really conquered the Yaquis. And the Apaches once gave the US much to worry about.

The Mongols, seem to only go where there was enough grass for there horses. No grass in the Tundra for there horses. They did sometimes use ships to invade islands but generally it usually went bad for them.

Just look at the map of the mongol invasion. They never conquered way up north.

See this Map:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...re_History.jpg

But if they had managed to get to North America they could have conquered part of it. Must remember there were not that many Mongols. They were overstretched in Asia and Europe.

[Roberto]

First off: The Mongols had zero interest in expanding any more north than they did.

Secondly: Even if they had, they would have even less interest in possibly going further into what would be pretty worthless land in their eyes.

Thirdly: Even if some fisherman/explorer/whatever finds Alaska, nobody would go any further, there's no real reason to.

[Strategos' Risk]

Expansion is pointless, but inadvertent exploration by some voyaging warriors is possible.

Then again, it may be pointless as well.

[Pearlshire19]

Alaska is not just barren tundra, and neither is Siberia. Around Kamchatka in Russia is broadleaf forest and tundra, and if they were attracted by the broadleaf forest after going there, they may stay. If they went past that to the Aleutian Islands they will hit Broadleaf Forest again. Then they may explore what is now Alaska and might go down by the Coat Mountains, and may go down to the Cascades, where they might encounter native tribes and take that land.

[Roberto]

Originally Posted by Pearlshire19

Alaska is not just barren tundra, and neither is Siberia. Around Kamchatka in Russia is broadleaf forest and tundra, and if they were attracted by the broadleaf forest after going there, they may stay. If they went past that to the Aleutian Islands they will hit Broadleaf Forest again. Then they may explore what is now Alaska and might go down by the Coat Mountains, and may go down to the Cascades, where they might encounter native tribes and take that land.

What could a nomadic warrior tribe possibly want from broadleaf forests? The very reason that the Mongols didn't go up there was the fact that the trees made it useless to them.

[rcduggan]

Originally Posted by Pearlshire19

What if the Mongols discovered the New World by exploring and expanding into Siberia, and then they crossed the Bering Strait into Alaska. What if they started a conquest up there, which they would undoubtably face little resistance until they meet the Aztecs.

I think speculating "what if the Mongols had giant flying lizards that breathed fire and shot lasers from their eyes" would be just as productive and realistic.

Seriously, there is no non-ASB scenario that could have the Mongols conquer North America and go forward in time to take on the Aztecs.

[SilverPhantom2]

What if the Mongol invasion of Japan succeeds in 1281? Perhaps the "Blue Khanate" for lack of a better term, is in power for centuries. Maybe in the 1400s, they begin some sailing journeys with a joint Mongol-Japanese venture eastward and discover the coast of California. More explorations come up with Mexico and eventually a Khanate-Aztec War springs up with the Khanata eventually winning out and beginning their own Empire in the New World.

At the same time, possibly earlier in the 1300s, Khanate fisherman could begin exploring the fishing areas northward and soon discover the Aleutian islands. Akin to Anglo fishermen being in Newfoundland when Cabot "discovered" North America. Eventually, the Aleutians and all of Alaska is added to the Empire of the Blue Horde.

[rcduggan]

Originally Posted by SilverPhantom2

What if the Mongol invasion of Japan succeeds in 1281? Perhaps the "Blue Khanate" for lack of a better term, is in power for centuries. Maybe in the 1400s, they begin some sailing journeys with a joint Mongol-Japanese venture eastward and discover the coast of California. More explorations come up with Mexico and eventually a Khanate-Aztec War springs up with the Khanata eventually winning out and beginning their own Empire in the New World.

At the same time, possibly earlier in the 1300s, Khanate fisherman could begin exploring the fishing areas northward and soon discover the Aleutian islands. Akin to Anglo fishermen being in Newfoundland when Cabot "discovered" North America. Eventually, the Aleutians and all of Alaska is added to the Empire of the Blue Horde.

Why the hell would the Mongols want to explore across the ocean in the first place? And also, the Mongols were horsemen, not fishermen.

[010camaro]

Originally Posted by Metro

The Yaquis and Apaches would have been more of a problem. Spaniards never really conquered the Yaquis. And the Apaches once gave the US much to worry about.

The Mongols, seem to only go where there was enough grass for there horses. No grass in the Tundra for there horses. They did sometimes use ships to invade islands but generally it usually went bad for them.

Just look at the map of the mongol invasion. They never conquered way up north.

See this Map:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...re_History.jpg

But if they had managed to get to North America they could have conquered part of it. Must remember there were not that many Mongols. They were overstretched in Asia and Europe.

the Comanche tribe gave the apache hell too. imagine what they would do to the mongols

[SilverPhantom2]

Originally Posted by rcduggan

Why the hell would the Mongols want to explore across the ocean in the first place? And also, the Mongols were horsemen, not fishermen.

They wouldn't be just Mongols, they'd be Japanese as well. The idea of further expansion and conquest might implore a hybrid Mongol-Japanese kingdom to explore for the sake of conquest or exploration.

And yes, the Mongols were not fishermen. But the Japanese were. Japanese fishermen under the Mongol Empire could bring Khanate colonies to Alaska.

[MerryPrankster]

The Mongols could get up there to take control of the fur trade or slap down some nomadic peoples who've been raiding them.

Heck, if we want to, we can invent a "Great Man" who unites the Yakuts and other northern peoples and makes things difficult for the Mongols. The Mongols send an army after them and chase them across the frozen Bering Sea into Alaska.

The Mongols could deport troublesome ethnicities and resettle them in Alaska. Think the Assyrians.

[Strategos' Risk]

You can always have fleeing Japanese (and maybe Koreans as well) sailing for the Aleuts, then eventually the Pacific coast of the Americas.

[mimeyo]

Why the hell would the Mongols want to explore across the ocean in the first place? And also, the Mongols were horsemen, not fishermen.

To plunder..

[RalofTyr]

If the Mongols did come into North America in large numbers, they might have exposed the native populations to Eurasian diseases earlier. The survivors would have built up an immunity to them just in time to meet the Europeans.

The history of the Americas would be different if Cortez couldn't conquer Mexico.

It was germs, not guns that conquered the Americas.

[MNP]

ASBs aside, wonder what they would have thought of the Great Plains.

[eschaton]

The easiest way to get Mongols on the Great Plains is if an outward-looking China colonizes the Pacific coast of North America, and then purposely settles Mongols in the hinterlands, either in hopes they'll make a good martial people for protecting the frontier, or simply deporting them from China because they cause too much trouble there.

Still, would require huge PODs to happen.