Louis XIV Conquers Holland

[Faeelin]

In 1672, France and England launched a war against the Netherlands, which would have had disastrous consequences for the Netherlands if it had lost.


"The Republic was to cede to the King of France not merely (Brabant and Flanders), but all the territories he had conquered: in effect the three land provinces of Gelderland, Overijssel, and Utrecht. Dutch fortified garrisons were to be dismantled and French ones to take their place. Economic aims were to be satisfied with the rescinding of any retaliatory tariffs imposed since 1667 and an indemnity so susbstantial as to make the Duthc more or less pay for their own chastisement.

French subjects were to be permitted to travel at will through the Republic, in effect subject to no jurisdiction save that of their own king. The Catholic religion was not merely to be toelrated, but priests were to be at the public charge. The truncated Republic was itself to be a proclamation of future dependence, but the cantonment of French troops at Maastricht and Grave, and the adjency of an enormously aggrandized monarchy, was its iron guarantee."

"What was left of the Republic was to be a much altered dominion. Rendered inoffensive, it was projected as a cross between a serviceable bankign state along the lines of Genoa, and a pumpernickel principality like Hanover."[1]

Suppose the French had managed to overrun the Netherlands in 1672, and enforce these terms?

I imagine that this means that Louis XIV is pretty much unstoppable; any thoughts?



[1]From The Embarrassment of Riches, by Simon Schama.

[Max Sinister]

If the Dutch had agreed to that, Louis could've invaded them anytime and taken the rest too. No wonder they didn't agree.

[Faeelin]

Originally Posted by Max Sinister

If the Dutch had agreed to that, Louis could've invaded them anytime and taken the rest too. No wonder they didn't agree.

True; but by the time these terms were proposed, the Dutch seemed like they had been defeated; he'd overran the southern Netherlands; he'd everything but Holland and Frisia.

Of course, the English thought that they would receive the rest of the Netherlands in the peace treaty; but I think we know how unlikely this is.

[Max Sinister]

And Holland was the most important part, then even more than now. Could well be that it'd be even more important than the rest put together. No, I can rather see the Dutch destroy the right dikes to cut off Holland from the continent as they had planned in WW2.

[Dr Pervez Hoodbhoy]

Originally Posted by Faeelin

In 1672, France and England launched a war against France, which would have had disastrous consequences for the Netherlands if it had lost.

So the Dutch could have lost a war that France fought with itself and they weren't even involved in? Interesting.

Originally Posted by Faeelin

"The Republic was to cede to the King of France not merely (Brabant and Flanders)

Flanders and the larger part of Brabant were Spanish.

[Faeelin]

Originally Posted by VoCSe

Flanders and the larger part of Brabant were Spanish.

Yes; the treaty would have required the Dutch conceding that the French could take those provinces from Spain, who was incapable of defending them.

[Faeelin]

Originally Posted by VoCSe

Flanders and the larger part of Brabant were Spanish.

There was part of Flanders part of the Netherlands, BTW; the territory south of the Scheldt.

[Dr Pervez Hoodbhoy]

Originally Posted by Faeelin

There was part of Flanders part of the Netherlands, BTW; the territory south of the Scheldt.

If I remember my geography, and I think I do, most of Flanders is south of the Scheldt. It's the river that passes through Antwerp, right? Maybe you mean north of the Scheldt, or you're refering to that small area south of the estuary now attached to Zeeland (don't know if it was Dutch in the 17th century).

Of course we're talking about modern Flanders, which is Belgium without Wallonia and Brussels. Historic Flanders did not include the modern Belgian province of Antwerp, which was part of historic Brabant.

Back on topic, I don't know if Charles II was so fully in Louie's pocket AND so stupid as to allow him to take Flanders. He'd be so well-placed for any potential invasion of England that he'd be able to order him around using threats more than money.

[Anthony Appleyard]

Britain would send an army in and chuck Louis out.

[fhaessig]

Originally Posted by Anthony Appleyard

Britain would send an army in and chuck Louis out.

Get serious.

Louis will do as Bismarck threatened to.

[Faeelin]

Originally Posted by Anthony Appleyard

Britain would send an army in and chuck Louis out.

The Stuarts had decided, by this point, that to develop an absolute monarchy, they'd be a French client.

They were a French ally in the war.

So this seems unlikely.