Russian North America

[Sir John A.]

What if there was a strong Russian presence in North America, one that would probably extend to Western Canada and California? Would the Russians there form remain part of the Empire or would they form their own country? How would they interact with their neighbors, the Native Americans, the British, the U.S. and the Spanish/Mexicans?

[Max Sinister]

When's the POD?

[Sir John A.]

Before 1800 probably.

[Max Sinister]

Well, in my Chaos TL (POD 1200) Russia expands earlier and owns a bigger part of the US.

Their problem: In the west of North America, you soon hit the Rockies. Not as much fertile land as in the east. So they'll always get the shorter end of the stick.

[Grey Wolf]

Originally Posted by Max Sinister

Well, in my Chaos TL (POD 1200) Russia expands earlier and owns a bigger part of the US.

Their problem: In the west of North America, you soon hit the Rockies. Not as much fertile land as in the east. So they'll always get the shorter end of the stick.

The Rockies do form a good border/barrier though and you can end up with Alaska-Oregon-California as a whole side of the continent, protected by fortresses at the main passes through the Rockies, and co-opting Indians such as the Nez Perce to do the actual patrolling of the rest.

I've done this in two different timelines, one that led to the story that would have been "Tongues Of Flame" if I had the energy to type up so many notebooks, and one that led to the story that ended up space-faring science fiction that I wrote during the first part of last year.

In the latter, Kalifornia becomes the name for this Russian entity and eventually breaks away from Russia and forms its own independent empire under a cadet branch of the Romanovs

Best Regards
Grey Wolf

[Dutchie]

Unlikely... just too far from home.

The Russians were able to laim claim to N/E Eurasia because no one else bothered to, not because they were able to extensively settle it. Only some key strategic places were settled, and that only marginally - Vladivistok was actually ceeded by the Chinese, not settled.

Without a Rus Far East population to provide the base of settlers to jump the new world, I don't think they could do it. They did claim large parts of the American West Coast OTL, but there was no one way they could back those claims up.

[Homer]

Originally Posted by Dutchie

Without a Rus Far East population to provide the base of settlers to jump the new world, I don't think they could do it. They did claim large parts of the American West Coast OTL, but there was no one way they could back those claims up.

That's it. They'd need settlers there, and IOTL they'd rather send them to Siberia and not to the Americas. If they attract foreign settlers, you'd sooner or later have the situation that the Russian domains in North America demand annexation by Britain or the US to avoid Russian rulership.

[Sgt Detritus]

Originally Posted by Grey Wolf

In the latter, Kalifornia becomes the name for this Russian entity and eventually breaks away from Russia and forms its own independent empire under a cadet branch of the Romanovs

Best Regards
Grey Wolf

Either that or in the course of a Civil War have it become a Socialist republic or the last remnant of the Empire

[Sgt Detritus]

Have the Russian keep hold of Fort Ross and make it a penal colony of some sort where a the major Decembrist conspirators such as Trubetskoy are sent

Thus over the years California may become a Russian equivalent of Australia

[Dutchie]

Originally Posted by Sgt Detritus

Have the Russian keep hold of Fort Ross and make it a penal colony of some sort where a the major Decembrist conspirators such as Trubetskoy are sent

Thus over the years California may become a Russian equivalent of Australia

They already had that - it was called Siberia.