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#101
April 4th, 2005, 10:42 AM
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The glided radio-controlled bombs were introduced in 1943.
If you are gonna introduce them in 1940 (which is feasible) I suggest you introduce them as a "first" during the France invasion. That way the Brits are kind of surprised by this new development and fail to develop countermeasures in time. If I am not mistaken the glider bombs did work initially well during 1943, but were not as successfull later, when the Allies intoroduced a series of countermeasures against them (jamming). Furthermore they were not dropped at low altitude, but the plane moved towards the target at medium altitude, dropped the bomb, made a turn, while the bomber guided it to it's target. In that way the plane did not overfly the target, thus being not so exposed to small AA fire. I suppose that's the way you want it to be done here. Let's just say that one of the Condors got way too close to the battleship + escorts and got downed for that reason. I always wondered what implications the introduction of such "small" enhancements would have on the war. For example what would have happened in ALL uboats had snorkels from 1939, rather than 1944? 
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#102
April 4th, 2005, 11:37 AM
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"The Hs 293 is the outgrowth of the "Gustav Schwartz Propellerwerke" glide bomb which was first designed in 1939. The further development of the glide bomb by Henschel represents their first attempt at a radio controlled missle. The original Schwartz design was a pure glide bomb guided on a straight course by means of an automatic pilot. The method of attack entailed high altitudes for the carrier aircraft in order that sufficient range could be attained and still be out of antiaircraft fire. Henschel took over the work of further developing this missile in early 1940, and it was decided to use some form of propulsion for the missile so that attacks at low altitude and increased range could be made. The Hs 293 A-1 was the first model to be used operationally with the new motor. The Hs 293 was first used in the Bay of Biscay. Launched by Do 217E-5s of II/KG 100 against destroyers." The Dornier-type mentioned was btw the type that sunk the RM Roma in 1943, but with a Fritz X-missile. To the best of my knowledge there were several types of glider bombs/anti-shipping missiles. Some were apparently wire-guided as well. Quote:
But Sitiku is right, it's because of the umlauts and the use of other similar, eh, characters, I've seen it in a few other threads as well, not just mine btw, but I have no clue what so ever - for once  - why it is so!Anyway, thank you all for commenting! Best regards and all! - Bluenote.
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Honeste vivere, alterum non ladere, suum cuique tribuere!
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#103
April 4th, 2005, 01:39 PM
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A Cold day in Hell
A Cold day in Hell
Pride you took Pride you feel Pride that you felt when you’d kneel Trust you gave A child to save Left you cold and him in grave I see faith in your eyes Never you hear the discouraging lies I hear faith in your cries Broken is the promise, betrayal The healing hand held back by deepened nail Follow the God that failed - Metallica, The God that Failed. Shortest straw Challenge liberty Downed by law Live in infamy Rub you raw Witchhunt riding through Shortest straw This shortest straw has been pulled for you Pulled for you Shortest straw Pulled for you Shortest straw - Metallica, The Shortest Straw.. The sky over Western Europa was not the only place where war reigned supreme in mid-1940, In Finland, the Red Army of Soviet Russia advanced steadily against a more and more desperate Finnish Army. By June, 1940, the Finns were on the ropes and had run out of supplies, ammunition and manpower, while the Red Army were well supplied, armed to the teeth and growing in numbers on a daily basis. Still, the gallant Finns fought on, aided by volunteers from Sweden, Spain, Italy and the US. Both Swden and Italy did their best to supply the Finns with much needed material as well as modern weapons such as anti-tank and anti-aircraft guns. The Italian aid to Finland was a major point of controversy between Hitler and the Italian Duce, Benito Mussolini. Their disagrement actually grew to a point where it soured their otherwise fine personal relationship. It didn’t help, that both Count Ciano and Marshall Balbo were both strongly in favour of an independent and very pro-Finnish, or more correctly anti-Soviet, political stance. It was even rumoured that Ciano, who was Italian Foreign Minister, had recieved some feelers in regards to the Italian position in the Mediterranean from his British colleague around the fall of France in mid-40. On the 14th of June, the Red Army finally came within range of Helsinki, the Finnish capital. The Finnish Army, now basically a broken force, nonetheless dug in and fought suicidally for every street, every house, and every basement. The Red Army soon proclaimed vitory, but the fact was that it took the Soviets a full month to subdue the city, and even then Soviet soldiers had to travel in numbers to be relatively safe. Nor would there be any formal surrender as it was believed that most of the Finnish government died in the ruins of Helsinki along with most of the high command – most notably Marshal Mannerheim himself. Besides, nobody really came forth to negotiate with the Soviets… Hundreds of thousands of civilians and some of the remaining army units from Northern Finland fled to Sweden and Norway after the fall of Helsinki. In Sweden, they were welcomed and placed in refugee camps and generally treated very well, but in German occupied Norway, they were interned and handed back to the Red Army without much ado. The remainders of the Finnish armed forces still in Finland, however, went underground and continued the armed struggle – a struggle generously supplied by Sweden and, whenever possible, the British and Italians. Occupation duty, soon simply known as Bielaja Smertj - the white death -, in Finland would be most Red Army-conscripts worst nightmare for years to come. The outside world, naturally, was quite horrified by the naked Soviet aagression, but equally, if not more, impressed by the tenacity and devotion of the Finns. None more so than the Fascists in Italy. Mussolini, who have just barely avoided getting into the war so far – having been faced with both Ciano and Balbo’s adamant opposition -, was stunned by Hitler’s all to obvious friendship with Stalin and the fiendish Soviet Union. Now Mussolini in earnest began to reconsider Ciano’s hint of a possible agreement with the British – most of Italy’s territotial ambitions lay wihtin the Vichy French colonial sphere anyway. Soon Italian and British diplomats – sometimes modern historians claim that Ciano and Eden actually met in person in Madrid, but this is not substanciated – got together in utmost secrecy in Spain, and hammered out a deal that would forever change the political landscape of the Mediterranean. In early July, the Regia Marina sortied and headed towards the two major Vichy French naval bases in the Mediterranean, Toulon and Oran. Italian ground troops shuffled from east to west in Libya, while the Regio Esercito began to dig in rather ferociously in Northern Italy, and air units redeployed left and right as well. In Tokyo, the German betrayal of Finland to the Soviet Union, as well as the carving up of Poland – a former Japanese partner and near-ally -, prompted some rethinking as well, especially after the British seemed much more accomodating in regards to Japan’s needs…
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Honeste vivere, alterum non ladere, suum cuique tribuere!
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#104
April 4th, 2005, 03:00 PM
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Terror from Above
Terror from Above
You’re children of the damned Your back’s against the wall You turn into the light You’re burning in the night You’re children of the damned Like candles watch them burn Burning in the light You’ll burn again tonight You’re children of the damned - Iron Maiden, Children of the Damned. Still the window burns Time so slowly turns And someone there is sighing Keepers of the flames Can’t you feel your names? Can’t you feel your babies crying? Mama they try and break me - Metallica, Hero of the Day. The performance of the RAF was considered disappointing during Germany's Blitzkrieg assault on the Low Countries and France, to say the very least. The German arms simply seemed unstoppable. By the end of the campaign, the RAF had lost more than 1,200 aircrafts, both fighters and bombers, whereas the German losses, through still painful, were far less, as only some 600 planes were lost in action – losses easily replaced by the finely tuned Luftwaffe production apparatus and training organization. Adding to the British losses were those of its allies; Holland, Belgium and France. All three nations had basically seen their air forces wiped out during Operation Hermann. Some French squadrones had escaped to Britain, though, but after the Franco-German armistice their crews were quickly interned. The French air crews were not the only Frenchmen interned by the distrust- and vengeful British. Some 50 French warships had sought refuge at Plymouth and Portsmouth after the Fall of Metropolitan France. All of said warships were seized rather heavy handedly by the Royal Navy, but in some cases only after overcoming armed French resistance. Not that the British at this point minded teaching the treacherous French a lesson or two… Nor were the French the only ones to suffer the wrath of the British. In mid-June, 1940, Lord Beaverbrook, the Minister for Aircraft Production, was noted to have said; “the sky is the limit (for plane purchases from the USA) as long as we pay up front and in cash!” With spendings running at some £2.5 million per day on aircrafts alone, Lord Halifax found the American merchant-attitude to be ungentleman-like and very distastefull. The cash-for-goods-policy of the United States would do much harm to the US-British relationship, and would in the end lead to Britain’s pro-Japanese foreign policy. Many Brits found that they got used by the American capitalists, who got rich and fat while British soldiers died in drowes and the civil population starved defending freedom and democarcy across the globe. Meanwhile the preliminary phase of Battle of Britain began as Luftwaffe launched a series of attacks on Channel convoys and port facilities from their new bases in France and the Low Countries. The first major air strike were launched at the Swansea docks and at the Royal Ordnance Factory at Pembrey in Wales. Some 70 planes took part with the further aim of tempting RAF’s Fighter Command into battle. In a third attack, the Auxiliary AA ship, HMS Foyle Bank, was sunk in a German air attack on the docks at Portland in Dorset. Due to heavy losses at the hands of the Luftwaffe and KLK, the British was soon forced to suspend all future seaborne traffic in the Channel, and several RN surface vessels were rebased as well. Air Captain Werner Mölders, leader of III/JG 53, and Germany's top ace with some 25 kills to his name, was shot down over the Channel during one of the many clashes between Luftwaffe and RAF Fighter Command in mid-40, and would be recorded as the first pilot to be rescued by the Kriegsmarine’s new Search and Rescue helicopter service. The helicopter was fast becoming a wonder weapon to most Germans. In OKL, however, the Meuse Incident was still painfully clear in memory, and as a result General Student and several helicopter designers were working on armoured and armed helicopters. Ironically, it would be the British that introduced the first so-called gunship when they re-entered the war in ’44. As the first German u-boot base in France were opened at Lorient, Grand Admiral Raeder and his subordinate, u-boot Commander-in-Cheif, Admiral Dönitz, had a series of major arguments regarding the deployment and tactics of the Kriegsmarine’s u-boot arm. Admiral Dönitz wanted his boats to harrash British merchant shipping as in the Great War, whereas Raeder wanted the focus to be solely on warships. In the end, Raeder triumphed, as he was backed by the Luftwaffe and most of OKW as well. Lessons so far had taught the Germans that one cannot terrorize a nation into surrendering, one has to deprive them of the means to defend themselves, and in the case of Britain that meant to hunt down the ships of Royal Navy and sink them, while the ability of the Royal Air Force to defend British air space was destroyed, or at least seriously hampered. “Anyway, if this does not work, one can always try to starve them out!” As Raeder laconically noted to a furious Dönitz. Dönits nonetheless did as ordered. As part of that overall strategy, Luftwaffe and KLK air units deployed to launch a campaign against various RN anchorages, especially the Royal Navy’s primary anchorage at Scapa Flow in the Orkney Islands. All of Luftwaffe’s heavy bombers were shifted to Luftflotte 5’s area of responsibility in Norway and basically used to carpet bomb Scapa Flow, while medium bombers and KLK aircraft were used to hit individual ships. Long range Me-109’s flew escort missions for most of the trip and hoped to catch intercepting RAF fighters, or anything else foolish enough to take to the air. A picket of U-boots were placed near the anchorage, backed up by smaller surface vessels. Besides hoping to slowly wear the Royal Navy down, this tactic served to spread the RAF, and RN, thin as Germany attacked on a multitude of fronts. This would only get worse for the British as the major surface elements of the Kriegsmarine soon sortied… As they got hammered on sea, land and air, the Royal Air Force was finally beginning to understand the power of airborne RADAR and communications, as the Germans quite often simply handled the air battles much, much more effectively than the British. This was be seen all to clearly when the British Big Wing-formation encountered the much loser German formations based on the now rather famouse open finger four-fromation. German commanders simply vectored in more aircraft or lured the British into ambushes set up either by other air units or by ground or sea based FlaK – now quite often RADAR guided. The war was not without German set-backs or losses, though, but generally Wever, Milch and officers at OKL had great faith in their pilots, planes and doctrine, not to mention themselves – history would prove them right, at least for now… Eager to prove itself, and set it itself apart from the failures of Fighter Command – the loss of General Ironside still mared its reputation -, Bomber Command in the summer of 1940 unleashed its strategic air offensive against targets inside Germany, known as the City Bombing-scheme. The first target for City Bombing was Hamburg – a major port city on the North Sea coast. Figures varie, but between 500-600 heavy bombers - Short Sterlings and the new superheavy DeHavilland Manchester - attacked Hamburg and basically destroyed the city as fires swept through the Old Town and among other things set the fuel tanks at the docks ablaze. Later Bremen would be hit as well, but this time the German air defences were ready and on their collective toes, so to say. While damage was extensive, the bomber stream were intercepted repeatedly and almost 100 planes were either shot down or damaged beyond repair. Still, Bomber Command would keep on bombing German civilian targets throughtout the rest of the war. Needless to say, Hitler was furious and demanded direct retaliatory strikes against British cities. Luftwaffe’s commander, General Wever, along with a more cautious Milch, flatly refused and offered to resign. Surprisingly Hitler relented, but now viewed Wever with suspicion – something that would come back to haunt Luftwaffe’s chief before long. The appearence of high flyving and superheavy British bombers would lead the Germans to consider building a new generation of bombers themsleves, that had pressurerized cabins and an even greater bombload - and to speed up Kurt Tank's FW-190 project. At Junkers and Messerschmitt engineers begun to work...
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Honeste vivere, alterum non ladere, suum cuique tribuere!
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#105
April 4th, 2005, 03:34 PM
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Interesting stuff. You might want to consider making Liverpool an important target in night raids. With drop tanks the Luftwaffe can hit most of the Bomber Command bases with escorted raids. If the Luftwaffe is resisting the urge to hit London its wrath can't simply be against Fighter Command so I would see some raids against Bomber Command.
Getting back to torpedo bombing the He111 in its J and some subvariants of the decently armored H variant were used as torpedo bombers. Some Ju88's were easily modified for torpedoes in late 1940. Tom
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#106
April 4th, 2005, 08:20 PM
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Outstanding ATL, can't wait for the next one, I like the policy break with Italy and Germany. I would find it hard for Hitler to support USSR over Finland, in OTL Hitler's undercover support for the Finns, was a major problem with Stalin's generals and KGB, before the attack on Russia. But it would make military sense to wait, and also the increase in material, such as rare metals, oil and other trade goods from USSR, could increase Military spending on Aircraft, Ships, and tanks. And there would be no Two Front War, at this time.
Would like more information on Japanese navel planning in this ATL. Would the IJN increase spending on Naval Aircraft, and build more carriers, and what about Surface Radar for Ships, and Airboune Radar for IJN aircraft? What about U. S. reaction to Germany's "Fat-free Airforce" would they increase fighter production and radar research? What about Germany's relationship with South American nations? What about British problems with India at this time? India Freedom Movement, Street Riots and Labor strikes? Thanks for an Outstanding Timeline.
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#107
April 5th, 2005, 11:30 AM
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Of course, Liverpool needs a good bombing - major port and HQ of Western Approaches, I think, and all that.  And I suppose so do cities with major ship yards, Glasgow, Belfast and what not... Oh, and yes, Bomber Command will find its bases under close scrutiny, so to say, by the Luftwaffe. Simply forgot to mention it in the lats post - will do in the next one - Fine way btw to draw Fighter Command out to play, I' d say. Quote:
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In regards to Finland. Without Göring, Hitler will be a little weaker politically, thus Schacht, who is deadset against war, Funk, who thinks Soviet Russia delivers what it promised - so far - and its help is much needed in way of resources and Borman in the Four Year Office, who for a fact know how important those supplies are for the Wehrmacht and the German society as a whole, is able to restrain Hitler somewhat on the basis of one enemy at a time etc etc. Not to mention the OKW, where one war at a time is something of mantra, I'd suppose. Hitler is thus tied to the Russo-German pact, and considering his temper he'll probably flay anyone who questions him, especially sicne he don't much like his actions himself... Regarding the Italo-German political disagrement. As I see it, the Allies more or less can blame themselves for Italy ending up in Hitler's arms so to say. In this ATL, the flow of coal is not interupted, thus the Italians are not royally pissed at the Brits, or feel that they have to go to war to survive, nor are Mussolini (and his ego) ignored as the Brits feel unable to fight yet another enemy at this time. Furthermore Mussolini will look at Germany with envy, and the Fascisti has historically seen the French as the enemy, not the British. All in all, it's a bit far fetched, but not that implausible, and it's a bit more fun that just another rerun of OTL's WW2, I hope! Quote:
I think the Japanese might pop up now and again in future installments...  Quote:
 Anyway, good question, Orion. Even without the war the US will rearm, of course, but far from as fast as OTL. I suppose they'll be committed to battleships and associated doctrines for along time, but the absolute necessity for air superiority will not be a lesson lost on the Americans, whether they can get funding for an vastly increased fighter force, that's another question as the economy will not grow as in OTL. Besides, without actuall combat and the British to teach them, the US will probably be a giant on clay feet for a long time in regards to a modern military...Quote:
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).Thank you for your comments... And now, once more, off the read Opr.Unicorn... Best regards and all! - Bluenote.
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Honeste vivere, alterum non ladere, suum cuique tribuere!
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#108
April 5th, 2005, 04:00 PM
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Germany had a large commerical organization in South American before the War in OTL, so they would have more trade and income from the South American Counties, trade would have to come into Germany from Neutral Nations, such as Portural, Spain, Romania and Turkey. Germany could sell some of the late model Aircraft to certain South American Nations. It would have Germany with a increase in power in certain South American Nations. This would cause problems with U.S. and their relationship with South American countries. More German agents working in South American countries could mean some big problems for British and American security plans.
I don't know if the following items could work in this TL: 1. Airforce Bases in South American Nations, they would start as commerical airfields. This would increase range of patrol planes, allow for more attack from Uboats. 2. Sell surface ships to South American Nations. 3. Close the Panama Canal or have a major incident with a tanker from a third party Nation. Great Time Line, thanks for the reply, hope you like the infomation and ideas.
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#109
April 10th, 2005, 10:37 AM
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And Battle is Joined…
And Battle is Joined…
Things are not what they used to be Missing one inside of me Deathly lost, this can’t be real Cannot stand this hell I feel Emptiness is filling me To the point of agony Growing darkness taking dawn I was me, but now he’s gone No one but me can save myself, but it’s too late Now I can’t think, think why I should even try Yesterday seems as though it never existed Death greets me warm, now I will just say good-bye - Metallica, Fade to Black The horsemen are drawing nearer On the leather steeds they ride They have come to take your life On through the dead of night With the four horsemen ride Or choose your fate and die - Metallica, The Four Horsemen. Britain was almost completely surrounded by Germany in the summer of 1940. Luftflotte 5 – the 5th Air Fleet - was based in Norway with its headquarter at Stavanger. Luftflotte 2 had bases all over Northern France and the low Countries with tis headquarter at Brussels. Finally Luftflotte 3 occupied bases in the rest of France with their headquarters set up in Paris. A German Luftflotte controlled both fighters and bombers in combined operations, and made ectensive use of combined operations, where bomber lured the RAF into action and fighters were thus vectored in by command and control aircraft or actually guided by RADAR-equied Dorniers or ground stations. In addition to Luftwaffe’s already impressive display of power, the German Kriegmarine’s air arm – KLK – had units based at Narvik, Trondheim and Ghent, that took part in the mayhem by round the clock anti-shipping operations. To top things off, German naval vessels, be it the dreaded u-boots or surface vessels of some kind made Britain lifeline even more precarious. Britain was indeed surrounded… Since the old warhorse, the He-111, was slowly being phased out by the Luftwaffe, one of the Heinkel factories began to produce a variant solely for Kreigmarine use - the torpedo carrying He-111K – and two staffel of H-111J’s were converted into torpedo bombers. This gave the KLK and even bigger punch. Furthermore the production of Gustav Schwartz Propellerwerke’s rocket assisted anti-ship glide bomb, the Gustav XX was given priority as the first use had proven so effective – sinking the battleship HMS Warspite. Luftwaffe also began to explore the possibily of a rocket assisted glide bomb, or just a remote controlled unassisted glide bomb, for their own use – such a weapon would be a exellent weapon of choice should one need to destroy a bridge or perhaps one single house without resorting to British tactics – after the City Bombing operations had begun anything involving large amount of bombs dropped from many planes were suddenly “British tactics” – Guernica had somehow been forgotten, it seemed. As mentioned the Germans started what was to be known as the Battle of Britain with heavy attacks on Channel traffic, ports and linked infrastructure, later the German also began to raid deeper and deeper inland. It seemed that the German were intent on detroying the Royal Navy’s capacity to use and ultimately defend the Channel. Furthermore, Luftwaffe planners hoped to lure the RAF into a running attritional battle for control of the skies over Britain. Up north, Luftflotte 5 and KLK units continued to bomb Scapa Flow and intercept traffic to and from the RN anchorage. While the British air defences were quite strong, the nearly round-the-clock attacks took their toll and casualties mounted, especially since RAF fighters were few and far between, need as they were in Southern Britain. Extensive German mining operations also took place. Furthermore various Kriegsmarine units began to appear in the hope of either actually engaging RN units or at least to lure them out in the open where eihter air units or u-boots could get at them. The British unwillingness to fight under hostile skies, so to say, prompted the OKM to begin assembling their major surface units for a major offensive, and to force the sea trials of KM Hermann Göring… The Battle of Britain now begin in earnest with an intense air battle over the Dover, as 400 German planes of various sorts strike the port city. RAF Hawker Hurricanes, among them the newest models with increased enginepower and a heavier armament, intercepts and are soon engaged in a life and death struggle with their arch-nemesis, the Me-109’s. The British claim some 60 Luftwaffe planes down for the loss of 26 RAF fighters. In reality, only 30 Luftwaffe planes, including a few unlucky bombers, were shot down, while the RAF had lost 39 planes, mostly fighters. Because of RAF’s Bomber Commands attacks on German cities, Luftwaffe decides to shift their focus sligtly and try to hamper Bomber Commands activities by attacking their airfields, facilities and bomber producing factories. However, even under growing pressure from Luftwaffe, Bomber Command continued to strike back. The Short Sterling proved quite deadly, but suffered great losses to German interceptors and FlaK – especially the new RADAR guided 105mm and older 88mm, the Germans began fielding in large numbers, made a rather bloody impact on the bomber streams heading into Germany. Another plane that would lead its mark on air warfare, the superheavy DeHavilland Manchester, also saw action around this time. The DeHavilland Manchester was a four-engine super heavy bomber and for a long time – until the Bristol York and the DeHavilland Lancaster in the 50’s and 60’s – the worldest largets bomber, and among the largest planes ever flown. When the Manchester entered service, it was one of the most advanced bombers of its time, featuring innovations such as a pressurized cabin, a central fire-control system, and remote-controlled machinegun turrets. It was designed to be a high altitude daytime bomber and proved rather successful at this. It was without doubt the most succssfull bomber used by RAF’s bomber Command during the ’39-’40 War, but is probably best known for carrying the nuclear weapons used to destroy Nuremberg, Koln and Desden, thus endeing the War in 1947. Unlike many other bombers, the Manchester remained in service long after the War. By the time it was replaced by Bristol’s York in the 1950’s, some 2,000 Manchesters had been built all in all. Just outside Krakow, a newly promoted Oberst Werner Mölders are introduced to his new command, and said commands new planes: the FW-190. Because of British bombing, the FW-190’s development were pushed forth with all haste and sufficient models are now ready for training purposses. OKL has, on Hitler’s order, gathered a selection of Germany’s best pilots for training on the new aircraft. Oberst Mölders, with a broken leg and strained wrist after his bath in the Channel, was to command the first unit in training. Da,mages that by the way do not stop the young ace from taking his plane up for a flight on his first day a Krakwo. “It’s like flying like an angel, an angle of death!” his is later reported to have said. In the years to come, Mölders will become Germany's youngest general, and eventuelly end up as Commander of Germany’s air defences.
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Honeste vivere, alterum non ladere, suum cuique tribuere!
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#110
April 10th, 2005, 11:14 AM
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I don't know whether or not the Germans will mess much about in the Americas. if the US keep its head down and don't make to much noise, I suppose the Germans will do the same - no need to provoke the giant and all that! Rather annoyingly I have lost most of the ATL's outline (my computer did a good imitation of a total crash), so I'll have to rewrite it all from scratch - and that might take some time, but updates will come, nay worries! I'm currently working on "Meanwhile Elsewhere" that deals with the Med and Far East! Do anyone btw know if British R-R engines would have fitted in Italian planes? Best regards! - Mr.Bluenote.
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Honeste vivere, alterum non ladere, suum cuique tribuere!
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#111
April 10th, 2005, 06:49 PM
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Great TL, I like the part about Germany destroying British ability to use the English Channel, or they Sea Ports, I can't wait to see major surface fleet action with the new Fat-Free German Airforces and the Super-sized Naval Airforces.
Would like to know if Spain and Italy will have increase the amount of spending on Fighter production or imports? Does France receive any additional benefits from Germany in this TimeLine for additional support of Germany foreign Policy, after the problems with her former parter Britian? The British R-R Aircraft Engine, The Merlin II Engine, used in the Hawker Hurricanes Mk 1, had a V-12 1030 HP engine, Liguid cooled. The Italian Macchi MC. 202 "Folgore" was modified in OTL to take the 1075 Daimler-Benz DB601A aircraft engine, same engine in the Messerschmitt BF109A. I think they could have modified it to have a Merlin II Engine, but would still need to work out some design problems. Italian Aircraft had major problems with weapons/arsenal they were very lightly armed, and were no match for any major European Counterparts. Could Italy in this ATL, (since the break with Germany) purchase from US some modern Transport planes, such as DC 3, would be useful in any war with a Neighbor. Would also quick start Italy modern aircraft production factorys. Thank you, for a great TimeLine.
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#112
April 10th, 2005, 09:30 PM
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The German fleet will sortie in the installment after "Meanwhile Elsewhere" and considering my lack of sea related knowledge, I'm not sure how that's going to end; KLK and Luftwaffe along with u-boots are hammering the RN, while KM-ships are sinking left and right?! The KLK is not supersized as such, Orion - they have, what, some 2-300 planes?! I just wanted the Germans to have pilots trained and planes equipped for naval warfare and an earlier development of RADAR and associated technology, so some kind of naval air arm seemed the way to go! I see Göring's resistance to anyone else having flying toys than his Luftwaffe as a major hindrance for the Germans in amongst other the BoB. Quote:
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Best regards! - B.
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Honeste vivere, alterum non ladere, suum cuique tribuere!
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#113
April 10th, 2005, 11:51 PM
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ECM vs ECCM
Interesting stuff. Need to think some of this over, but my spur of the moment reaction:
1] Fritz-X had its season of success OTL but before too long was defeated by jamming. You have enough time for the Luftwaffe to come back with ECCM (which they never did OTL) such as new radio frequencies, blah and that in turn will lead to another cycle of Allied adaptation. There is a going to be a significant period where it is not effective. One morale to this story: don't scrap your torpedo bombers. 2] Speaking of ECM, I don't see mention of knickebein or X-Gerat. The problem in our TL was Goering favored day bombing but not absolutely and so knickebein was used in dribs and drabs and the British found out how to neutralize it. There is no reason all the medium and heavy bombers could not be knickebein equipped allowing for some very destructive night raids before the inevitable RAF countermeasures kick in. X-Gerat requires highly trained crews and very special equipment and so there was the pathfinder tactic that they would hit the target with some thermite bombs and then the Ordinary Joes would look for the fires. 3] I am warning you now that I am very pessimistic about German carriers. It took Britain, Japan and America a long time to get the hang of carrier operations. I don't buy the Nazi's yell Shazam and turn into Kido Butai. One additional fact is the Bf 109 had lousy ground handling (because the wheels came off the fuselage and not the thin wings). Imagine what they are going to do on a carrier flight deck. Tom
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#114
April 11th, 2005, 10:55 AM
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Don't worry, Tom - I'm not gonna have the KM Göring operational - it will be used as bait... After having reread the last installment, I see that I've made a number of ugly typos (again) - sorry about that!  Best regards! - B.
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Honeste vivere, alterum non ladere, suum cuique tribuere!
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#115
April 11th, 2005, 02:15 PM
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Night bombing
You can have the older medium bombers assigned to night bombing with knickebein. You should make allowance for the RAF technical people to figure it out and counter it so there would be a 2-3 period they are dropping bombs on wasteland but I would think it would still net out to an advantage.
Mines: The Germans dreamt up all 3 major types of "influence" (as opposed to contact) mines rather early. The magnetic mine is well known. It caused the RN a lot of grief and their countermeasures were given a big boost when some were airdropped on a sandbar exposed at low tide. If their deployment was delayed and then used en masse at a key point a greater attrition of warships would occur (though maybe a little less merchantmen). The Germans did start deploying a limited production of acoustic mines in Oct 1940 IIRC. If that could be moved up a little in both time and quantity that would be helpful. Lastly--and this is the one you need to be careful about--there is the hydrostatic pressure mine. The Germans developed this one indepemdently but were scared to use it because they could not figure out any possible counter and foresaw the British eventually copying it and dropping it in their waterways. They eventually did deploy some to guard some French beaches in 1944 and it caused the Allies considerable grief for a while. Interesting the British did develop this one themselves independently early in the war and were even more scared to use it for exactly the same reasons as the Germans. Tom
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#120
April 29th, 2005, 10:57 AM
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Thanks to Mr Bluenote (did that come from Harold Melvyn and the ... by the way) for a brilliant alternative saga.
I don't know why but I have always been a complete WW2 aircraft nut. I made the model kits. I read the books - John Killen's the Luftwaffe was my favorite. Martin Middlebrook is brilliant on the Bomber War. When I was about 11, I did a "what if the US had not got the A-bomb" scenario with a friend of mine including loads of new Japanese and Allied Aircraft types with pictures. I have also looked at Aviation blunders such as the Short Stirling having an inadequate wing span; the Lancaster not having under belly armament or why it was not fitted with cannons and think about redesigns all the time. Of course this is all hindsight and war is about a compromise of production and design quality and the overall design of the Lancaster was excellent. Thinking about Mr Bluenote's saga and where it will go next here are some suggestions. The RAF Night Bombers are taking heavy losses but they are destroying major sections of cities including housing because the technology does not exist for precision bombing. There is mounting fury in the German population and Hitler orders SeaLion to go ahead despite not having achieved air superiority. In what is to be remembered as the "Battle of the Channel" their finest hour, the invasion force is intercepted by a virtually suicidal attack by the RAF heavies in daylight and RN. The Me109 reigns supreme and that one day 250 Stirlings are shot down. The force is shepherded by U boats who inflict equally dreadful casualties on the Royal Navy. The Bismark is used in a suicide attack which results in its destruction, but the RN is unable to engage the main force. 20,000 of the initial force of 50,000 men are lost but they establish a bridgehead on Kent after Paratroops lead the way. Chamberlain gives the order to bomb Dover and the RAF attack with terrible civilian casualties but no noticable effect on the invasion. The Luftwaffe hold air superiority because English fighter production had never been enough to properly defend her skies. Another 100,000 men and two Panzer Divisions are due for embarcation, but the channel weather intervenes on behalf of the British. The RAF launches a low level night time attack in appalling weather that decimates the embarcation force but brings the bomber force to its knees. Hitler is impressed by the British and remarks that he considers the British of the same racial stock as the Germans and we should not be enemies. Some tanks reach the Bridgehead, but without overwhelming numerical superiority they find themselves drawn into an infantry war as the British themselves have no armour; they left it at Dunkirk. They retreat to the "Kent Line" virtually a series of first world war trenches. Meanwhile the British operating from Northern Ireland (away from the daytime attentions of the Me109) have found a way to carry out night time tactical bombing. Flares are used to mark the concentrations of the enemy by small aircraft or french agents and the heavies follow up. German airpower is used to terrifying effect against the cities of the UK, but does not break morale. Hitler cannot believe that the Channel weather can be so disruptive. Without armour he cannot move beyond the Kent line. He knows the weather will break soon and it will all be over for the British, but other greedy eyes are regarding the fight and looking to take advantage of it. The German agents were not successful in placing the doubts in Stalin's mind about his generals so the purge to weaken the Soviet Army has not happened. Stalin no longer sups the Vodka; a gastric disorder means he cannot keep it down. More sharp of mind he sees a clash with Hitler as inevitable and what better time to launch an attack in somebodies backyard as when he is away fighting someone else. The same German agents within the Soviet army warn Hitler of a massive build up. He starts to move units away from the West to defend the Homelands. He knows there is no way to win a war on two fronts and so he must make peace with the British. But on what terms? Ribbentrop reports back from London. Their intelligence is poor they know nothing of events in Russia. He asks Hitler if they can keep their empire. Hitler laughs because he knows he has saved himself. The British still had Gibralter. The Germans now had their own Gibralter: Kent. It remained an occupied region as part of the peace treaty as Hitler knew they would do nothing with a ready made bridgehead that could be used against them. There would be no further interference in British affairs. They could retain their army, but there was no freedom of movement for their airforce or navy in Europe. Got a bit carried away there! This is a very addictive activity. I am not trying to hijack your thread just hoping this will get your ideas flowing.
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