Go Back   Alternate History Discussion Board > Discussion > Alternate History Books and Media

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old February 7th, 2004, 05:31 AM
Melvin Loh Melvin Loh is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Darwin, NT, Australia
Posts: 1000 or more
UNDERCOVER TALES OF WWII

Has anybody read this book about the most astounding secrets of WWII ? It's got some interesting WI speculations, such as WI the Allies hadn't decided on the 'unconditional surrender' policy against Nazi Germany, which might've enabled US and British forces to wade ashore at Normandy unopposed and greeted as friends by Rommel (a bit farfetched, IMHO, to say the least). I think there was also a subsequent title called BAFFLING or UNSOLVED MYSTERIES OF WWII, which discusses such unsolved aspects of the conflict as why Reinhard Heydrich was allowed to achieve such a high rank within the SS despite his proven Jewish blood, and what happened to such ppl who disappeared mysteriously as Glenn Miller and his band over the English channel, the crew of the B24 Liberator LADY BE GOOD over the Libyan desert, and Gen Bull Kierans of the 82nd Airborne who vanished without trace during the invasion of Sicily IIRC.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old February 7th, 2004, 06:09 AM
Prunesquallor Prunesquallor is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 841
I never bother with any book which has a title like "Astounding Secrets" or "Baffling Mysteries." The writer is always under pressure to sensationalise. Books have been written demolishing "space gods" or the Bermuda Triangle- and these sell a fraction of the copies of those produced by ostensible believers. Heydrich had proven Jewish blood? According to Padfield in his biography of Himmler, all this boiled down to was that his widowed grandmother had married a mann called Suss, frequently a Jewish name (remember your Feuchtwanger.)
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old February 7th, 2004, 03:21 PM
NapoleonXIV NapoleonXIV is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: America, Home of the fee and the knave
Posts: 1000 or more
Hitler himself may have been one quarter Jew
http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a3_325b.html
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old February 8th, 2004, 02:55 AM
wkwillis wkwillis is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: varied
Posts: 1000 or more
Unconditional Surrender in WWII

If WWII had ended in 1944, we would have had to fight WWIII in 1965. With nukes. Germany had to learn not to invade other countries the hard way. A 1944 ending would have been WWI over again for the civilian leadership of Germany, a war with all the suffering done by other people, like the young German men in the army, and the civilians in other countries that Germany had occupied or invaded.
Lots of reactionary traitors in other countries would have liked just that. It's always graveled the ruling class that they lost out almost as much as the poor did in WWII. They prefer that the poor and working class people do the suffering and they get the benefits. Sharing the pain is not what they believe in.
A nuclear war will kill everybody, especially older people who can't work growing food, cutting down wood for fuel and housing, or digging up landfills for repairable stuff. They sort of understand that they won't be rich after a nuclear war. Sort of. Which is probably why they haven't arranged for us to fight one, yet.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old February 8th, 2004, 03:56 AM
MerryPrankster MerryPrankster is online now
Kicked
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1000 or more
"If WWII had ended in 1944, we would have had to fight WWIII in 1965. With nukes. Germany had to learn not to invade other countries the hard way."

Please WK. The notion that WWI and WWII are exclusively the fault of EEVIL Germany is rather specious. Most of the people who believe that either ignorant of the situation and events leading up to the wars or have grudges against Germany for faults real and imagined and have let their anger (justified or not) consume them and blind them to rationality.

"Lots of reactionary traitors in other countries would have liked just that."

Or perhaps lots of people who wanted to save lives and end suffering on both sides, unlike "chickenhawk" (FDR, Morganthau, and Wallace didn't serve in WWI) leftist idealogues with megalomaniacal visions of remaking the entire world New Deal-style like some Bushite ideologues want to remake the Middle East and uncaring about the human costs involved (Morganthau, when informed that his deindustrialization scheme would starve 20 million Germans, essentially replied that he didn't care; Wallace wanted to use Germans as slave labor for Tennessee Valley Authority projects in the Congo).

Read "The New Dealer's War." The similarities between FDR's people, the folks who got the US involved in Vietnam, and today's "neo-cons" are stunning.

Your view that WWII is a Holy War, those who opposed either the war outright or waging the war FDR's way are traitors (not just incorrect, but actively conniving with the enemy), and the Cold War was not only unnecessary but also a justified reason for the US being nuked by terrorists today (expressed numerous times on the old board) seems more appropriate for someone like William Blum (socialist author of "Killing Hope" who thinks that the Cold War was really a US attempt to rule the world).
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old February 8th, 2004, 04:18 AM
Gedca Gedca is offline
Look over there.
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 251
Here's an intersting site: http://search.boston.com/globe/natio...y/index1.shtml
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old February 8th, 2004, 06:06 AM
wkwillis wkwillis is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: varied
Posts: 1000 or more
Tennessee Valley Authority projects in the Congo

Wallace? You mean the left wing vice president Wallace, not the right wing populist Governor Wallace? VP Wallace made his money in tech by developing corn breeding technology to improve corn yields. Got very rich. Techs wouldn't try using European slave labor in the Congo.
Hell, when the right wing types tried using slave labor in the Congo just twenty five years earlier, the slaves all died. It's hell trying to make a profit when you have to keep replacing your slave labor force every three months. God knows how long the Germans would have lasted, but it wouldn't have been as long as the Africans did. Not very practical.
The Russians used ten million German and collaborationist slave laborers in Siberia and even in that much less disease ridden environment more than half of them died before their ten years was up. The Congo just wasn't a reasonable use of European labor. Now if you said that there was some secret liberal plan to send them to Alaska I might believe it...
After WWI we paid them reparations to strengthen them against the Bolshevik menace. They killed fifty million people. After WWII we took almost 20% of their land and occupied them for a generation. They haven't tried to conquer the world since.
Makes you wonder what the Arabs have planned for us...Or those other people mentioned in 'Killing Hope'.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old February 8th, 2004, 06:21 AM
wkwillis wkwillis is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: varied
Posts: 1000 or more
Good site with excerpts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gedca
Very interesting. I just read the part about Kolbe. I'd heard about Rosbaud, 'The Griffon'.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old February 8th, 2004, 08:26 AM
Prunesquallor Prunesquallor is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 841
NXIV- Never, ever, point someone in the direction of a site called STRAIGHTDOPE. It has a certain ring of "Honest Fred the Bookie" about it. Anyway the question of Hitler's ancestry is discussed in volume one of Kershaw's biography which must now rank as standard. He doesn't believe the story.

On the spur of the moment I can only think of one "secret" of WWII that might interest me- Butler's actions in 1940.

Incidentally, discussion of "unconditional surrender" is usually code for "we should have made a deal with Germany."
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 01:01 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.