DBWI: Muslim Iran

[Thande]

What if the Arabs had succeeded in conquering Persia after the Levant and Mesopotamia? Would Persia have become a Muslim state, officially at least? Would it have been absorbed into the Caliphate? Or would it simply be a temporary period of occupation that swiftly fades into the history books, like the various groups to conquer China throughout the ages?

[Admiral Brown]

I don't think Zoroastriam would have suffered a fate similar to the one of Christianity in North Africa. It was an old faith, very widespread, and asociated with Persia from its very begining. It's an essential part of the country's identity.

Remember what happened when King Yazdegerd VI converted to Christianity in the VIII century: the people rebelled and deposed him. It was unwise, because if he Persia had become Christian then, an alliance between Persia and the Romans against the Caliphate would have been established. But, instead, The Arabs were able to play the traditional Constantinople-Ctesiphon against both kindom, and use this to expand westwards.

(Ooc: According to wikipedia, Ctesiphon was the capital of Sassanid Persia. I had never heard of it)

[Philip]

Originally Posted by Admiral Brown

I don't think Zoroastriam would have suffered a fate similar to the one of Christianity in North Africa. It was an old faith, very widespread, and asociated with Persia from its very begining. It's an essential part of the country's identity.

I think you are correct. When the Sassanids were conquered by the Kipchaks, the Kipchaks were quick to adopt Persia culture, including Zoroastrianism. After a generation, it was hard to tell that there was an invasion.

Maybe if the Muslims had taken Persia, they would have resisted the Turkic invasions and not lost Palestine and Arabia. I wonder it the Christians would have still launched the Grand Crusade to free Palestine if it had remained in Muslim hands. After all, the alliance between Roman Pope and the Cordoban Caliph was barely able to liberate Egypt, Palestine and Hijaz.

Originally Posted by Admiral Brown

But, instead, The Arabs were able to play the traditional Constantinople-Ctesiphon against both kindom, and use this to expand westwards.

Don't forget that the capital of Persia was moved back to Istakhr after Mesopotamia was taken.

[Johnrankins]

I think that it is very harder to imagine Iranians being anything but Zoroastrites.

[Nicole]

If Mesopotamia was conquered in the initial outsurge, it probably would have been overrun by Arabs and be more majority-Arab today, instead of being the volatile ethnic mix the modern Iranian Empire has so much trouble with.

The Arabs in this scenario would probably have less to throw at the Romanian Empire, so maybe they're able to maintain control over Anatolia? (Constantinople is not going to fall in any case, but still) That would have huge effects on a lot of things... the Romanians may not have reconquered Eastern Europe as much as they did, for one thing, being more focused on the East.

[Keenir]

Originally Posted by Johnrankins

I think that it is very harder to imagine Iranians being anything but Zoroastrites.

maybe,

I mean, didn't one claimant to the throne (I forget his name, but he had a lot of popular support among his army and his main cities) want to make Iran a Christian-ruled nation of Zoroastrites? (on the logic, I think, that that'd nearly happened in the past*)

...only for him to get killed by either his sister or his female cousin.


OOC: * = yes in OTL.

[danielb1]

There's two real long-term consequences of an Islamic conquest of Persia:

- Islamic culture. I think that, if they took and held Persia for centuries, the Arab/Islamic conquerors would manage to succeed at establishing Islam as a major if not dominant faith, at least among the elite. However, they could not help but be strongly influenced by Persian culture. As it was OTL, Islamic culture has been VERY strongly influenced by Byzantine culture - much Islamic art was derived from Greek, Roman, and/or or Jewish styles,

- India. Islam largely limited its expansion - at least conquest-wise - to the Levant, parts of Asia Minor, and Africa, with a few forays into Southern Europe, mostly in Iberia and Sicily. In OTL, a small but significant Islamic population exists in the Indian coastal cities due to the prominence of the Indian Ocean trade route, or from travellers heading east through Persia, and from the occasional missionaries. If Persia were conquered by the early muslims, its possible that they would go further and cross the Indus, into northern/western India, making the religious situation further convoluted (as if the Hindus, Buddhists, Jains, and the occasional converts from Christian or Muslim missionaries weren't complicated enough...). This ight also speed the spread of ideas between India and the West - in OTL it took many centuries before Indian numerals were adopted as widespread, first spreading to Persia, then into Asia Minor thanks to the semi-Farsified Kuiunlu Turks, then from there into Europe during the late Renaissance.... an Arabic conquest in India might spread the ideas much sooner...

(OOC: this TL probably uses a different number system than OTL, "Indian" numerals having evolved somewhat via Arabic... the original Indian numerals are, courtesy of Wikipedia:
० १ २ ३ ४ ५ ६ ७ ८ ९).